Religion redesign

[Deliverator]

I think the Eras can just be static images. There is no real gameplay impact to Eras - it is basically cosmetic. I haven't really thought what would make appropriate images for the Eras. There is a vague theme to the Eras. They are roughly stages in the life of an individual Fremen. For example, Mihna is the season for testing Fremen youths who wish admittance to manhood. You can look up the meanings of the other Fremen words here.

 

[Slvynn]

I wont put growing freeman on those pics, i need help to separate all existing Dune story with their viusals to game eras. Then, i can work and build some collages from them. Atm i dont see clearly what will distinct visually Ayat from Wali for example.

 

[davidlallen]

I wont put growing freeman on those pics

Actually that is not a bad idea. Seeds could show a family scene with a new child. Youth could show a Fremen child getting their first stillsuit, or entering the desert for the first time. Testing could show a Fremen teenager attempting to ride their first worm. Some of the later word choices are not perfect; I suppose we could add fatherhood as one, to focus better on life stages.

 

[Slvynn]

Actually that is not a bad idea. Seeds could show a family scene with a new child. Youth could show a Fremen child getting their first stillsuit, or entering the desert for the first time. Testing could show a Fremen teenager attempting to ride their first worm. Some of the later word choices are not perfect; I suppose we could add fatherhood as one, to focus better on life stages.

Ok, i'll make some sketches soon. It would be monochromatic as in vanilla. Color illustration is huge work and not necessary. Please continue, and yes , some readjustment may be necessary.

 

[Deliverator]

I don't think the all need to directly relate to the stage of a Fremen life. We can make it more vague.

Seeds - a desert flower in the foreground with desert scene in the background.
Wali - a child overlooking the desert from a sietch
Minha - a young Fremen riding first worm (they do this at approx. 12 years of age)
Hajra - a Fremen troop moving through rocky area towards a sietch perhaps
Tahaddi - a fist clutching a Crysknife in the Fremen challenge to combat
Ijaz - Perhaps a scene of Arrakeen, Temple of Alia or the Keep with a figure looking out
Jannah - Water flowing through the desert

 

[Ahriman]

I don't think the all need to directly relate to the stage of a Fremen life. We can make it more vague.

Seeds - a desert flower in the foreground with desert scene in the background.
Wali - a child overlooking the desert from a sietch
Minha - a young Fremen riding first worm (they do this at approx. 12 years of age)
Hajra - a Fremen troop moving through rocky area towards a sietch perhaps
Tahaddi - a fist clutching a Crysknife in the Fremen challenge to combat
Ijaz - Perhaps a scene of Arrakeen, Temple of Alia or the Keep with a figure looking out
Jannah - Water flowing through the desert

I like this.

 

[Slvynn]

I like Deliverators version more as well. Ok, so you ok with keeping charcoal style?

 

[Deliverator]

Ahriman, I've been looking over your design and I'm not sure all the religion commerce yields are what you suggested/expected.

The best way is probably for you to review the file Civ4ReligionInfo.xml. Each religion has 3 sets of three commerce tags:

iGlobalReligionCommerce - Increases the gold, beakers, and culture per turn for the religion's shrine by this amount.
iHolyCityCommerce - Increases the gold, beakers, and culture per turn in the holy city by this amount.
iStateReligionCommerce - Increases the gold, beakers, and culture per turn in the religion's cities by this amount.

See here for more.

Within each multi-line tag the first value is the gold yield, the second beakers and the third culture.

Care to review this and post an amended file?

 

[Ahriman]

Ahriman, I've been looking over your design and I'm not sure all the religion commerce yields are what you suggested/expected.

I haven't changed any of these. Aren't they all still +1 happy, +1 culture for the statereligion, +4 culture for the holy city, and whatever the specific shrine gives for the wonder?

What do you think is wrong?

I considered changing some of them so that for eg landsraad gave a gold bonus instead of happiness, but didn't change anything yet.

From my little play, it does feel like moving the missionaries to require the temples (and dropping imperial missionary to national limit 1) made a big difference; Imperium is much less dominant.

 

[Deliverator]

A summary of the current values, they are not the vanilla defaults:

Shrine (GlobalReligionCommerce) / Holy City / State Religion

Imperial: +1 culture / +1 culture / +1 culture
Landsraad: +1 gold / +1 culture / +1 culture
Mahdi: +1 gold / +1 gold / +1 culture
Qizarate: +1 gold / +1 culture / +1 culture
Shai Hulud: +1 gold / +1 culture / +1 culture
Technocracy: +1 beaker / +1 gold / +1 culture
Tleilaxu: +1 gold / +1 gold / +1 culture

Values are per turn.

I am just looking for comfirmation that these are correct and make sense.

The happiness bonus from State Religion is independent of these commerce adjustments.

For some reason the pedia doesn't show the first of these values, just the holy city and state religion values.

 

[Ahriman]

The Landsraad shrine should not give +1 gold per city with the religion, if we have it working as a spice hq (I haven't tested). It should give 0.
Holy city values could arguably be +2 culture rather than +1.

Mahdi +1 gold for the shrine is a placeholder, until we can figure out how to make it give military production (which is the design goal) - which would obviously require sdk changes.

+1 gold from technocracy, mahdi and tleilaxu holy cities look weird. They should probably go to culture.

Otherwise, they're probably fine.

The shrine values *are* shown in the pedia IIRC, but they're shown in the stats of the shrine wonder, not the religion.

 

[Deliverator]

I don't know if this is just my bad play, but I really struggled to get the CHOAM Headquarters built after beelining to Great Houses to try it out. I couldn't get a Great Prophet for love nor money whereas I seemed to have loads of Great Scientist GPPs.

Could we make it buildable by a Great Scientist instead of a Great Prophet to help challenged players like me?

 

[Ahriman]

Hmm. Thinking about it, it would be pretty hard to build the shrine.

Its supposed to be buildable by both a great trader and a great prophet.
I guess the problem is, there aren't any trader slots early, so the only way you can really get it is with Faufreluches.
But the Landsraad outpost should give you a trader slot, no? Which should be available shortly after founding the religion.

Maybe we could add a trader slot to the weather scanner building?
I don't think a scientist would make sense, and that might make it too easy.

I think its ok for there to be a bit of challenge in founding the shrine, and to have to work a little to get the right specialists.