Religion musing

[CyberForte]

Hello. I've been something of a lurker on these forums for some time, as well as a player of FfH2 and RifE. I don't think I've made a post previously here, so I suppose this passes as my introduction.

I'm not sure if this really belongs here or in the FfH2 modmod forum, but for the moment I'm going to put this here since, beyond being something I might eventually figure out how to mod in, I'm putting it as a possible submission as an alternate possibility for a Neutral Evil religion after reading the Religion in 1.4 thread.

But beyond being a submission, since, as I've said I might attempt to mod it in myself, especially since I'll likely keep a copy of RifE 1.31 even if I do like the 1.4 changes. Thus, I'd like to ask for opinions on the general concept, including:
Balanced?
Decent fit with the existing lore?
Interesting as a concept to use?

That all said, I should probably say what this actually is. The idea was born out of having trouble finding a religion I really enjoyed and could use (Esus and White Hand are my favorites--but both have some problems in actually being used), and mild annoyance that the supposedly arcane flavors of the Veil only really went skin-deep.

Thus, I present The Chosen of Ceridwen:

Name: Chosen of Ceridwen (better name?)
Alignment: Evil
Description:

The teachings of Ceridwen yet linger from past days, and with the return of civilization and magic, they take on new life in the Age of Rebirth. The teachings of the goddess known as the Queen of Pain do not seem evil upon the surface, and yet in time even the best intentions are corrupted in her service. Knowing, perhaps, that the teachings of the Veil often fail to sway those who would not be supplicants of hell, but rather think themselves able to rule it, her own approach is much more subtle, drawing in with a gentle hand whilst secretly crafting those ensnared with a climate of fear, uncertainty, and oppression.

The peoples of a land in which the Chosen has spread seldom have any true grap of the situation, for they are easily tended to by the Messengers, who go amongst the people and tend to their needs as the priests of any other faith would. It is into this class, serving Ceridwen's ends without much real knowledge, that the men who would seek her teachings are put, for the most part--though certainly there are notable exceptions. Little knowledge of the magics which characterize the faith are needed in this, but even so they are touched by the goddess and so are trained to dabble in the ways of dimensions, giving them unparalleled speed as well as a way to escape from dangerous situations, both of which are factors leading to their name.

Those who truly have the favor of the goddess, however, are primarily women, and almost exclusively those who have already obtained significant magics in their own right before they catch her eye. Such talented spellcasters are on many cases easily swayed by the whispers promising them not only greater power, but greater respect. Indeed, capitalizing on the lack of a place for arcane magics in most of the other faiths of Erebus, Ceridwen promises these already powerful and skilled women both the power and prestige that are given to priests in most societies.

And, to those who accept this favor, they are indeed given such power. The few who both are offered such power and accept it become the Inviolate of Ceridwen, sacrosanct to her. Although they are not granted the powerful divine magics of other priests, they do receive the ability to perform divine healing--and, more importantly, the protection that their name suggests. It is a difficult thing to successfully attack a priestess cloaked in the protection of the lady of dimensions--and to do so at all is an incredibly poor idea. Those who successfully attack and kill one of the Inviolate are cursed and indeed, the life of such a person is forfeit. To anyone who looks upon them, save their own people perhaps, they will seem an evil creature, and the curse is of such a nature that any attempt to communicate this is prevented, and so, in most cases they must either retire to some isolated place or die at the hands of anyone they should come across. This malediction from the Queen of Pain is strong enough to resist almost any attempt to dispel it.

In exchange for such prestige, however, they learn that the favor of the goddess is no easy thing. The higher levels of the Chosen's hierarchy are inevitably filled with jealousy, rivalry, and general animosity between the priestesses, carefully nurtured by the goddess herself. And, of course, to anyone who fell to her whispers in the first place, the appeal of ruling others becomes increasingly powerful. This is only heavily enhanced by the deeply ceremonial nature of the public festivals which are required fairly frequently, and the somewhat arbitrary rulings which she imposes upon them, which in turn encourage the Inviolate to treat their own followers in such a way.

Though the execution of the festivals and ceremonies differs between places, one rule which is unchanging is that he worship must be conducted outdoors, and indeed no true temples to Ceridwen are allowed. However, another fairly standard practice of her followers is to build "forests" of stone in which to conduct their worship, usually with an actual housing complex for the Inviolate and Messengers placed nearby. In some cases these "forests" or henges are purely ceremonial, but a properly built one becomes a powerful magical focal point as well.

Finally, for those who had excelled in the service of their goddess despite the limitations and rivalries of the Chosen, the highest office of the faith is that of Oracle. Even here, two Oracles sit at once, to create tension, and even to her most devoted followers Ceridwen does not grant favors freely. However, in addition to being further inviolate--the life of anyone who should so much as touch one without her permission is forfeit--and nearly impossible to kill, the Oracles do have divine power to justify their name. That is to say, they are granted the ability to see the world and watch as important events unfold, though to see as such requires great preparation, and no results are assured, with the fickle nature of their goddess.


Tech: Forbidden Paths, requires Sorcery

Quote:

"How like that fool of man who abandoned the truth to teach that the most sacred treasures of the world are available to anyone. But anyone with vision knows he is wrong--the greatest power of magic is only fit to be wielded by those who have both talent and devotion to their art. The unworthy who seek it with less call me cruel and oppressive, but they will never glimpse what lies down these "forbidden" paths of mine.... It is no wonder that their empires fall." - Ceridwen


Religious Hero: ?


Unique Units:
Messenger
Requires Priesthood
Disciple Unit
4 str
3 mov
Starts with Medic I, Medic II, Dimensional I, Dimensional II, Channeling II
Unit an use the "Spread Chosen of Ceridwen" ability.

Background:

The closest thing in the Chosen to the disciples of other faith, the Messengers of Ceridwen are primarily the men who would attend the goddess's call. Only the most powerful and ambitious men avoid falling into this class--and it is indeed a fall, for although they become skilled healers and the first to bring the faith to new lands, there is, in the vast majority of cases, no chance for advancement. One may become quite well-respected and prominent amongst the messengers, but it is almost unheard of for a messenger to advance along and become Inviolate. Those chosen to be messengers do, however, learn the basics of dimensional magic, speeding them even further in their travels to do the bidding of the Chosen and of their goddess.

Note: Due to the national limit on Inviolates, I thought the disciple unit should be somewhere in the middle between normal disciples and normal priests. Their cost would be somewhere in the middle as well, due to having the healing ability and tech req of a priest, but lacking the ability to cast divine spells or found temples. However, the dimensional spells and high mobility would make up for the tech requirement in terms of allowing them to easily reach cities to spread the Chosen unescorted in many cases.


Inviolate
Requires Forbidden Paths
National Unit - 8 Allowed
Arcane unit - Unit cannot be built, must be upgraded from a unit of level 6 or higher (Upgrades from unitclass mage).
3/5 str
2 mov
75% withdraw chance when defending
Starts with Channeling I, Channeling II, Dimensional I, Dimensional II, Dimensional III, Twincast, Medic I, Medic II, Divine, Inviolate. Unit starts with +1 free promotion.
Unit can use the "Construct Sacred Henge" ability (Requires Divine, Channeling II)

Background:

The Inviolate are the priestesses of Ceridwen and have her protection and those who would kill them are cursed by the Queen of Pain, their lives forfeit to anyone who does not know them due to powerful bending of reality that makes them seem monsters to all who look upon them and know not their crime. But only those who have become skilled mages in their own right first may take up the black robes of the Inviolate. These priestesses wield great political and society power as well, and indeed most seek it out, attracted by the idea of having the same social standing as the members of other priesthoods.

The Inviolate are almost exclusively women in the Age of Rebirth, and tend to be powerful, charismatic individuals, and their station only boosts this, but such power and exclusiveness inevitably breeds corruption. That is not to say they may not still act, or even be, benevolent in their actions. Instead, the corruption is of intention and belief. The priestesses find themselves striving to outdo each other in their dealings with the people through the many elaborate festivals they are expected to attend, as well as in their healing prowess or the defense of their nation in war. The teachings of Ceridwen are guarded quite jealously as these tendencies grow, and indeed the study of magic is something most would happily deny to all but a chosen few. This makes the already hard-to-access order almost as inaccessible as it is Sacrosanct, unless someone should violate the latter tenant and free up a spot in the ranks of the priestesses.

Notes: National limit is for lore reasons and, more importantly, to avoid losing too many units to their curse when attacking a city. Their withdraw rate is somewhat useful in this regard, as Inviolate only takes effect when the unit is killed. Aside from this, they're mages who're stronger on the defense and able to use Dimensional III, as well as heal and cure disease, but no further divine spells, instead having the normal Twincast ability available from the start. They also have access to the create temple spell--however, due to the jealous nature of the religion, it can only be cast in your own cities, and ones where the religion is already present. However, though it requires several turns to cast, it does not consume the Inviolate. Although they are authorized to acquire command I and March, they cannot be upgraded into Paladins/Druids/Eidolons.


Oracle
Requires Theology
National Unit - 2 Allowed
Arcane unit - Unit cannot be built, must be upgraded from a unit of level 10 or higher (Upgrades from Inviolate).
Requires Incense
5/7
2 mov
100% withdraw chance when defending
Starts with Channeling I, Channeling II, Channeling III, Dimensional I, Dimensional II, Dimensional III, Twincast, Medic I, Medic II, Medic III, Divine, Inviolate, Inviolate II. Unit starts with +1 free promotion.
Unit can use the "Construct Sacred Henge" ability (Requires Divine, Channeling II)


Background:

The High Priestesses of Ceridwen, and those who have her highest favor. In addition to greater divine protection and even more inviolate status, they are given Sight by the lady of dimensions, so that they might look upon the world from afar. This requires great ritual preparation, and it will not always grant a view of anything particularly valuable, but it can also potentially give her followers an edge in seeing beyond any border and in watching as events unfold elsewhere in the world. In addition to this, the Oracles retain all the abilities of the Inviolate, and also gain the ability to use magic at least equal to that of an archmage.

Given this favor, and their greater power in the form of the divine spells, Oracles are generally even more corrupt and oppressive than the Inviolate, but it is hard to deny their utility to those they give their help to. Beyond their duty as actual Oracles, they have even more ceremonial duties than the Inviolate, and are almostly constantly busy with something, although in times of war they may still travel with the arnies. However, once created, the presence of an Oracle who is direlect her duties will create some discontent amongst the people.

Notes: The national limit is as before--and even lower here, both for reasons described in the lore and because the curse of Inviolate II would be applied to any unit who attacked (if that is possible), even if the Oracle withdraws. Of course, even with the withdraw rate, they can still be killed if surrounded or pursed by multiple units. As far as the divine spell, "Sight," it would first do a check with 60% good 40% bad; if it came out good, then the spell would search for an area with a high concentration of units, favoring areas the player is currently unable to see. If the result is bad, it would instead favor empty land the player does not currently have sight in. In either case, the spell would immobilize the oracle in the city of casting for a few turns and spawn an invisible unit in that place to grant the player vision there for several turns, with the spell casting requiring one turn of rest after before she could return. If possible, -1 happiness in all cities with a Sacred Henge if you have Oracles, but there is not currently at least one within cultural borders, and +1 happy for a city an Oracle is stationed in.



Unique Buildings:

Sacred Henge
Requires Forbidden Paths
+20% Culture
Training Modifiers: 0.25 (Arcane Units), 0.10 (Disciple Units)
+ 1 Happy from Incense
+ 1 Happy from Reagents
+ 1 Happy with Religion
+ 1 Happy with Oracle in city
- 1 Happy with Oracle, but not within cultural borders
Can turn 1 citizen into Priest
Can turn 1 citizen into Healer
+15% to heal rate of units in the city
+20% resistance to magic for units in the city
Required to Train Messenger, Inviolate, Oracle


Background:

In the Age of Rebirth, the worship of Ceridwen is something which may only be done in the open air. However, this has not stopped elaborate sites from being prepared for this purposes. Stone forests of intricate design and varied shape, the Sacred Henges usually stand high above the cities that follow the ways of the Chosen, a testament to the power and exclusivity of the priestesses. However, at festivals they are opened to the public and the sight of elaborate rituals, often including impressive feats of magic that increase the veneration of the people for the Inviolate. And should an Oracle be present, these festivals become even more resplendent, drawing the populace even further into their veneration of Ceridwen.

In times of war, the Sacred Henges also become bastions of magical power, protecting the city from the magics of those who would assail it, and the herblore of the Messengers and Priestesses offer a substantial amount of healing to soldiers who find themselves within a city with a Henge.


Forbidden Utopia
Can only be built in the Chosen of Ceridwen Holy City
Can be built by Great Prophet, Healer
+2 GPP (Healer), +8 Culture
Provides 1 Dimensional Mana
+1 gold per city with Chosen of Ceridwen
Can turn 2 Citizens into Priest
Can turn 1 Citizen into Healer
Free Promotion for units in the city (Magic Immune), removed on leaving the city
Prevents units of Level 4 or less from entering or leaving the city (including those of the owner).
-75% military production
+100% production of Arcane units
Cannot airlift units to or from city


Background:
The holy shrine to the lady of dimensions could be built in no ordinary way, nor in any mundane, ordinary place. No, the city in which it is built is no longer entirely a part of the material world, moved into the mists that lie between existence and nonexistence. These are not the same mists that linger in the Sidar lands, however, but rather mists to hide what is not there. Those who have accomplished nothing can neither enter nor leave this sacred city, and it is protected against even the power of her own magics, as for Ceridwen it is a simple task to close the portals of the nexus as well as the roads of men.

However, this protection is quite impartial; it prevents leaving as easily as entering, and it effects her followers as much as their enemies, save in ome regard--their magics within are stronger, whilst no magics from without can do harm to those who stand upon the sacred ground, nor even so much as reach them. Given its nature, the city is poorly suited for the training of military units, for instructors and armorers cannot easily enter, but it is a perfect place for users of magic to be schooled in their craft, though not even they can leave before they have obtained a significant degree of skill.

It is said that the city which is thus withdrawn into the mists becomes exceptionally beautiful, however, for in its place between the worlds the laws of reality do not always apply, allowing for strange and wonderful things to occur. Though the truth of this is not something which is divulged freely, for those so favored that they have passed through the mists to the Forbidden Utopia tend only to speak cryptically, following the teachings of Ceridwen and making their prestige yet greater at the expense of others.

Notes: Out of everything, this was the most challenging to try to balance, and I don't know if I've succeeded. However, I feel the concept of a place as inaccessible to units of the owner as of the enemy fits the theme of exclusivity and prestige quite well. If you think it needs improvement, please feel free to post suggestions for this. Given the general secondary healer focus of this religion, I felt having it able to be built by one and giving healer gpps was appropriate, though. Also, if possible, teleporting via dimensional I/II would be disabled in the city, unless it was the capital in which case Dim. I would still function. Not the best place to put your capital, though.

Edit: Also, since I never mentioned what those who're cursed actually get hit with... -2 def str, hidden nationality, unable to receive defensive bonuses, and increased chance to defend the stack was what I had in mind. Too strong? Too weak?


I still need to decide upon a religious hero or two, as well as another unique unit, so any thoughts on these subjects are welcomed, in addition to comments and criticisms on the rest of what I've put down here. Is there any canonical documentation on who the Archangel of Ceridwen is?

I suppose if I decided to mod it myself, the hardest part would be creating the Oracles' spell.... That would require a knowledge of Python to implement, correct? Much of the rest seems fairly similar to existing features, though my few small forays into modding haven't been enough for me to be sure of that yet.

 

[Valkrionn]

Haven't read the whole thing yet, but the background for the religion itself is fairly interesting.


We actually tossed around using a faith based on Ceridwen; The reason we did not, was quite simple. She is one of the chief deities of AV (alongside Agares and Bhall), and even has a cult devoted solely to her (the Emyrs); The issue with said cult is that it is more strongly Chaotic Evil than AV itself is.

Keep in mind, Ceridwen is the goddess that wants to actually destroy creation. The rest of the evil gods either don't care, or want to conquer it. She's not really a good fit for evil, as opposed to chaotic evil.


Still, that doesn't mean it can't be done (just like we're using Agares for Chaotic Good). Would be willing to answer any questions you have trying to implement it.

 

[Lplate]

Hi,

I like the concept. I think the name fits, especially given the "exclusivity" aspects - does mean I'll have to come up with a new promotion name in my mod - I only created a Ceridwens Chosen promotion last night.

 

[BvBPL]

Tech: Forbidden Paths, requires Sorcery

Just Sorcery? No relgious tech required?

Unique Units:
Messenger
Requires Priesthood
Disciple Unit
4 str
3 mov

This would be a speed four unit under a spiritual leader, which is quite fast indeed.

Unique Buildings:

Sacred Henge
+ 1 Happy from Incense
+ 1 Happy from Reagents

Gaining +1 happiness from Incense and Reagents is over powered.

Forbidden Utopia
Can only be built in the Chosen of Ceridwen Holy City
Can be built by Great Prophet, Healer
+2 GPP (Healer), +8 Culture
Prevents units of Level 4 or less from entering or leaving the city (including those of the owner).
-75% military production
+100% production of Arcane units

Okay, this might have a problem. The “no entry, no exit” function is interesting, but this can only be built in the holy city which generates some strategic issues since the play cannot reliably choose which city becomes the holy city. Furthermore, I would imagine that function would cause significant issues with an AI owning the city who would likely end up flooding the city with units that can never leave and take forever to build. It is also likely that the AI could never field a viable assault force against the city given the level 4 requirement to attack. Finally, allowing a healer to construct the shrine might be a little overpowered given that healers are among the easiest and most frequent great people to be generated whereas you need to actually work at it to get a prophet.

 

[CyberForte]

Haven't read the whole thing yet, but the background for the religion itself is fairly interesting.


We actually tossed around using a faith based on Ceridwen; The reason we did not, was quite simple. She is one of the chief deities of AV (alongside Agares and Bhall), and even has a cult devoted solely to her (the Emyrs); The issue with said cult is that it is more strongly Chaotic Evil than AV itself is.

Keep in mind, Ceridwen is the goddess that wants to actually destroy creation. The rest of the evil gods either don't care, or want to conquer it. She's not really a good fit for evil, as opposed to chaotic evil.


Still, that doesn't mean it can't be done (just like we're using Agares for Chaotic Good). Would be willing to answer any questions you have trying to implement it.

Alright. Thank you for looking and for your quick reply. What I was able to find in the lore about her was fairly limited, though I only remembered the entry in which she freed Tebryn now that you mention it, so my mistake.

That's a reasonable reason though, yes. I think I'll still eventually pursue this myself, though, so thank you for your offer of help. I'll have to investigate the easy parts of modding it at some point, and then I'll be sure to bug you with some questions. =P

@Lplate - XD; My apologies for that inconvenience. But thank you, I'm glad you liked it. Dare I hope that means you like the idea enough to use it?

@BvBPL - Thanks for the thoughts.
1. Well, sorcery requires Mysticism already, and given the already hefty requirements for it (writing and a magic school, with sorcery itself being fairly expensive), adding way of the wicked seems a touch much, especially since I'm rather attached to having it come from sorcery, both because of the way the priestesses upgrade and because of the Kylorin quote upon discovering sorcery. You still have to go the religious path for Priesthood. Or perhaps just Philosophy could be the second req?

2. Would removing 1 movement point and giving mobility 1 as a starting promotion fix that? If not, what would you suggest?

3. Hm, just reagents then, perhaps?

4. I suppose you have some valid points there. Removing the ability for a healer to construct it would be something I wouldn't mind, but the rest is hard to make a judgment on. Well, if I decide to actually implement this, I'll give some thought to how to fix that. It doesn't suit the flavor as strongly, but would Lv 2 or Lv 3 be more AI-friendly? Lv 2 is easy enough to grab off the bat with apprenticeship or any of the other exp starting methods, so it feels almost too easy, but Lv 3 might border on the same difficulty as 4. Is there a particular way you can think of to make this mechanic viable, or would you suggest I simply look for a different way to approach what the city represents in terms of gameplay?

 

[BvBPL]

@BvBPL - Thanks for the thoughts.
1. Well, sorcery requires Mysticism already....

Good point.

2. Would removing 1 movement point and giving mobility 1 as a starting promotion fix that? If not, what would you suggest?

I'm not an expert, but that would probably work.

3. Hm, just reagents then, perhaps?

Much more reasonable.

Re: Shrine:

To be honest, I’m not sure if the “no entry, no exit” mechanic can be implemented in a manner that is fair across all difficulty levels given the current AI. It is simply too alien relative to other mechanics.

For example, how would it interact with the Luchuirp and Maekra golems? How does the AI pathfinding interact with this system as it would naturally direct a stack through the city if it is friendly? Will the AI be aware that the city should only build arcane units or will it throw hammers away?

The key flavor elements of the shrine from the lore you wrote up appear to be as follows:

Outside of Erebus Terra
Exceedingly beautiful
Poor arms training
Hard to find, hard to leave
Good for magicians

Here are some alternative abilities for the shrine that still fit those flavor points:

1. Allow oracles to call the shrine to other cities by a magic spell. This would move the shrine around, establishing the new home as the new holy city. This would likely need to come at some cost, maybe the death of the calling oracle. It would be super cool and flavorful if it could be transferred between civs worshipping the Chosen because, really, does Ceridwen really care who holds the earthly shrine provided conflict ensues?

2. Give the city instant legendary cultural borders and defense without counting as a legendary city for winning. Obviously this limits the ability of warring factions to enter the city and simulates the ethereal beauty of the Utopia.

3. Enable a fog of war / clouding ability over the city. Maybe when the city is not visible to a civ’s units the city’s cultural borders cloud over to blackness as though it was unexplored. This might also reduce the visibility of units within said borders.

4. Double the city’s cultural defense and reduce the ability of siege weapons to bombard the defense ratio.

5. Double the fortification and tile defense of units stationed in the city. 4 & 5 both simulate the beauty of the city and one’s inability to enter it, but might be considered boring.

Then there’s the question if the shrine needs any super secret power anyway. The RoK, FoL, OO, and Order shrines don’t really have any magic powers, but the lack of magic powers is balanced out by other benefits for those following these religions. The Chosen, as written, provides a whole bunch of twincasting mages. That’s a pretty big bonus right there; magic shrine bonuses might be unnecessary when coupled with the possibility of 10 twincasting mages that are practically impossible to kill.

Also, regarding the oracles: requiring a level 10 unit to be promoted is pretty onerous. That’s three times the XP necessary to promote other priests to high priests. I agree that the oracles’ abilities are in line with a very rare and high-end unit, but requiring level ten means they will be much, much more uncommon.

 

[Randomness]

On Forbidden Utopia:

Perhaps you could give -% to combat strength to units attacking and built in city based on their level.

For example, any level one unit built in the city or attacking the city would have -50% combat strength, any level 5 unit would have -25%, leaving level 10+ units unaffected.

 

[CyberForte]

Hm, I suppose you have good points there. I had originally thought of the entrance/exit thing due to the Wall of Force spell for Force III, but I've never really had a situation where I saw how well the AI handled that either, and it's only for hostile units.

Given that, I start to lean toward your other ideas. The one that strikes me the most is the pulling the holy city away; I quite like it. Once I figure out what's possible, if I can do that, I will. Given that world builder can affect holy cities, it seems likely to be doable, and the flavor definitely fits.

I might combine it with the second idea as well, perhaps in exchange for lowering the gold per city to .5, or removing it entirely. I like the idea of it sacrificing the Oracle. Given the strife bit, if it's possible to move it between civs, doing so would probably give a nice diplo penalty with the one you stole it from, in the interest of causing war. Such things correlate to her Chaotic Evil nature without changing the overall flavor of the religion to CE.

In regards to Oracles, maybe 9 or 8 instead then? Especially with the sacrifice mechanic being made available.

@ Randomness - That's not a bad idea either,. I'd probably go with it if the whole stealing/moving the shrine thing hadn't captured my imagination already. Sorry, ehe. ^^;


Mulling over a few thoughts on a hero, but nothing solid yet. Idea is vaguely inspired by Gate of Babylon from Fate/stay night; if anyone's familiar with that, do you think something like that would be fitting, flavorwise?

 

[Acrux]

Small idea: Keep the oracle numbers low -- Oracles should be world units with only 2 allowed at any time, trying to pull the Holy City across national boundaries. That would also help to encourage strife.

 

[Elder Methyl]

FFH Lore states that Ceridwen helped mortals steal the Gems of Water, Air, and Death. If D'Tesh has the Gem of Death instead of Tuoni (its canonical holder), why not heroes who hold the other two gems?

 

[Elder Methyl]

Can I bump this?

 

[Aoleleb]

I think you just did...

 

[Elder Methyl]

Ah, sorry. What I should have said was: Will it break Forum Etiquette for me to bump this?

 

[PotatoSamurai]

Ah, sorry. What I should have said was: Will it break Forum Etiquette for me to bump this?

I think it's more questionable to post repeatedly without content.

And avoiding personal hypocrisy, is there a searchable compilation of FFH and RifE lore? I've been concerned that some of the ideas I'm brewing are similarly breaking conventions.

 

[Elder Methyl]

Well, there's the Civilo-pdf lore compedium for FFH lore. As for RifE lore, there's the Tales from Erebus compilation, though some of the information is inaccurate.

Edit: Also, I have a few ideas for the Hero. What about a fundamentally good person who only serves Ceridwen because she has acquired and imprisoned the souls of his hometown and is treathening to send them to Camulos' Vault and the various torments there? I'm thinking of a Martial Artist of some sort, or something Non-Western.

 

[CyberForte]

Heh, thank you for doing so, actually. I had read your thought and liked it, but being a fundamentally lazy person, I let my intent to reply get put off repeatedly until I just forgot.

But yes, the idea of the heroes with the gems is a rather interesting one, and one I like. Though, given the power that suggests, I would imagine that the two would have to come at late game techs--possibly different ones to make it more likely that they be reached by different civs?

On the note of making Oracles world units, the idea is flavorful but honestly unfeasible. If you were to use it, then it would be actually easier for a single civ to have both of the two at the same time and destroy the mechanic. Though, on that note, given that base RifE does not employ the Calabim Mage/Archmage art from base (personally I do, which I will admit is because I find normal mage art terribly dull), they would be a possible candidate for Inviolate/Oracle unit art.

As to the other hero idea, that has definite possibility as well. Given the generally western flavor of the civs, it would well-represent the ability to reach beyond the normal limits of the world. Did you have any thoughts on particular abilities?
-CF

 

[Lplate]

On the note of making Oracles world units, the idea is flavorful but honestly unfeasible. If you were to use it, then it would be actually easier for a single civ to have both of the two at the same time and destroy the mechanic.
-CF

I haven't tried it but couldn't you use different values in the UNITCLASS for <iMaxGlobalInstances> & <iMaxTeamInstances> to make sure that at least one alternative civilization will always be able to get an Oracle.

 

[Elder Methyl]

As to the other hero idea, that has definite possibility as well. Given the generally western flavor of the civs, it would well-represent the ability to reach beyond the normal limits of the world. Did you have any thoughts on particular abilities?
-CF

I'm thinking that he has some sort of exotic weapon, such as Wind and fire wheels or a Meteor hammer. Due to the fact that his alignment is still Good, those weapons would inflict Holy damage, meaning that he would be of use towards Evil competitors. Not merely that, but those weapons would be the only ones that can kill an Inviolate or an Oracle without the consequences, thus making him a prime target for the enemies of the Chosen.

I also have ideas for a 'Corruption Meter', where for every Good opponent he kills and every city Razed by him, he gets more tainted by Ceridwen's ways. This ends with him getting killed and returning as a Demon, now fully devoted to his goddess. The weapons are still able to kill the Inviolates and the Oracles, but now deal Unholy damage. Sounds good?

Edit: On the other hand, it would be better to have the weapons lose their ability to kill Inviolates and Oracles once the Corruption Meter is full. That will encourage Good nations to throw their forces at the Hero and try to kill him as fast as possible. However, this risks filling the Meter faster, which means that that stategy is risky.

 

[CyberForte]

@Lplate, that's potentially possible. I'll mess with that when I start making things in the actual files and see if that approach works, but on the surface it seems like it should.

Careful with the links, you keep ending up with an extra http:// in them that's corrupting them. But those weapon ideas definitely look interesting, and they're rather rare enough in depiction to seem rather unique. The only issue, then, is getting the unit art for such items. Do you have a picture of the former? I'm terrible at visualizing things from written descriptions.

The latter sounds good as well, though I've yet to start delving into python enough to know how easily or hard such a meter would be to code successfully. If it was doable, however, it would be a fine idea. Since weapons are handled as promotions, I think they would easily be able to block the negative effects by forbidding the promotion I had intended to use to inflict the effects, although I've yet to actually start playing with the code to be sure this works--I only say this because I vaguely recall an issue in a thread I read about that involved whether or not a promotion added modularly could reference another one in the module...

Ideally, this would be done as a module to make it more easily usable, but I'll have to actually mess with stuff before I know if that's possible. If anyone with knowledge of such things could render an opinion, that would be appreciated.

-CF

 

[Elder Methyl]

Here. Also, have you read my edit? If so, is it intresting?