Spartan117
Immortal
skadistic said:
seriously how many doctors get shot for being related to abortion? i never really heard of this much before off topic.
and the stoning of rapists(or other people) i think is only in islam and judiasm...
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"Religon of peace"
- Thread starter nc-1701
- Start date
seriously how many doctors get shot for being related to abortion? i never really heard of this much before off topic.
and the stoning of rapists(or other people) i think is only in islam and judiasm...
sonorakitch
Overseas hunter
sysyphus said:
About 7 abortion doctors
And those dirty cinema owners
Dude, your off your rocker.
~Chris
Urederra
Mostly harmless
Spartan117 said:
And anybody else sees a flaw in logic when others try to argue that Islam is a religion of peace because Christianity isn't?
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Somehow, with Islam's bloody history of forcefully imposing it's beliefs onto other people and conquring nations in the Middle East does not sound to me that Islam is a religion of peace. Christianity however is a religion of peace. Take a look in Ancient Roman History before Christianity became a state religion. Christians were persecuted left and right, killed for their faith. Even early Christians were encuraged not to enlist in the Roman Army.Urederra said:
Spartan117
Immortal
Urederra said:
i havent made that argument...that argument does not mean much
correct me if i am wrong did skadistic imply ther are large numbers of people who are christian rape victims that are stoned to death? or that the number does not mean muh similar to abortion doctors who get shot does not mean much?
skadistic
Caomhanach
I was asking how many abortion docters had been shot in the head. The person I was responding to tried to say christianity is just as violent as islam because of a few incidents. I asked the questions as an attempt to show that infact the numbers are so very small compared to numbers of islamic violence like beheadings in allahs name or the stoning of rape victoms. I'm willing to bet the numbers of stoned muslim rape victoms far exceeds the number of christian doctors with head shots.Spartan117 said:
Urederra
Mostly harmless
Spartan117 said:
I know, I was supporting your point of view, (or trying to). I am too lazy to find the ones who say that Islam is a religion as much religion of peace as christianity.
To say that Islam is violent in nature is ignorant. Every religion is a religion of peace. It's not the religion that is the problem, but the power-hungry people in charge who uses religion as an excuse to justify their actions.
As for Islam, I admit its early history is violent. However, the Prophet and his followers lived in turbulent times. The early Muslim campaigns against the Meccans stem from persecution of their religion by the wealthy Meccan oligarchs, while their expansion into the rest of the Near East stem not as much from religion as a quest for land.
As for Islam, I admit its early history is violent. However, the Prophet and his followers lived in turbulent times. The early Muslim campaigns against the Meccans stem from persecution of their religion by the wealthy Meccan oligarchs, while their expansion into the rest of the Near East stem not as much from religion as a quest for land.
skadistic
Caomhanach
To say islam isn't violent is igronant. How can you say that a religion based on forced conversion isn't violent? More then half of the muslim world is so by sword point. You admit that Islams early history is violent but what about its later history? How about its preasant? Does the Sudan not count? Tell me how was it Islam spread across north Africa and into India.taillesskangaru said:
skadistic said:
1) Read the bit about land grabbing.
2) Read the bit about power-hungry people who uses religion as an excuse to conquer new lands and riches for themselves, as in the case of India and North Africa. There's plenty, and not just in Islam.
3) When early Muslim conquerors invade Mesopotamia, many, including Christians, welcomed the Muslim, because many are tired of heavy taxes and religious orthodoxy imposed by the Byzantine and Sassanid Empire. The early Muslim rulers adopt these policies when dealing with "People of the Book"
- they allowed them to continue practising their religion, but require them to pay a special tax. Many convert to Islam to escape paying these taxes.
- they decide to learn as much as possible from the original inhabitants, who had lived in these areas and held the key to understanding ancient Greek, Persian and Roman knowledge. Although they had the knowledge, the best jobs eg in administration goes to the Muslim conqueror. Many convert to Islam to improve their job prospects.
- many also convert in order to succeed in trade in the increasingly-properous Islamic world. This is the case with places such as Maldives, Malaysia, Indonesia.
Indeed, many Christians who weren't members of the official church of the area had more religious freedom under the Muslims, ans did almost all Jews.
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
And just how many of them are there?sysyphus said:
Numbers are immaterial. Point is that you asked when have Christians ever been violent, I have given you a case. I don't have exact numbers, but I can think of a number of times when Christian terrorists have murdered abortion doctors and even attacked women headed into abortion clinics.
I also forgot the KKK who have murdered many in the name of Chirstianity.
I also forgot the KKK who have murdered many in the name of Chirstianity.
Adamb0mb
Lawless
skadistic said:
Thats because our strong goverment has gotten the religious folks in line and now everybody (mostly) behaves. Gonna take a little while to convince the muslims on the other side of the world to play along.
What the pope said didn't help.
The Tollan
Prince
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2005
- Messages
- 418
Whether a religion is peaceful or violent really depends on what the religion itself teaches. Where the tenets of a religion are thought to come from vary. Many are set down in writings or a text. Often a religion will hold to the possibility of gaining information through religious experience (though experiences that are not religious yet said to be so often must be weeded out). Most of the current major world religions do not derive their teachings from their nominal followers. Note nominal indicates only those who say that they following a particular religion.
For example if you want to know whether x religion is peaceful or violent examine the sources of religious authority and the mandates of x.
Now the issue of interpretation or where the sources of authority are located can cause disputes about what x teaches however that does not really affect the fact that the sources of authority are what count in determining what a given religion teaches.
On a similar note an ideology is usually defined by a certain set of principles. If a political leader wants to change the definition of an ideology to help themself out that generally does not change the fact that their was an original definition (somewhat like a cult).
For example if you want to know whether x religion is peaceful or violent examine the sources of religious authority and the mandates of x.
Now the issue of interpretation or where the sources of authority are located can cause disputes about what x teaches however that does not really affect the fact that the sources of authority are what count in determining what a given religion teaches.
On a similar note an ideology is usually defined by a certain set of principles. If a political leader wants to change the definition of an ideology to help themself out that generally does not change the fact that their was an original definition (somewhat like a cult).
The religion of Islam (and other mentioned religons) is peaceful. This holds true to just about any religion except things like satan worship and other wacko cults. This does not mean that idiots don't hijack these religions and try and create violence from it. We must seperate the simple islamic from the terrorist just as we must seperate the christian from the crusader.
skadistic
Caomhanach
Satan worship? What about it is violent? Idiots hijacking islam? Yea its just a few idiots............. a few houndred thousand (thats a lowball estimate). You can seperate the christian from the crusader because that was hundreds upon hundreds of years ago. Lets talk about today. Islam, a religion founded in violence by a violent man preaching violence and spread by violence is reacting violently to being called violent to refute the claim that its violent.HawkeyeGS said:
greenpeace
Peacelord
I am going to focus on this, since I am Buddhist (not Zen Buddhist however). Saying that a Buddhist would commit crimes in the name of Buddha is not only ridiculous and ignorant it is offensive. No true Buddhist would ever do such a thing. The reason being is that it is a core fundamental philosophy that everybody can be a perfect Buddha and thus you would be killing that who you are defending. Unlike in America and the whole "war on terror" in which are crippling ourselves, Buddhists beleive that such foolishness is foolish. Of course, you might get some lunatic who isn't actually Buddhist, however, that ablies to basically all religions.nc-1701 said:
Now back to the broader subject, although I am not completly fluent in the other religions I'm sure that the above aplies to other religions as well. Muslim as well as most other religious groups believe in equality an brother and that does aplly to not only Islam, but the other ones you mentioned as well, Christianinty and Judiasm. No religion preaches that we should execute the non-believers, it is only a couple of extremist that happen to spring about that interpret in such a way that they think they should.
Basically stated, no major religion originally called for the destruction of other human beings.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
nc-1701 said:I hate the crap on the news/paper etc about how Islam is really a religon of peace when the most violent Religons in the world are Judaism, Christianity, and of course Islam.
Why can people not realize that any and all religons which call for the forceible coversion of folowers are by definition not peacefull? So enough crap about how peacefull Islam we know that like ALL other monotheastic religons it is an inherently violent one?
In fact about the only peacefull religon I can think of right now is Zen-Buddhism but I'm sure I'll find some horrible crimes committed in the name of Buddha if I look hard enough.
But wh is Islam the one that is both blamed as being the violent one when most all are violent, and why is it called "peace loving" when it is clearly not?
ATM I'm
I'll open a bottle of wine to celebrate the day, when people stop excusing evil by stupid analogies.
The first thing I hear every time I say that Islam is inherently more violent religion that others is "but Christianity is also violent, they killed many people during Crusades and there wa inquisition and blah blah blah".
Like it somehow excused the idiots who blow themselves up in restaurants.
Like I said many times before, if we know that adherents of certain religion do bad things more often than adherents of other religions, we have to ask WHY. Preferably by looking at the basis of the religion itself, its holy texts, traditions, clerics who preach it. There, we have to look for certain signs, such as prophet's command to spread the faith by sword. If we learn, that such things are part of the religion, and that its adherents indeed follow them or use them to excuse violence, we can call the religion violent.
By using this methodology, we can easily compare two biggest religions - Christianity and Islam. Inevitably, we come to conclusion, that compared to Islam, Christianity is almost pacifist religion.
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