Religions

[Shoobs]

This is going to, again, be about the now, the risk, and the rewards...


Do you go for the early religions ( Shamanism, Druidism, Tengrilism, Meso ) or try to wait for something that will be more long term, EVEN WITHOUT the bonuses that would best suit the religions ( Shamanism with no serious amounts of animal resources, druidism without serious amounts of agri resources, tengrilism without mounts )

 

[Thunderbrd]

We should move this thread to the Strategy and Tips forum since that's the nature of it rather than design discussion.

My answer is it all depends on how competitive a game I'm playing. If competitive enough I'll let other nations grab some religions I deem to not be as valuable to my strategies employed for that game.

 

[Shoobs]

I'm a little confused, is not the base forum meant to discuss things and talk with other players? Why would this be moved to a tips section that would end up getting buried and forgotten? Its not like I'm throwing out an amazing amount of tips or something since I'm a new player.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Strategy discussions should be in Tips and tricks is all. Not accusing you of doing anything wrong. Players should get comfortable using that section anyhow

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Since I am still getting all most all the religions - no comment

Shamanism has been changed with all the new animals but Druidism has not been changed for all the new crops.

Tengrii is supposed to let you have horses even if you don't have any initially.

Our tech tree is a bit wrong with the religions apperring at the wrong dates at the moment.

 

[Shoobs]

Tengrii lets you have horses when you DON"T have horses? Really. That is a resource I do not have at all on my island atm.

 

[tmv]

You can build tamed horses in the animal trainer complex as long as you have any animal you can ride and a stable.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Tengrii lets you have horses when you DON"T have horses? Really. That is a resource I do not have at all on my island atm.

You will need to acquire a Horse resource 1st before Tengrii lets you build horsemen Thru the Religions buildings.

So in your situation you will need to try and trade for Horse at some point. Then build the National Horse Building and then Animal Trainer Complex to spread horses to different cities by building Herd from Tamed horse. There is a process you have to go thru.

JosEPh

 

[JosEPh_II]

You can build tamed horses in the animal trainer complex as long as you have any animal you can ride and a stable.

But to get a stable you have to have Horse, Elephant and/or camel resource. I have yet had a stable allowed to be built with only Bison or Bear riders. I think the same is true for Deer rider as well. Not sure about llama though.

JosEPh

 

[TrippedOnACloud]

I always try to acquire at least one of Shamanism or Druidism, whether by research (usually doesn't happen, because I play on very high difficulty levels) or by conquest, for the extremely powerful "No unhealth from buildings" effect that the tier 3 buildings (the ones that require X number of Invocation Huts or Nature Circles of Power) give. Shamanism is more powerful at the moment due to its greater number of animal-linked buildings and the availability of Herd buildings for spreading animal resources.

Tengriism's main advantage is no longer quite as strong as it used to be, due to the earlier availability of Breeding Pair - Horse, but it effectively allows you to spread horse-availability for purposes of unit training and some buildings at a much earlier stage of the tech tree. It also offers significant benefits to early warmongers through increased military production (Shaman's Yurta), promotions for mounted units (Wind Horse I/II), and XP for mounted units (Ger).

As for other religions, I tend towards a "gotta catch'em all" approach. Then again, I also play with Divine Prophets, which lets me choose the site of the holy city for religions I want (most of them), or use the Great Prophet for something else with more immediate benefits.

 

[Shoobs]

Personally I believe you should role play it a bit, make goals and try not to be the gamey win ( all religions, thereby forcing your enemies to weaker than you because they can't get any religions at all ). But that is me. Right now I'm playing an English game that is going for the germanic religion and avoiding the other religions and ...somehow, without slavery OR religion, I'm in slot 1 in terms of advancement and cities. But then... I'm on a solitary island and have expansion opportunities to the northeast that houses a rather weak civilization.

Strangely, I haven't had a single barb city spawn on my lands. If animals and barbarians are constantly cleared out by hunters and etc, does this reduce the chance of enemy ciities? "cause jesus, I can't believe how calm this game has been. Its raging barbarians!

 

[Thunderbrd]

But then... I'm on a solitary island and have expansion opportunities to the northeast that houses a rather weak civilization.

Strangely, I haven't had a single barb city spawn on my lands. If animals and barbarians are constantly cleared out by hunters and etc, does this reduce the chance of enemy ciities? "cause jesus, I can't believe how calm this game has been. Its raging barbarians!

You might not be on a large enough land mass for them. Also, how far into the game are you?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Strangely, I haven't had a single barb city spawn on my lands. If animals and barbarians are constantly cleared out by hunters and etc, does this reduce the chance of enemy ciities? "cause jesus, I can't believe how calm this game has been. Its raging barbarians!

No clearing animals should have no effect on the spawning of barbarian cities. In my experience clearing out a barbarian city is almost guaranteed to make a new one spawn there. However spawning is random and sometimes I don't get any near me at all in a game.

 

[Shoobs]

A)
Large enough to fit 30ish or so ciites, and I still have room. I also started on the Northern end of the island and did not leave much distance between my cities, leaving teh southern end of the island almost utterly bare and animal heavy for a long time ( which, I obviously hunted with wild abandon ).
No horses, donkeys, or other beasts of burden existed on my island surprisingly enough, with the exception of Elephants and I never got the Myth.
Just #*(@tons of bears, of which I was too late to the party to utilize bear riders.

b)
I have not had any significant barbarian presence except for one plumed archer I destroyed with a master ranger.

C)
The game is on snail and has it ~900 BC, I researched Monarchy about 80-100 turns ago. The map is fairly large with ~15 starting civilizations and there have been multiple, as far as I"m aware, ( WB ) that have popped up due to barbarian cities growing too large.

This is V36, but I don't think the changes between v36 and all the SVNs matter when it comes to the severe overall heavy lack of barbarian presense... though it might have something to do with the fact I've been #1 in culture for a looooong time with the gap growing wider every turn.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Yes it makes a Huge difference with you using v36. Barbarians have changed very very much since last October of 2015.

And the Options you select for game set up in conjunction with Raging Barbs can have a major impact on the # of barb cities in a game for v36.

JosEPh

 

[Shoobs]

With what I recall.. given the spawning mechanism of barbarians in general, they get cities randomly placed, usually in unrevealed terrain. I normally have several single stacked hunters roaming the land, alone, and have scouts set up to pull subdued animals back as necessary. But that really shouldn't matter.
I set the barbarians to the highest possible aggression level I could short of barbarian world and I did not use Minor Civilizations as I heard that gimps the ai pretty rightfully. I am playing on emperor.
Given the size of the map is quite substantial, and there are already over two hundred cities overall on the map, ( estimated ), with tons of space to still expand...... and the fact barbarian cities have spawned multiple times across the other lands ( I've looked ), with a few becoming "normal" civilizations, I can assure you that with the space I had where no to minimal barbs spawned.... I honestly think this is just a strange artifact of the barbarian spawn code and is not necessarily a desire to make you do anything. I'm more discussing a game than trying to make you do something. Just know this isn't the only game I've had this sort of thing happen in.
I also ask you to bring up the actual possible changes to barbarians spawning if you believe the SVN has actually changed the overall way the barbs spawned - as far as I know its just herbivores, predators, neanderthals, and proper barbarians as their own factions which could be regarding just about anything, as well as barbarians being able to attack either other. I don't think it'll do a massive change to my play style.

 

[Thunderbrd]

There have been significant changes to barb spawning since v36. If you were providing feedback on a current set of assets, it could be useful. But the changes have been so fundamental that there that feedback from v36 would have no relevance to our current situation there.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Barbarians and barbarian cities will not spawn in areas you can currently see. They will spawn in areas that have not been explored at all or are currently covered in "the fog of war" as it is called. Wild animals will also spawn in those areas plus areas outside your border that you can see. There is an option that will allow wild animals to spawn inside your borders, I don't use it.

As I said before, I have had games where no barbarian city spawns in a huge area next to me and I have had others where they spawn faster that I can deal with them. That is the nature of a random process.

The SVN has not made any changes to the way barbarians spawn from BtS, although I believe some work is intended there. Animal spawning is completely changed in C2C with spawn locations happening roughly in line with Earth locations. The map has been split into 6 segments with random maps having the Western third being the Americas, central Europe and Africa and East Asia and Oceania. The animals have been split into 3 factions to support the idea of predators and prey for those who want the animals to combat each other and give a more ecological feel to hunting. A new type of barbarian has been added Neanderthals they use both sets of spawning mechanism as far as I know. There is an option to have them make cites. I turn Neanderthals of as I feel they are not fun.

 

[Shoobs]

So... as an FYI, I am just chatting about the experiences, not providing feedback as to whats broken about v36. That stuff is far too in the past, and I agree with that. Not everything needs to be seen as 'what can we do to make this player's experience better', and imo the focus on that actually removes my enjoyment.


Regarding Hoskuld, my takeaway is that I just have too many hunters ( lol ). 4 Masters, all with tons of promotions, in particular movement bonuses that give them upwards of 6 movement from 2, thus able to kill six animals in a single turn, with 5 normal, all upgraded with terrain movement bonuses, all in hunt mode which has them all over the land revealing, repeatedly, the fog of war every turn and thus making it almost impossible for barbarians or barbarian cities to spawn, similar to the old Civ4 base strategy of parking units outside of your cities to avoid barbarian uprisings being too close to home....except in this case they're all highly mobile and flipping more seen this terrain this turn flags than should be possible.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

So... as an FYI, I am just chatting about the experiences, not providing feedback as to whats broken about v36. That stuff is far too in the past, and I agree with that. Not everything needs to be seen as 'what can we do to make this player's experience better', and imo the focus on that actually removes my enjoyment.


Regarding Hoskuld, my takeaway is that I just have too many hunters ( lol ). 4 Masters, all with tons of promotions, in particular movement bonuses that give them upwards of 6 movement from 2, thus able to kill six animals in a single turn, with 5 normal, all upgraded with terrain movement bonuses, all in hunt mode which has them all over the land revealing, repeatedly, the fog of war every turn and thus making it almost impossible for barbarians or barbarian cities to spawn, similar to the old Civ4 base strategy of parking units outside of your cities to avoid barbarian uprisings being too close to home....except in this case they're all highly mobile and flipping more seen this terrain this turn flags than should be possible.

Doesn't matter if you saw it this turn. It is what is in the fog at the end of the turn that counts. That is why you park the units to keep the terrain visible at the end of the turn, if you just pass through it is back in the fog before the end of turn so barbarians can spawn there.