Religions

[Anaztazioch]

Interesting. But not "convert", but spread.
When Poland converted to Christianity, it was nearelly instantly spread to all cities, but poganism remained. So in civ it would be like each city will have poganism and Christianity religion.

In Jewish, converting to Christianity, it would look like, some cities will have both Judaism and Christianity.
How high chance of spreading "new" religion will depend on "favorite" religion and "spiritial" traits.

 

[johny smith]

I just figured I would ask. Has anyone thought about adding a second religion layer to represent folk beliefs or pagan religions? I have had an idea in my head for a while to let the player possibly have two state religions at once. Like for example Celtic and Catholic. The idea was that the original folk belief still exist simultaneously with another religion. Other examples voodoo or Chinese folk religion. Or even things like Sufism with Sunni faiths.

This as well could help show the transition from the old supposed pagan religion to present day organized religions. Like Rome to Christianity.

Just wondering if you guys has anything like it in mind. And I really like what you have done.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

We're trying our best to represent folk beliefs with pagan temples, but, frankly, I don't know any significant examples of early pagan religions decisively influencing organized later religions, except for defining a "cultural background". All the basic tenets of Christianity are the same in Ireland and Italy (which is not the case between Italy and Netherlands, for example - but due to different reasons which we are going to implement sooner or later). So, all the influence pagan religions exert (via temples) will end upon adopting a modern religion. Still, in the upcoming version, pagan temples are going to be more useful.

 

[BareJag]

A good idea anyway.

 

[johny smith]

Well you guys are doing pretty good with adding more for pagan religions. Just want to let you know that first.

I am trying to make a new layer anyway for my own mod. I want other things as well like denominations for each religion, religion decay, and schisms for an example.

I do think there is differences though with the culture background still. And I think there is still significant folk beliefs now. China is first one that comes in my mind, but African diaspora religions is another I can think of. Celtic traditions were important for St Patrick. So it is not only the present I am thinking about.

Just asking though so I do not reinvent the wheel. Your mod is great though. I plan on using a lot your work if I ever make my mod. Of course I will say the stuff came from your mod that I use. Do you mind?

 

[Ankenaton]

This is a topic/concept that has come up in many of the conversations amongst the moderators concerning this concept. As an American of mixed African and Native American ancestry I understand what you are talking about concerning the continuing pagan influences (often we are not aware of them) still present amongst the orthodox forms of Christianity (the Yoruba based religions)and I believe Islam (as you point out the influence of Sufism). Amongst the African diaspora you have the continuing presence of Voodoo, Candomble, Santeria and other forms of the Yoruba religion that has been subsumed into the over arching Catholic belief structure. For example Saint Barbara is often used as a stand in for the so-called Yoruba god of war, thunder, lightning and father/leader of the other so-called deities in the pantheon. This was done to guard against the loss of their cultural and to prevent the people who enslaved them (the Spanish, French, Portuguese, Dutch and to a lesser extent the English) from finding out that they still practiced traditional beliefs. That being said I don't know of a way to express this in the game. Thanks for your thoughts in this matter and continue to post on this topic; as together we may come to a solution.

 

[Anaztazioch]

Shitno religion is considered as peganism in TR. In modern Japan its still as strong as Buddism. Another thing is that in World Wars peroid Shintoism was state religion of Japan and a tool of politicians to create a Nationalistic Japanese Empire.

 

[johny smith]

Shitno religion is considered as peganism in TR. In modern Japan its still as strong as Buddism. Another thing is that in World Wars peroid Shintoism was state religion of Japan and a tool of politicians to create a Nationalistic Japanese Empire.

That is why I am thinking two at the same time. Japan has had both since Buddhism came. The most important thing I thought can the religion exist with another. If it can then it is part of a second religion layer. If not then it stays in the first layer. Anyway that is why I was thinking a second layer. But this is not a thread just about what I am thinking. Thanks again.

 

[Echo427]

Maybe a second layer for each religion, after all it would allow you to better represent the divisions of the world's major religions, such as Catholics and Protestants or Sunni and Shiites.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Maybe a second layer for each religion, after all it would allow you to better represent the divisions of the world's major religions, such as Catholics and Protestants or Sunni and Shiites.

One day, we'll implement it. Already given much thought and discussion to this topic.

 

[_random_]

My 3 cents:
It's pretty idiotic that religions' foundings coincide exactly with discovery of technology. Perhaps they could change the message to something like: "Our proper understanding of (tech) has caused (religion) to flourish within our borders!" It would be a pure aesthetic change, but it would be a tad more realistic. Also, regarding schisms within religions, perhaps there could a set of traits representing the various prominent theological debates within a religion. It would work like the civics system, so for Christianity one of the choices could be between infant baptism and believers' baptism. Like civics, the closer you were to a fellow civ's set of options, the more they would like you. Great Prophets might randomly discover new options in addition to doing whatever it is you want them to do. The only problem is the lack of incentive to change, but you could probably think of something! Finally, you could replace shrines with relics. They would work the same way, except you would have to have some sort of "cathedral" to enshrine the relics in the city of your choice, and crusaders would have the ability steal relics and take them to another city with a cathedral. This could make for some really fun capture the flag gameplay until crusaders go obsolete. I hope you will consider these ideas and, until then, I look forward to being the rightful owner of the Crown of Thorns in my next game of Civ!

 

[_random_]

Well don't all respond at once...

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Religion founding is all right in my book as it is. As written above, we might implement founding schizmatic religions via GPs. The idea of relics is a very interesting one, but it would require quite a lot of SDK work. We might implement it sometime.