Religion Mod

A famous German navyman once had something to say about atheists. He did not believe there were any, because give a Communist one go in a U-boat with American destroyers overhead and he'll be praying to his God right quick.
 
Im back now after a long summer vacation and I think I will try to make some time to work on this mod altough I have a LOT of RL thing going on right now...

And andrew.. I am a mormon myself so Im pretty knowledagble there as well, but since I dont have loads of time right now I would appriciate any help.. :D

About the christian-muslim thingy I think they both is agressive but it depends on wich part of the history ur looking at.. nowadys its the muslims but in the erlier days it was the muslims... with C3C coming out soon, Perhaps this can be arranged :D
 
Democracy is a religion? wow you are smart to come up with that . Not many american would catch on that our government has used Democracy as a religion . the first i remember preaching Democracy can save the world was Jimmy Carter . Because our Government trying to convert the world to Democracy is the reason why some have desided to strike back at the USA. i not siding with the terrorist who attack us but you got to admit that the terrorist believe very strongly their faith to be able to give their live for it. even science is some people religion who gave their all to science. a very famous scientist gave up his children and wife for science (i would name him but E=MC^2 should give u an idea) . Religion is what people believe in and put their faith and their lives into. so religion can be good or evil and yes even atheism is some people religion and a atheist form of government is Communism. USA government was based on the Bible some but not on the church itself .
if you think Democracy isnt a religion then listen careful in the news have some PREACH the democracy message especially in our government . i strongly believe that Democracy isnt for everybody ; it was design especially for USA not for the whole world .
 
Sir John, have you checked the American Conquest thread? There are a few shaman animations that you could use here, and soon there should also be the priest.

Smidlee:
- About E= mc²... His religion was not science. Once he was asked how a scientist can believe in God. He answered something like "I don't study sciences to question God, but to know if he had another choice when creating the world".
- Just a small reminder. The USA are not the only democracy in the world. As democracy is ethimologicaly speaking governement by the people, we can even wonder if technically it is indeed a democracy and not a republic.
 
thx for the animation tips there steph... I havent had much time to work on the mod but i hope I will have time to make a new version soon...
 
There are no atheists in foxholes, however this is an argument against foxholes, not atheists.
-Unknown

I like the quote, even though the original one was incorrect in itself.
 
Originally posted by Smidlee
Democracy is a religion? wow you are smart to come up with that . Not many american would catch on that our government has used Democracy as a religion . the first i remember preaching Democracy can save the world was Jimmy Carter . Because our Government trying to convert the world to Democracy is the reason why some have desided to strike back at the USA. i not siding with the terrorist who attack us but you got to admit that the terrorist believe very strongly their faith to be able to give their live for it. even science is some people religion who gave their all to science. a very famous scientist gave up his children and wife for science (i would name him but E=MC^2 should give u an idea) . Religion is what people believe in and put their faith and their lives into. so religion can be good or evil and yes even atheism is some people religion and a atheist form of government is Communism. USA government was based on the Bible some but not on the church itself .
if you think Democracy isnt a religion then listen careful in the news have some PREACH the democracy message especially in our government . i strongly believe that Democracy isnt for everybody ; it was design especially for USA not for the whole world .

I simply couldn't agree more.
 
I think mr. Sa~Craig mistook nihilism as atheism.
Not every atheist agrees with nietszch's The Anti-Christ, just to let it clear. Altough I am no atheist my-self, I'm rather nihilist. For nihilism does not requires you not to believe in god. "god is Dead' assumes that god exists (or existed) after all.

Important to remember that there are religions based on ideas close to "nothing exists", like buddhism. They are beatiful filosofies, although I am no follower myself.
 
It's good to see americans thinking like you, Androrc and Smidlee. I've lived in the U.S. myself, so I know there are many americans thinking in many ways, but from outsides, well, some times you get scared with the news.
Although I'd not agree that democracy is not for everyone, for I believe it is, I must say your president should let nations decide when their democracy should rise, otherwise, democracy becomes hipocrisy. As current situation in Haiti shows, it's hard to simple become a democracy and we go thru mistakes before it happen. Allow the processes to be natural, that's what I say.
 
Originally posted by victorhadin

Even so, I very much like the idea for this mod (although Jehovah's Witnesses deserve no major part in it)

Having some relatives that are Jehovah's Witnesses, I agree with this view, since the aggression level would be practically zero. History bears out that they willingly went to prison or concentration camps rather than fight.
 
If you put scientology in make tampa florida their capitol it has over like 10000 ther
:king: :egypt: :D
 
This looks like it will be a very interesting mod, but it definitely needs work. Hate to be the one to add yet another suggestion for civ names, but here goes:

We have five "cultural groups" to work with, so we need five (or less) categories of religions. I would suggest:

Eastern religions
Pagan religions
Christian religions
Middle Eastern religions
Modern religions

Under each category, I would place the following religions:

Eastern:
- Hinduism
- Buddhism
- Taoism
- Jainism
- Confucianism*

Pagan:
- Norse/Germanic myth
- Greek/Roman myth
- Druidism
- Shinto
- Animism
- Mesoamerican myth
- Egyptian myth

Christian:
- Catholicism
- Lutheranism**
- Calvinism**
- Eastern Orthodox
- Mormonism*!

Middle Eastern:
- Judaism*@
- Sunni Islam
- Shia Islam
- Sufism
- Zoroastrianism

Modern:
- Wicca*#
- Scientology
- Raelism

The following can be the barbarian tribes:
- Atheists
- Nihilists
- Secular Humanists
- Existentialists
- Satanists
- Agnostics
- Infidels
- Communists

* Confucianism is not technically a religion, but since it dominated the Chinese way of life in a religious way, I would include it.

** Lutheranism and Calvinism represent the two main branches of Protestantism.

*! "Mormonism" is much shorter as a Civ name than "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints". :p

*@ Judaism has branches, but they are not different enough in my opinion that they would have different traits in Civ; thus, they are lumped together under one heading.

*# Wiccans might object and say Wicca should be included under Paganism; but the Paganism category is being used for ancient, "extinct" religions, whereas Wicca is a modern eclectic construction loosely based on what little information we actually have about the "old religions".

As for the Barbarian tribes, they are all non-theists of one stripe or another. I think this puts a humorous twist on the game, as you'll get messages like "We have disturbed an angry Existentialist Warrior". Except for Communists, of course, which are not necessarily nonreligious, but after the McCarthy era assuming so makes them hilarious. :p

I myself happen to be atheist, and a game structured in this way would provide hours on end of side-splitting laughter. :)

Now, one also would have to research these religions a bit to decide what their traits and unique units ought to be. I'm sure everyone would like to claim that their own religion is Religious and not Militaristic or Expansionist, but we must look to history here and be honest. If possible, the Religious civ trait ought to be changed to Zealous, and then given only to those religions where it applies.

Also, we'll be in need of new governments. Here are some names I've come up with thus far:

- Discipleship
- Hermitage
- Caliphate
- Papacy
- Monasticism
- Priestly Council
- Universal Ministry
- Democracy

Not sure what the stats should be for all of these but here is a brief description of their "character":

Discipleship: A single "prophet" figure has amassed a small following, and exercises reasonable control over them due to their zeal over the "new religion" he preaches. Should be an early gov't.

Hermitage: For those sages/saints living alone in the woods. Should encourage cities to be small in size, like Feudalism.

Caliphate: Single Caliph exercises absolute control over both state and religion.

Papacy: High priest and heirarchy of lower clergy exercise reasonable control over populace; secular governors may exist to meet nonreligious needs.

Monasticism: The religious convene in monasteries to learn and practice their faith. Abbots/masters have decent control over them, but there is more emphasis on learning rather than submission.

Priestly Council: A religious oligarchy where power rests with a council of priests rather than just one. People have more freedom as a result.

Universal Ministry: Every member of the Church is equally qualified to speak to God, to preach, and to evangelize. Extended civil liberties result in something not unlike the Republic in terms of stats.

Democracy: As it is currently.

It would be cool if each government had a government-specific small wonder associated with it. Governments are listed in the approximate order I think they ought to appear in the tech tree. Democracy should not be pushed to the very end, though; it should be somewhere towards the beginning of the Modern era (not at the beginning of the Modern era, but in the first third).

Any other governments/civs that anybody can come up with?
 
Sir John, jeg er enig med deg i ideen din at sivilisasjonene kunne være de vanlige og at religionene ble "governments" istedet. Hvis det er mulig, ville de med f.eks kristen "government" være vennligsinnede mot de andre som har kristen "government" og dårlig innstilte mot de som har f.eks muslimsk "government". Så kunne du konvert landet ditt (fra f.eks kristen til muslim) for å få bedre forhold og skape allianser med en annen Civ, men det burde være slik at det tok dobbelt så lang tid som vanlig å konvertere slik at ikke Civ'ene konverterte fram og tilbake hele tiden. Jeg tror det allerede er slik at hvilken type regjering du har spiller en rolle for hvor vennligstilte Civ'ene er mot deg, men du kunne kraftig forsterket denne effekten for å simulere brorskapet de religiøse føler mot andre av samme tro, f.eks muslimsk brorskap, de holder sammen nesten uansett.
 
CLOUDYWORTEX
All religions fall to that pathetic excuse of an existence sooner or later. The process is called apostacy, and the West reeks of it. Almost makes me want to convert to Islam. At least it's obvious they believe in something other than their own feeble selves.

HOMIE
Couldn't agree more.

VICTORHADIN
Christian or Muslim; which in your mod are the more aggressive? You could successfully argue for either depending on what region of history you look at.

HOMIE
Yes, you are correct. You could set it up like this:
Christianity and Islam agression in the Ages:
Ancient: Equal
Medieavel:Equal
Industrial:Equal
Modern: Christianity has no aggression, Islam is as aggressive as ever, just taken a new form :D
 
Not more successfull, more warlike. Take a look at the invasion of Spain and the religous situation before the invasion after. Also take a look at the situation after the liberation. Also take a look at the crusades, and not only the first three or four, but all of them.
 
I could answear your questions, but I have decided to end all my current debates and not get myself into a new one, so you won't get a reply from me on this topic.

Also, I take blame for encouraging an Off-Topic debate in the Completed Modpacks sub-forum.

Now, let's get back on topic: What did you think of my suggestions Sir John?
 
To get back on topic, I think these are good suggestions, with the exception of agression per age, which is just about impossible with the editor now (without "cheating"), at least as far as I can tell. Some suggestions to the goverment types:

Discipleship: First goverment, corruption very high outside capital (Dependent on a single strong figure), if you place the corruption outside the capital high, you could also have very high production (with the corruption very high, most cities will produce little total). Small support.

Hermitage: I don't think this really works as a goverment.

Caliphate: Somwhat like monarchy?

Papacy: I believe this should be an in-between.

Priestly Council: Somewhat like democracy.

Democracy: As it is not a form for religous control, I don't think this should be included.

Originally posted by Guildenstern

Universal Ministry: Every member of the Church is equally qualified to speak to God, to preach, and to evangelize. Extended civil liberties result in something not unlike the Republic in terms of stats.

Got no idea otherwise.
 
Excuse me? Where is Greek Orthodox? The first Christian religion! PUT IT IN! NOW!

--ImpressEmpress

(Theodora is my HERO!)
 
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