Kosez
Sitting Wool
I don't see a big problem in linkage between religion and tech. Even so far connections between techs and thinds they enabled, wasn't very historically correct.
Religions
- Thread starter volbound1700
- Start date
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
Kosez and Oldstatesman are both right. A lot of people will learn the wrong thing from Civ. And Civ is filled with much more historical inaccuracies than what tech enabled what project. I'm not sure we can expect much more.
Yuri2356
Test Screening
Well, you're not 'locked' into choosing a religion once you discover the matching tech. As we've seen in the screenshots, you can just pass it by and wait for the next one to come along.oldStatesman said:
Thulsa Doom
Chieftain
Thunderfall said:
I just came back from a visit to a Hindu ashram. One of the first things they explained is that Hinduism is monotheistic, not polytheistic. Think of a man who's called dad, brother, boss, son, friend, etc. He's still the same person. Different humans relate better to different aspects, but it's all the same, single, deity.
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
Yeah, it's a fuzzy line. Even Christianity has the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Trinity, and yet one God.
mitsho
Deity
I'm only interested which of the two Christianity and Islam they will put with Monotheism and which with Theology?
mfG mitsho
mfG mitsho
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
Who says Judaism won't be with Monotheism?
mitsho
Deity
The number of 7 world religions tells me somehow that there's no place for this 'little' religion. (Also historically and from the number of believers it is just a too small group, sorry)
mfG mitsho
mfG mitsho
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
You have a point. I think something like 2% of the world's population is Jewish, compared to the double digits of the big three. But somehow, I couldn't see them passing it up, for its historical significance to the western world. Civ is a pretty western-centric game.
Gabryel Karolin
Gammelgädda
So which religions do you figure will be among the 7?
Christianity(catholic AND protestant?)
Islam
Buddhism
Hinduism
Shinto
??
still leaves atleast one
Christianity(catholic AND protestant?)
Islam
Buddhism
Hinduism
Shinto
??
still leaves atleast one
mitsho
Deity
- "Polytheism" in its broadest sense (If its Roman or Greek Or Egyptian or Carthaginian or Sumerian or Mayan or Aztec or Persian or or or)
- Animism as a really first sort of religion
- another Monotheistic (here Judaism is an option besides Zoroastrism or Mithras/Sol Victor)
- + all the Asian and American (African?) options I do not know well enough to decide between
- from gameplay reason: Perhaps they do not want every religion to start really early (all of the above are - in civ3 terms - ancient or early middle age), something that starts later on: Protestantism (leaves problem that Christianity is split into 2 with the third big part (orthodox) left away), (modern) sects, ....
You see, I haven't ruled out Judaism completely, it's just not top priority in my eyes.
mfG mitsho
- Animism as a really first sort of religion
- another Monotheistic (here Judaism is an option besides Zoroastrism or Mithras/Sol Victor)
- + all the Asian and American (African?) options I do not know well enough to decide between
- from gameplay reason: Perhaps they do not want every religion to start really early (all of the above are - in civ3 terms - ancient or early middle age), something that starts later on: Protestantism (leaves problem that Christianity is split into 2 with the third big part (orthodox) left away), (modern) sects, ....
You see, I haven't ruled out Judaism completely, it's just not top priority in my eyes.
mfG mitsho
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
Despite being a christian, I'd be slightly peeved if 3 out of 7 of the world religions were sects of christianity. Even 2. That would just push the game from slightly biased to blatantly so.
I just don't get this religion stuff so far... 
If I understand it well, certain religions will be tied to certain techs.
Now, will then certain such techs come sooner than others?
GUess, yes.
Say, hm, for instance, that the first religious tech is Polytheism.
Now, does it mean that the first civ to discover Polytheism
can FOUND the religion attached to it and
get the advantages of this founding???
(I think of the presumed influencing effect of MY FOUNDED religion
to other civs - maybe converting their cities, people to me?)
Does it really mean all other civs can adopt this religion (with Polytheism)
but with the notion that by this they pick up a main religion of an other civ?
Would not that be TOO much advantege for that civ which
first discovered Polytheism?
-
I just hope that all this above way thoughts-chain is in vain,
for the game will not play like this
If I understand it well, certain religions will be tied to certain techs.
Now, will then certain such techs come sooner than others?
GUess, yes.
Say, hm, for instance, that the first religious tech is Polytheism.
Now, does it mean that the first civ to discover Polytheism
can FOUND the religion attached to it and
get the advantages of this founding???
(I think of the presumed influencing effect of MY FOUNDED religion
to other civs - maybe converting their cities, people to me?)
Does it really mean all other civs can adopt this religion (with Polytheism)
but with the notion that by this they pick up a main religion of an other civ?
Would not that be TOO much advantege for that civ which
first discovered Polytheism?
-
I just hope that all this above way thoughts-chain is in vain,
for the game will not play like this
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
Yeah if Christian subsects (Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant) are in, then they should have subsects of other religions (Sunni + Shiite Islam, etc.)
In terms of best seven I'd say the big 4
Christianity
Islam
Buddhism
Hinduism (PS if one objects to polytheism causing Hinduism, just say it is a refinement of Polytheism that sees the truth behind the many gods that they are all one, as opposed to seeing one of those Gods as so overwhelmingly dominating the others that they are not even real...could be a good note for the developers in the civilopedia)
Then for the remaining 3
Judaism (due to lack of assimilation by its seperate, much larger offshoots)
Confucianism (probably...actually would be a good one for 'Code of Laws')
and any of
'Early' (sort of like despotism, some purely local starting default religion...if the model uses that)
Non-Theistic modern 'religions' (ie Humanism...Appears with Evolutionary Theory?)
'God-King' ...purely local with Monarchy
Shintoism (although this is more of a Buddhism subsect...or a modern example of the 'God-King')
In terms of best seven I'd say the big 4
Christianity
Islam
Buddhism
Hinduism (PS if one objects to polytheism causing Hinduism, just say it is a refinement of Polytheism that sees the truth behind the many gods that they are all one, as opposed to seeing one of those Gods as so overwhelmingly dominating the others that they are not even real...could be a good note for the developers in the civilopedia)
Then for the remaining 3
Judaism (due to lack of assimilation by its seperate, much larger offshoots)
Confucianism (probably...actually would be a good one for 'Code of Laws')
and any of
'Early' (sort of like despotism, some purely local starting default religion...if the model uses that)
Non-Theistic modern 'religions' (ie Humanism...Appears with Evolutionary Theory?)
'God-King' ...purely local with Monarchy
Shintoism (although this is more of a Buddhism subsect...or a modern example of the 'God-King')
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
V. Soma said:I just don't get this religion stuff so far...
If I understand it well, certain religions will be tied to certain techs.
Now, will then certain such techs come sooner than others?
GUess, yes.
Say, hm, for instance, that the first religious tech is Polytheism.
Now, does it mean that the first civ to discover Polytheism
can FOUND the religion attached to it and
get the advantages of this founding???
(I think of the presumed influencing effect of MY FOUNDED religion
to other civs - maybe converting their cities, people to me?)
Does it really mean all other civs can adopt this religion (with Polytheism)
but with the notion that by this they pick up a main religion of an other civ?
Would not that be TOO much advantege for that civ which
first discovered Polytheism?
-
I just hope that all this above way thoughts-chain is in vain,
for the game will not play like this
I think you are right but with the exception that founding a religion gives you no advantages as far as we can tell. (other than that the religion first appears in your country)
So if India founds Hinduism, they may then adopt it as an official religion, but It then spreads to neighboring countries who may then also adopt it as an official religion (with the happiness benefits and diplomatic effects that occur with that) [possibly even if they haven't dicovered polytheism yet]
So it is not like Philosophy where you want to Rush for a particular tech to get a bonus...let someone else rush to it and you get the bonus a few turns later.
The thing that concerns me about religion is that they offer no unique bonuses. I realize that religion is a touchy subject for many people and the developers probably decided to play it safe and make them generic. They wouldn't want to offend anybody by making one religion better for warmongers and one for peacemongers... I mean, builders. In the end we would probably just end up using the same religion every time because it was the "best", like the way most people here say Republic is the best government in Civ3.
So, back to my original point, because I was starting to contradict myself. Allthough I understant the idea of making all religions the same to appease the masses, what becomes the point if there is no difference? Why would I care if my nation is Buhdist or Christian? If there is no difference between religion A and religion B, they really are the same thing. They should have just made it generic and have for example...
"You have discovered religion, would you like to become a religious nation. You would get ... happy faces." (whatever the bonus of religion would be)
IMO, better still would be the made-up religions people here have suggested. The Cult of the Cow would get different bonuses than the Wheatanarians and the Worshipers of the Gold God. This would offend nobody (my apologies to any acutal Wheatanarians out there), and would enhance gameplay. Now I can choose the best religion that fits my goals in the game or my current situation.
In conclusion, these are just my thoughts at this time. Unfortunately, we are going on what little info and screenshots that have been made publicly available at this time. I am reserving my final judgement for when the game comes out. Hopefully they implement this religion thing as well as possible, and make it moddable to please those unhappy with the regular version.
So, back to my original point, because I was starting to contradict myself. Allthough I understant the idea of making all religions the same to appease the masses, what becomes the point if there is no difference? Why would I care if my nation is Buhdist or Christian? If there is no difference between religion A and religion B, they really are the same thing. They should have just made it generic and have for example...
"You have discovered religion, would you like to become a religious nation. You would get ... happy faces." (whatever the bonus of religion would be)
IMO, better still would be the made-up religions people here have suggested. The Cult of the Cow would get different bonuses than the Wheatanarians and the Worshipers of the Gold God. This would offend nobody (my apologies to any acutal Wheatanarians out there), and would enhance gameplay. Now I can choose the best religion that fits my goals in the game or my current situation.
In conclusion, these are just my thoughts at this time. Unfortunately, we are going on what little info and screenshots that have been made publicly available at this time. I am reserving my final judgement for when the game comes out. Hopefully they implement this religion thing as well as possible, and make it moddable to please those unhappy with the regular version.
Chinese American
Hamtastic Knight
religion does have an affect on gameplay, however subtle.
1, happiness
2. diplomacy
3, tech research (whichever is more convenient to start a religion)
they shouldn't start changing to make the game focus more on this matter, since everyone has different opinions anyway. the civics will be the controls for bonuses and stuff.
1, happiness
2. diplomacy
3, tech research (whichever is more convenient to start a religion)
they shouldn't start changing to make the game focus more on this matter, since everyone has different opinions anyway. the civics will be the controls for bonuses and stuff.
sir_schwick
Archbishop of Towels
What about this compromise:
First, you choose your religion and that by itself means nothing. Later techs allow you to set the direction of 'religious' evolution in more technical terms. This means you can make decisions along the way that make your Christianity or Islam more militant or trans-cultural or whatever works. That way the Christianity that emerges each game might be different, same with the others. Esesntially you do the same with CIvs now. If you play as the Aztecs, you see what would have happened if they are not colonized, etc.
First, you choose your religion and that by itself means nothing. Later techs allow you to set the direction of 'religious' evolution in more technical terms. This means you can make decisions along the way that make your Christianity or Islam more militant or trans-cultural or whatever works. That way the Christianity that emerges each game might be different, same with the others. Esesntially you do the same with CIvs now. If you play as the Aztecs, you see what would have happened if they are not colonized, etc.
dc82
Prince
religion def. can be a touchy subject, but i think making it generic may be inconsistent w/ the how civ has been handled - the game has always been based somewhat on history - good and bad. historically, christianity, hinduism, buddhism, etc. have made and continue to make an impact on people, culture, and world events. while understandably religion can be an awkward element, it can be just as awkward having germany take over the world, or mao leading china (in civ3), etc. it's just my opinion, but i rather still have my civ receive hinduism than the religion of space monkeys or something. haha, sorry that was random. lol
