"[Religion] has been founded in city X!" NO! NOT THAT CITY!

[DrJambo]

It's just another aspect of a flawed game concept, unfortunately.

This is a bit of a sweeping generalisation. I don't see many flawed game concepts in cIV. Maybe in Civ 3.

If it turns up in one of your peripheral cities, then just adapt and work on improving the gold in that city. There's plenty one can do to improve things - grocers, markets, banks, wall street....

Plus, for me, the problem isn't so much where the religion is founded, but more trying to get that first Great Prophet out, particularly for the later religions when you might have a few Wonders already which are producing GPPs for the other specialists!

 

[warpus]

So what I end up doing is spend an hour or more reloading the damn saves and try to alter the random seed. This is simply an unneccesary waste of time, and I don't consider it cheating. Please give me the option to choose the founding city.

of course it's cheating.

it's like reloading your saves to alter the seeds so that you have a better chance of taking a city, for example.

some things are simply beyond your control - accept it.

 

[Peter Deprez]

I think the Holy City is determined in yet another way. I'll try to describe.
Let's say you are playing the Japanese and you have 35 science points (SP) to go to discover the advance for let's say buddhism. At the beginning of you turn, the game adds the SP for Kyoto (capital). Let's say 15. Then it moves over to Osaka (2nd city founded) and adds the Osaka SP (let's say 15 again). Moves over to Tokyo, and adds the 10 SP for that city. At that moment, the advance is discovered, Buddhism is founded in that particular city (Tokyo).
But that's just a guess of course, I've got no evidence.
I do rule out however, that it's allways in an under-developped city. I once had the Holy City for both Buddhism and Islam in the same, well-developped city of Osaka.

 

[jeremiahrounds]

I think it just comes down to would you rather civs be like chess or be like backgammon. Currently its mostly backgammon. But if you feel you have reload until you get the city you want you would prolly prefer it be like chess.

 

[Zurai]

It weights cities that are not already a holy city, and are not the captial, highest. If you have two cities when you found your first religion, it is very unlikely that the game will pick the capital for the holy city. Similarly, if you have two cities and one of them is a holy city, chances are the other will be picked (unless it's the capital, in which case it's pretty close to 50/50 which will be picked).

 

[The Last Conformist]

I prefer it random. It's more fun having to adapt to unforeseen events than having total control over everything.

 

[Wodan]

I agree that religion is "inspired" and no one chooses where it originates, but if the game wants to make sense historically, it should at least make it so that founding it in any city will have no impact gameplay-wise. Because this is a game and not a history lesson.

Allowing the player to choose the founding city is certainly easier for the developer however. Just an extra pop-up window.

That doesn't make sense. Make sense historically = no gameplay impact.


What makes the MOST sense is that religion is founded in some unpredictable manner (which it is), and this then encourages YOU, the player, to make that city a center of your culture and civilization.

Wodan

 

[Wodan]

BTW my worst one was a city I had sandwiched in a 1-tile strip between two AI cities, purely to get a resource.

Wodan

 

[Ubiquitous]

I founded Islam last night in a brand new, boarder town. Next turn a Barbarian attacks and raises the city! Not good!

 

[Pragmatic]

You should NOT have the option to choose where a religion is founded. Did Muslims have a choice as to where their religion would be found or where their holy city would be?

Ummm... You don't know Islamic history, do you?

Mohammed went to Mecca with his revelation. He was driven out. He went to Medina, where he was accepted. He led an army back to Mecca, and forcibly founded Islam in Mecca (with a secondary holy city in Medina).

At least, that's what I understand.

 

[Wodan]

Ummm... You don't know Islamic history, do you?

Mohammed went to Mecca with his revelation. He was driven out. He went to Medina, where he was accepted. He led an army back to Mecca, and forcibly founded Islam in Mecca (with a secondary holy city in Medina).

At least, that's what I understand.

The question there is whether he chose Mecca because of some strategic reason, or simply because God told him to go there.

Wodan

 

[DemonDeLuxe]

You guys DO realize Christ wasn't born in Rome right? I mean, sure the Jews and Islamics recognize Jerusalem for what it is, but not every religion does. Lighten up. I agree being able to choose our holy cities would make more sense.

You are absolutley right. In fact, Christianity was founded neither in Rome nor in Jerusalem. One could argue that it began in Nazareth (if was one inclined to believe those myths), but it would be more to the point to locate the cradle of Christianity in Greece, namely the spot where St. Paul wrote his letters from, seeing that basically he was the one who introduced most of what was to become known as "Christianity" (and would be more precisely called "Paulinity" because he instituted some rules that outhright contradicted Jesus' teachings).

 

[Polopapolo]

In my current game I founded 4 religions and one city (the second I built) ended up as the Holy city for 3 of them... Coincidence, I think not!

Incidentally, the religions were confuscianism, christianity ans Islam in Orleans. Taoism was founded in an underdevelopped coastal city...

By the time I founded Islam I allready had 20-25 cities...

 

[Mon Mauler]

From what I have seen, I think religions are founded in a way that is partly random and partly scripted. The method for the choosing the holy city seems to be:

1) Choose a random city that has no religions present.
2) If none then choose a city with one religion.
3) If still none then choose a city with two religions.
4) etc.

This would explain why Hinduism and Buddhism are founded in the capital, as it is probably your only city at the time. Islam would be founded in a small border city, as it is likely to be new with no religions present.

I think this is probably pretty close to the algorithm that dictates where the Holy City will be. I'm sure there is a random aspect incorporated, but I've experienced the same thing as many other posters with Islam being founded in one of my out-of-the-way/border cities.

Personally, I agree that you shouldn't be able to choose where your Holy City will be located. It's not that Holy Cities can't be dictated by decree, but I think the random aspect of it makes using your religion more interesting. More strategy is involved.

Sometimes there are imperfections in the way empires are built. Some of the workable tiles of two cities may overlap. You might not have access to iron or copper. Maybe the barbarians razed your 2nd city. Or maybe you founded a religion in a less than desireable city. The key to building a civilization that stands the test of time is being able to adapt to the conditions presented to you. Just my take.
MM

 

[NikNak]

It's good that it's a fairly random event. I think it adds a flair of unpredictability to a strategic game. Imagine how boring Civ would be if everything was in your control.

 

[The Last Conformist]

You are absolutley right. In fact, Christianity was founded neither in Rome nor in Jerusalem. One could argue that it began in Nazareth (if was one inclined to believe those myths), but it would be more to the point to locate the cradle of Christianity in Greece, namely the spot where St. Paul wrote his letters from, seeing that basically he was the one who introduced most of what was to become known as "Christianity" (and would be more precisely called "Paulinity" because he instituted some rules that outhright contradicted Jesus' teachings).

I'd very much want a reference for his writing any of his letters in Greece.

His base for his missionary travels was Antioch, and he spent alot of time in Rome. Seems more likely in wrote his letters there than in Greece, were he didn't spend much time.

 

[DemonDeLuxe]

I'd very much want a reference for his writing any of his letters in Greece.

His base for his missionary travels was Antioch, and he spent alot of time in Rome. Seems more likely in wrote his letters there than in Greece, were he didn't spend much time.

Sorry, I mixed that up, thinking of his many letter TO Greece, I guess.Of course you are right about Antioch, which doesn't change the primary meaning of my post: That the beginning of Christianity was neither in Rome nor in Jerusalem.

Thanks for correcting my error.

 

[phalzyr]

IT'd be nice if the Prophets could build the special building in any city and holy city become that one. Or maybe just have a building like the palace for each religion...

 

[tcjsavannah]

I think the Holy City is determined in yet another way. I'll try to describe.
Let's say you are playing the Japanese and you have 35 science points (SP) to go to discover the advance for let's say buddhism. At the beginning of you turn, the game adds the SP for Kyoto (capital). Let's say 15. Then it moves over to Osaka (2nd city founded) and adds the Osaka SP (let's say 15 again). Moves over to Tokyo, and adds the 10 SP for that city. At that moment, the advance is discovered, Buddhism is founded in that particular city (Tokyo).

This is the most logical and believable explanation I've heard yet. Which of course means it probably isn't true. I'd like to see if that's the case that beakers get added in city order.. if so, then it makes sense that your capital wouldn't get it much since it always gets added in first.

 

[Beamup]

The problem with that theory is that, if you have some big cities and some small, you will have a - probably very strong - tendency to have new religions founded in your biggest and best cities (since they will be producing the lion's share of your research).

It then becomes very unlikely that religions will found in smaller, less important cities... yet that's what people are seeing.