Religion Mod

I will add Orthodox religions as well.. I just forgot it the first versions...

@xghost: You dont need to delete any files. The mod doesnt replace anything. It just adds...
 
Oops, double post..
 
Just to make it perfectly clear what ateism is:
BTW: This is fact, not my opinion.

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: This is a highly disparate group and not a single religion. Although atheists are a small subset of this grouping, this category is not synonymous with atheism. Atheists actually make up less than one-tenth of one percent of the population in many countries where large numbers claim no religious preference, such as the United States (7.5% nonreligious) and Australia (15% nonreligious).

One portion of this broad grouping includes those who are best described as "nonreligious," i.e., those who are essentially passive with regards to religion, generally affirming neither belief nor disbelief. They may be neither contemplative about philosophy and spirituality nor involved in a religious/faith/philosophical community. Although a certain percentage of people in many countries classify themselves as nonreligious in surveys, there are few data indicating how many of these fit the passive "nonreligious" criteria described above, versus those who actually do contemplate such matters, but simply have their own personal philosophy and no stated affiliation with an organized religion.

For the purposes of this list, this grouping also includes more proactive or well-defined philosophies such as secular humanism, atheism, agnosticism, deism, pantheism, freethought, etc., most of which can be classified as religions in the sociological sense, albeit secular religions.

The "Secular/Nonreligious/etc." category is probably the most speculative estimate in this list, as this segment of society is difficult to count. The vast majority in this grouping are not aligned with any kind of membership organization. Most figures come from census and survey data, which most countries conduct only infrequently.

The highest figure we have for "Nonreligious" is 20% of the world population, or about 1.2 billion: "Over 20 percent of the world's population does not claim any allegiance to a religion. Most are agnostics. Others are atheists, who deny the existence of God." (O'Brien, Joanne & Martin Palmer. The State of Religion Atlas. Simon & Schuster: New York (1993). Pg 41.) But such a high figure is difficult to support with current country-by-country statistics, and perhaps reflects Communist-era official government statistics. Most current estimates of the world number of secular/nonreligious/agnostic/atheist/etc. are between 800 and 1 billion.

Estimates for atheism alone range from 200 to 240 million. But these come primarily from China and former Soviet Union nations (especially Russia). Prior to Communist takeovers of these regions and government attempts to eradicate religion, both places had very high levels of affiliation with organized religions (especially Islam, Christianity, Buddhism and Taoism), as well as high levels of participation in and belief in traditional local traditions such as shamanism, ancestor ceremonies, spiritism, etc. Since the fall of Communism in former Soviet nations and the relaxation of anti-religious policies in China, observed religious affiliation and activity has increased dramatically, especially in Christianity, Buddhism, and Islam.

China probably does have the largest number of actual atheists of any country in the world and many Russians clearly remain atheists. But at this point, it is impossible to accurately determine how many of those classified as atheists or nonreligious during Communist-era USSR and by the current Chinese government are actually atheists according to their personal beliefs, and how many are unregistered religious adherents or participants in less-organized traditional systems that are oriented around ancestors, animism, shamanism, etc. Many people are unaware, for instance, that China has one of the largest, most active Christian communities in the world, and that in many former Soviet nations religions such as shamanism, Islam and Russian Orthodoxy remained even while official government reports announced the elimination of religion in these regions.

In the Western world, Europe is by far the place with the most self-avowed nonreligious, atheists and agnostics, with the nonreligious proportion of the population particularly high in Scandinavia. The Encyclopedia Britannica reports approximately 41 million atheists in Europe. The self-described nonreligious segment of society in Australia and New Zealand is also high, at around 15%. In Australia less than a tenth of one percent described themselves as atheists in the latest national census (1996). In the U.S. about 7.5% of the population describe themselves as nonreligious, 0.7% describe themselves as agnostic, and a smaller number describe themselves as atheist (Kosmin, National Survey of Religious Identification, 1990).

All those who profess religious belief are not necessarily registered members of a church or denomination, but in the U.S. the majority of professed Christians and adherents of other religions are also officially affiliated with an organization. The majority of agnostics, atheists and of course nonreligious are not members of an organization associated with their position.

It may also be noted that the estimated figures presented in this particular "Major Religions" summary list are based on self-identification. Among all groups there exists a proportion (sometimes significant and sometimes small) which are only nominal adherents. This segment may identify themselves as members of a certain religion and accept the religion as their primary philosophical system, yet not actively practice the religion in the normative sense. This segment may be thought of as being functionally nonreligious or "secularized," but this segment is not what is meant by the "nonreligious" category on this Major Religious list. Accurate estimates of the size of this group are difficult to obtain because national government censuses only ask about preferred affiliation, not about religious practice. There are data available from non-census sampling surveys that ask about practice and belief, but these are usually limited in scope to narrow questions such as church attendance, and do not entirely reveal the proportion of society which is non-attending, but nevertheless privately practicing and/or believing. In many countries (Germany is a good example) there is also segment of the population which is counted as adherents of a religion, but which do not personally profess belief in that religion. (Adherents.com has some such data in its main list under "attendance" and under "poll".) See also: Top 10 Countries with Most Atheists.

The use of the term "nonreligious" or "secular" here refers to belief or participation in systems which are not traditionally labeled "religions." Of course, in the absence of traditional religions, society exhibits the same behavioral, social and psychological phenomena associated with religious cultures, but in association with secular, political, ethnic, commercial or other systems. Marxism and Maoism, for instance, had their scriptures, authority, symbolism, liturgy, clergy, prophets, proselyting, etc. Sports, art, patriotism, music, drugs, mass media and social causes have all been observed to fulfill roles similar to religion in the lives of individuals -- capturing the imagination and serving as a source of values, beliefs and social interaction. In a broader sense, sociologists point out that there are no truly "secular societies," and that the word "nonreligious" is a misnomer. Sociologically speaking, "nonreligious" people are simply those who derive their worldview and value system primarily from alternative, secular, cultural or otherwise nonrevealed systems ("religions") rather than traditional religious systems. Like traditional religions, secular systems (such as Communism, Platonism, Freudian psychology, Nazism, pantheism, atheism, nationalism, etc.) typically have favored spokespeople and typically claim to present a universally valid and applicable Truth. Like traditional religions, secular systems are subject to both rapid and gradual changes in popularity, modification, and extinction.
 
Originally posted by Sir John
I will add Orthodox religions as well.. I just forgot it the first versions...

@xghost: You dont need to delete any files. The mod doesnt replace anything. It just adds...

No, I mean I had to make room for it on my hard drive dude! I'm almost out of space, but luckily I just bought about eight more gigs, so I should be set for about another thousand or so mods. :D And this MOD just has the old normal civs, right?
 
Originally posted by anonymous4401


To rescue us? I'd be praying that you'd be forgiven for beating me up to get my lifeboat!

I'm not going to get drawn into a debate on this with you. Just one thing, though-Atheist doesn't mean Amoral.

To the person who thought Atheists weren't barbarians-in the real world, I agree with you 100%. In this context, though, it does make sense. I do object in that it implies that Atheists are anti-theist, as opposed to being just people who don't believe in the supernatural, however that's offset (in this case only!) by the fact that if all the cultures are religious, the only thing that would work for barbarian is a non-religious belief.

Satanism was also suggested, but again, that's not accurate. I think you (the person who suggested Satanism, not Anonymous4401) are making a couple of mistaken assumptions:

1) That Satanism (at least the Official Church of Satan) is the exact opposite of Christianity-it's not. In fact Satanists don't even believe in the Christian god. They believe that 'Satan' refers to an older meaning, and that Christians co-opted it.

2) That Christianity 'right' and therefore, if something is opposed (see point 1) it must be 'wrong' or, in the context of the mod, barbaric.

Marc
 
@xghost: It doesnt have the old civs. The civs are replaced with religions.... Thats kind of the point with the mod.

@tmarcl: AFAIK satanists belive in both god and satan but they choose to be on satans side.
 
It seems to me that you are converting the default civs into their kind of religion.. well somewhat. You're missing out on several large religions which are practiced throughout the world.

Western:
Celtic Druidism (Brittish Isles/North America)
Orthodix (Europe/Russia/Middle East)

Middle Eastern:
Janaism (Middle Eastern/Central Asia)
Coptic Christianity (Egypt/Libya/Syria)

Eastern:
Baha'i'sm (Central Asia)
Mandarin (Ancient China)
Sikhism (India/Central Asia)
Shintoism (Japan)

Native American:
Aztec Paganism (Central America)
Incan Paganism (South America)

It is also quite strang how you arranged the Christian religion. All affiliations would work as Christianity, but if divided the main sects of Christianity would be:

Catholicism
Coptic
Mormonism
Orthodox
Protestant

Baptists and Methodists are Protestant sects. There isn't enough Jahova's Witnesses to make a dominant sect.

Oh and for how you have the governments different types of religions you should have put:

Atheism (No God) - Anarchy
Monotheism (One God) - Monarchy
Polytheism (Many gods) - Democracy
Animalistic Polytheism (Many animal-like gods) - Democracy2
Patronistic Polytheism (Many gods yet one patron god) - Republic
Mandatism (Leader is main god) - Communism/Despotism

This post didn't mean to be mean. It's basically just comments and what would be more sensible to me and perhaps other civ'ers. I like your main idea though. I hope this helps a little.

:goodjob:
 
Very good ideas there mobilize, escpesially the governments.. I will look into the civs, but Im not going t include religions that hardly doesent exist or that doesnt exist at all anymore.. But I will se into it. Orthodox id ofcourse coming up and sp is baha'i'sm... Its nice that you replie to the civs but I would like some replies to the other aspects of the mod as well...
 
as it seems that people will begin to list all the religions the world can handle it may be an idea to separate them into ages like have an ancient religions mod a medevil religions mod and a modern religions mod. this is just an idea and will be time consuming
 
hmm.. That gave me an idea for a possible change... to use the governemnts as religions and let the normal civs be normal... This would include a lot of governments, but it would enable me to make the different religions come intoo different ages...

Thx for the idea Craig.. :D

What do you thing guys? should I do that?
 
Originally posted by Sir John

@tmarcl: AFAIK satanists belive in both god and satan but they choose to be on satans side. [/B]

I apologize for the time between posts. I don't check here all that often.

In fiction, yes, Satanists worship the Christian devil, and acknowledge the existence of the Christian god. In reality, however, Satanists don't acknowledge the validity of any portion of Christianity.

It's confusing, and I think Anton LeVay was just trying to get people upset, but it's the truth. Satanists view 'Satan' as an ancient force that has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity. In fact, I'm not certain they consider 'Satan' to even be sentient, but don't quote me on that.

Marc
 
Originally posted by Mobilize


Baptists and Methodists are Protestant sects. There aren't enough Jehova's Witnesses to make a dominant sect.




I'd be curious to know how many you'd consider necessary for them to be dominant. They're certainly well known enough to be considered, IMO.

Oh and for how you have the governments different types of religions you should have put:

Atheism (No God) - Anarchy
Monotheism (One God) - Monarchy
Polytheism (Many gods) - Democracy
Animalistic Polytheism (Many animal-like gods) - Democracy2
Patronistic Polytheism (Many gods yet one patron god) - Republic
Mandatism (Leader is main god) - Communism/Despotism

The only disagreement I have with these is that I think you're assuming 'many gods' is the same as having one person one vote (democracy). Early polytheism was very feudal. The lesser gods were responsible to the higher gods, much in the same way that nobles are responsible to kings, and so would probably be better candidates for Monarchy. In Monotheism, you begin to see religious laws being written down, and everyone, including the ruler, is subject to them, so would probably be a better candidate for Democracy.

Marc
 
-=:Tmarcl, You are right, but I meant those governments to be leader-based.

-Atheism, there's no God/gods.. thus no leader.
-Monotheism, one God.. one leader.
-Polytheism, many gods.. the fact that it's the people who chose for themselves, and not representatives like a Republic.
-Patronistic Polytheism, one main God for certain groups of people yet the exhistence of other gods, thus the patron God is the representative.
-Mandatism, your main God for now is the leader, he has absolute control.

I see what your saying but this is how I layed out the governments the way which makes most sense to me. Thanks for your argument though.

Oh, and about the Javova's Witnesses, etc. There aren't as many JW's as much as other Christian Sects.

-=:Sir John, all of those religions are still practiced to this day. Paganists are everywhere and have a religion which is directly related to an ancient religion, or a compilation of ancient religions. Now those were some suggestions and some excess religions.

However, Shintoism, Bahai'sm, and Copticism are still largely practiced. And lately, the practice of Celtic Druidism has increased drastically in North America along with other Paganist religions such as Wicca and Norse Paganism..
 
A new vesrion will come soon. I havent had a lot of time for it lately...

It will include a ton of changes but please keep the sugestions coming...
 
As a student of religions, I think this MOD is a great idea. I'll just wait until it gets a little more polished, then I'll download it. Sounds good:goodjob: .

One footnote: For a scenario where civs are religions, having atheists as barbs are a good idea. If we, atheists, were a hair color, we'd be bald. So in the same we, we don't fit, except for as barbs. However, this, in no way, makes us immoral or bad people. Also, the shinking ship thing is slightly offensive. It's really akin to the term "no Atheists in foxholes" which assumes that atheists really believe in god and are secretly afraid of hell. A couple of things to think about: 1) i know a couple of atheists who fought in the gulf war, one who was severely injured (and coincidentally tells us that he never once thought about god). 2) I would have reservations about a religion that needs to use fear to convert people (i.e. a sinking ship) :p
 
:lol:

It was never my attempt to scare people but its actually quite true tough. You may say that thats just bull right now but you havent been in such as situatuion. (im not saying I have)
 
Actually, I have been in some seriously desparate situations, and did not suddenly start worshipping a god... I'm with Isaac_Newton; I'm kinda offended by your signature as well. I'm not dissing theists in mine!
 
FYI Sir John

I am very knowledable about mormonism so if you need any help in that area I'd be more then happy to help. I can help with city names, UU, leader etc....
 
Originally posted by Sir John
:lol:

It was never my attempt to scare people but its actually quite true tough. You may say that thats just bull right now but you havent been in such as situatuion. (im not saying I have)

Considering how many World War 1 veterans professed to have lost all faith in God as a result of experiencing the horrors of war, I would say that the truth could be quite the reverse.


Even so, I very much like the idea for this mod (although Jehovah's Witnesses deserve no major part in it) but I feel inclined to ask:

Christian or Muslim; which in your mod are the more aggressive? You could successfully argue for either depending on what region of history you look at. ;)
 
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