Removed "DoC Maps" Button in World Builder, and Map Design Philosophy Generally

[LikeNothing]

Greetings Mighty Leoreth,

Please excuse me for asking, but I see in the Git Update Log: 'removed "DoC Maps" and "Stored Data" buttons in world builder'.

• Does this mean these functions (editing the DoC Maps and Stored Data) will no longer be available in the world builder from now on?
• I thought these functions are helpful customization options for the player.
• Again, please excuse me for asking instead of checking - I could not run the Git version well, only the installer version.

And if you would like to tell us more about the motivation behind removing this feature, I think many players would appreciate.

More generally, for Stability/Settler/War maps, have you considered using a province system like RFC Europe, for the larger map in 1.18?

• Such a system would be more robust, modular, and customizable for a larger map.
• It makes sense for history/realism too (like the de jure maps in Crusader Kings).
• It would also obviate most of the need for a DoC Maps button in the World Builder, since it becomes very easy to edit maps.

Finally, I'd like to say I am looking forward to 1.17 more than 1.18 because I find RFC/DoC's small and cramped map rather enjoyable.

• On such a map every city has its own unique character and thus interesting.
• On a larger map like RFC Europe, cities become less distinguishable - e.g. barely any difference between Paris and Tours.
  • A long as the size of the city's BFC remains the same (21 tiles), there are a fixed and finite number of variety of cities.
  • Larger map --> more cities --> each city more likely to have a city more similar to it.
  • This "crowding of variety space" effect is mitigated by introducing new varieties, e.g. new map resources or features.
• I also find micromanaging more than a dozen cities to be exhausting.
  • This is mainly due to the turn-based game structure of CIV. One usually cycles through each city in a turn.
  • My intuition is that AI does this as well, so the larger map will also slow down already slow late game turn speed further.
  • I think this is a major motive behind "One City Challenges" in CIV and many other 4X games (such as Stellaris).
• Given the age of CIV, RFC, DoC, the number of older players of DoC is higher than for many other games.
  • Older players tend to have less time & energy for micromanagement and may enjoy more the more compact and agile smaller map.
• Since you plan to discontinue the small map, I expect to stay on 1.16.7 or 1.17 for a while.
  • You might consider keeping this version as the "Grandfathered Version for Grandpas".

Thank You & Live Long and Prosper!

 

[Temujin8k]

Please excuse me for asking, but I see in the Git Update Log: 'removed "DoC Maps" and "Stored Data" buttons in world builder'.

• Does this mean these functions (editing the DoC Maps and Stored Data) will no longer be available in the world builder from now on?
• I thought these functions are helpful customization options for the player.
• Again, please excuse me for asking instead of checking - I could not run the Git version well, only the installer version.

And if you would like to tell us more about the motivation behind removing this feature, I think many players would appreciate.

The reason it has been removed is that I did not create it and do not want to maintain it at the moment.

 

[Leoreth]

I still don't think the larger map will be at a resolution where regions make sense. I also think you overestimate how much of an impact it really makes on the decision making in most game situations.

Like said above, I removed the features you mentioned because they were broken and I did not want to invest any work into fixing them. Honestly, I don't think the world builder is the right way to go about changing anything relating to stability maps and the like. With the introduction of the new map, there will be changes to how these maps work that will hopefully make them more accessible to edit.

 

[Vera]

I am not sure if it's the right thread, apologies for that, I haven't been here for a while.
I've just downloaded the last available version and started to play after a few years break. I normally look around the world builder to check and modify things according to what and how I like. It was a long time ago, so my memories might trick me, but I think I was able to modify the stability maps before. Is it taken out or I just cannot find it?

 

[Leoreth]

Yes, that option is no longer supported.

 

[Vera]

Yes, that option is no longer supported.

Which is the latest version where it's still available?

 

[Leoreth]

1.16

 

[Vera]

1.16

Thank you. Do you have a working link for that version? The one in the 1.16 release thread leads to 1.17.

 

[Leoreth]

You should be able to find multiple releases in the sourceforge link. Alternatively, you can go via github.