Replay #3 Coming closer Wastin :D

I gave the big score thing a try with Incas. Very nearly got 3 Mil on a normal sized map.

The maintenance costs for Sushi were ridiculous! Like 200 gold per turn in the big cities without a courthouse.



I also used random events, so I could string together 5 golden ages without stopping in true HOF style. :p

The inflation event in nice too.




This is a very nice thread! Always nice to see another person who likes this game as much as I do.
 
Eeeeeh. When I saw that competition-thing on normal speed, I thought of you. And then you magically appear. :)

Looks like a cool game you had. 200 GPT, need to see that!

Where is the game? Hmmm...I guess that wasn't submitted.
 
I wish you luck Seraiel in your attempts to best Wastin's 3.2Mil, which certainly seems like an impossible task.



I've always wondered if it would be possible to calculate how many population you must add to your empire to maintain the same end score for each turn since that is 90%ish of your score.
That way you could know ahead of time when the best time to end the game would be and plan a war to finish the game with maximum city captures. For example:

T405 - Need to add 7 more population this turn to maintain the same score.
T450 - Need to add 8 more population this turn to maintain the same score.
T490 - Need to add 9 more population this turn to maintain the same score.

It is possible using buffy to sort all kinds of things, including how many turns before a city grows. You could use such a table and look at the buffy future population list to get a feel for when your score will peak roughly.



I guess ultimately what it really comes down to is, how fast can you found Sid's Sushi? :lol:



If only Charlemagne could war as well as Incas. His special courthouse gives -75% maintenance instead of -50%, which is really useful with the awe inspiring Sushi maintenance costs.

I have suspicions that the larger the map is, the smaller the highest possible score is. Having more AI to conquer/get gold from/trade with is a plus, but the number of resources needed to get the same +food from a corporation scales too while the number of turns to get them in does not.

Civ 4 is a pretty good game to ponder sometimes.
 
The larger the map is, the smaller the highest possible score is. Having more AI to conquer/get gold from/trade with is a plus, but the number of resources needed to get the same +food from a corporation scales too while the number of turns to get them in does not.

Civ 4 is a pretty good game to ponder sometimes.
The thing is, the way the score is calulated, it's beneficial to have a higher Max Population, favouring larger sizes (i.e 1500/3000 will score higher than 150/300), so it's a balancing act between that and the number of sushi resources you can get.
 
I've always wondered if it would be possible to calculate how many population you must add to your empire to maintain the same end score for each turn since that is 90%ish of your score.
I wrote a calculator for exactly that. http://www.dos486.com/civ4/index/calc.shtml

I've been trying a few high score Sushi games myself too. With 4000 population on a standard size map on Marathon, you need to add about 20 population each turn, in the timeframe somewhere around turn 500.
 
I wrote a calculator for exactly that. http://www.dos486.com/civ4/index/calc.shtml

I've been trying a few high score Sushi games myself too. With 4000 population on a standard size map on Marathon, you need to add about 20 population each turn, in the timeframe somewhere around turn 500.

Oh this is very nice! I punched in my numbers and it predicted the outcome exactly. Population was 97.576% of my score.

It says on T475 I need to add 14.4 ish population to my empire to maintain the same score when I hit next turn :goodjob:



I also see that my idea for a table of pre-calulated results wouldn't be as simple as I thought.
The iMax value for population is different for each map and for each size of map. Also, as the population increases, the additional population needed to maintain the same score next turn also changes and might be rather hard to reflect using even a spreadsheet. I see the calculator tool you've made is the best way to answer any score questions.
Also, I see your calculator is also available in spreadsheet form should I wish to experiment. :love:

Some results:
I also looked up the Imax value on a Huge map compared to a Normal map, and it seems you need 25% more total population to achieve the same score on the same turn, but you have roughly 125% more map to put cities on. So it seems my suspicions of larger maps having lower theoretical scores is also wrong. However, the vast distances and extra Sushi resources along with Sushi spreading speed limitations might nulify the extra cities somewhat since everything is on a timer. Maybe with airports to spread the Sushi executives hrmm.
 
@T-Hawk

Fantastic tool! :goodjob:

Kind of disappointing to see Victory Type, amount of vassals etc etc are not counted at all.
 
Ok, I'm back with the 2nd last part of the Writeup, as I need a pause from my current game, the one I posted Screens from. Game totally sucked, went Free Religion with Shwedagon Paya, poorest choice I've made for long time. Nobody hated me, but nobody liked me either, found no Tech-Trade-Partners at all and had to tech everything myself :mad: . Anyway, the map was so insanely good and I showed much better Macro and Micro, so that I was able to reach Sushi at 130 AD, sometimes I had as much as 2000 :science / turn without building Wealth and anything.
Then I made the choice to go for Cultural Victory this time, as I've never seen the Film shown :D . Will beat Ossis game if something doesn't go completely wrong now and maybe I'll even beat the Score of this game, so stay tuned :) .


Here are the years 500 AD -765 AD Part 1


Ok, it's been so long ago, that I have to get a clearview myself. Here is the Tech-Screen:



Basically I crawled my way to Physics until I discovered that I built way too many buildings and way too little Wealth. I also had to tech Democracy as I missed the Mids in this game and use a US + Kremlin Executive-rush tactic to spread Sushi as fast as possible. Physics was mainly for Airships to be used together with Cavs, strong Combo, but very much :science: invested for a very late war. Reaching Physics was also for the GP from it, something I think I overestimated in that game. A 4th golden Age is a possible move, but burning 3 GPs for 24 turns of GA is just something that I'd do again as I like the playstyle, I know from my current game (the one mentioned above) that one can also do with only 3 GAs and from then on use the GPs for whatever seems best, the difference between the options really isn't so great.

My Vassals have taken over the research part for me, here is a Screen from the Scoreboard:



You see me with a lot of happy peacevassals doing all the work for me. Anyway, this is totally unimportant, because the Screen really shows a very poor Macro from me in that game. 44 cities at 500 AD on a Huge Map with low Sealvl? I should have had about 80 at that time, but as I'm no very experienced player, I just missed it, built (as already mentioned) way to many buildings instead of Settlers and Galleons.

What really shined in this game though was my Diplo, as you see basically everybody likes me the most of all, the point why I got so many peacevassals (in my current game with running Free Religion, they all denied with the answer "We couldn't betray our close friends" ) .

It's 500 BC, and the Incan Empire is in the last phase of the 4th GA, here are some further Screenshots on the status of the game:



Sushi has been spread to all cities and is generating an insane amount of almost 30 :food: . I used Slavery aswell as US for that. Executives can be 2pop-whipped quite well with large OF, and after that, the 2nd Executive can be baught very cheap. Money and time are the big problems here, you can see the also insane amount of maintenance caused by the huge amount of Sushi-Ressources, -60 :gold: as an average / city!
I think if playing with so much :food: and so many cities, the only real way is to build almost all Cottages, let's have a look what the financial advisor says:



A surplus of 1500 GPT looks quite amazing, and it is still very solid and allows to rush many things, i. e. the Executives (about 350 :gold: each) , Granaries, Lighthouses, but the Courthouses already are a big problem as they cost about 1k! Setting up a new city takes about 3k even with Kremlin if one only builds the most necessary buildings. By adding a Bank (makes sense if running at 0%) and a Grocer (for :health: ) it easily goes up to 5k, and those island-cities have zero production, you know that. Keep in mind, that this Screen was also from within the last GA, GPT will be a lot lower in the following ones.

I still don't decide to expand further though :mad: . WastinTime will laugh at me, actually most of my cities are building Levees, Harbors, some are even building Hospitals! Not even one is building a Settler, have a look at the Domestic Advisor:



Yer. Anyway, I make at least one decision that helped to get some cities and continue with the game, I upgrade all HAs / Knights / Cuirrassiers to Cavs in 535 AD!



The Upgrade actually was only possible, because I built the Statue of Liberty and nearly all AIs must have tried to build it also. Mansa seemed to be the most eager one on it, he had 2000 Failgold for which I traded with pleasure.
What you can also see on the screen is the power-ratio of me against the AI, which is, tbh, a little higher then I reminded it to be ^^ I must have really whipped the hell out of the GT-City of Berlin to produce so many Cavs, and I got an Airforce of 20 Airships on plus of that... And, you can see that Mansa got peacevassal #5, but let's have a look at the war, it's going against Cyrus, Suleiman and Salladin!

This is a Screen I really wanted to show to you:



This is what's called ROFLStomping someone or Blitzing with overwhelming Force. 8 cities are in Revolt at the same time and the troops are directly before Suleis Capital. You may also notice, that Cyrus' power-rating has dropped to 8.9 and that he capitulated XD

600 AD, so only 9 turns after having started the war, it's over. I accept the capitulation from Suleiman and Salladin. Status of the Incan Empire now: 60 cities 30% of total landmass 50% of total population!

I look for further targets to conquer, but cannot find anyone, because Pericles has a defensive pact with Viccy. Her Redcoats are nothing I want to fight with my Cavs atm, so I look further: Roosevelt also has a defensive Pact with Viccy, what's wrong with those guys!
Only possible target would be Augustus Caesar, but he has only 5 relatively bad cities on the continent, I decide to spare him and I don't wanna engage in an overseas war against Lizzy, Willem or Lincoln, so finally I decide to settle some more Islands!

At least, running US and having a good surplus of :gold: , and, having Galleons still parket at the islands I own already, let's me do some fast island-hopping and helps to setup those new cities really fast.

605 AD: Foundation of Kalun and Denizli, cities 61 and 62.

620 AD: 130 Sushi-Ressources now. Cyrus and Suleis cities are coming out of revolt one after another, and my money goes down like nothing. I have to buy more Sushi-Executives and Courthouses. FYI: 1 Sushi-Ressource alone lowers my GPT by 30! Here is an update of the financial Advisor:



At the income, we have 900 worked tiles creating 2100 :gold: . This tells us, that most cottages are still very small, and have to grow. The other big part of the income are the Trade-Routes, creating an amount of 1500 :gold: . This is due to the cities having grown so large and because of all the overseas trade.
Without having all those Banks, Grocers and Markets now, the empire would be completely broke or even on strike, so those are buildings one really has to build in a Sushi-approach on a Huge map, because at the side of the expenses, we have a 4000 :gold: only for city maintenance. Note, that 3500 of this maintenance is only caused by Sushi!
Civic upkeep atm only plays a minor role, but with empires of this size, it's really important to run low or no-cost Civics like Nationhood, Pacifism, Free Speech, Free Religion and even think about running HR. The Difference between running Organized Religion or Pacifism are already 200 GPT!
 
The years 500 AD - 765 AD Part 2!


Expansion goes further:

630 AD: Foundation of Cherokee, city #63.

635 AD: Foundation of Bejing, Yasoharpura, Babylon and El Ashmunein, cities 65-68 (forgot to mention one) .

Microing all those cities has become a real pain now. It's necessary, because the advisor cannot handle Growth and Specialists, even if one sets the cities to Growth + Commerce. He always wants to work those dumb Spy-Specialists instead of Merchants and doesn't want to work the Food-Ressources. Every round now takes at least 5-10 minutes.

Also, it was a round where lots of Cottages grew to Hamlets and lots of Hamlets grew to Villgages, so GPT are getting better again. Here are some updated screens that you'll probably find interessting:



So City-Maintenance has risen by 200 GPT in only 3 turns! Maybe you'll now get a feel for how fast this all goes, let's have a look at some other stats:



What is seen here, is basically the real power of Sushi and the power of golden Ages. Score, Food and Culture go straight up from the point once Sushi was founded. The production curve has those huge spikes caused by the GAs and seems to have reached the a limit for now, because cities have reached the size where they can work the maximum tiles available. At the power-graph, I now it's very small but one can see it if looking closely: The Blitzkrieg against Cyrus, his power-ratio drops down straight. A short look at demographics supports what the Graphs before that have shown:



I hope I get this right, but this means that there are actually 270 Mio Incans, whereas the 2nd best Civ only has a population of 28 Mio. Let's continiue further with the Writeup:

645 AD: Another great Person is born, and it's a great Merchant! This will help fasten up the Expansion and the spread of Sushi. Also, I notice something very important: Pericles doesn't have a defensive Pact with Viccy anymore! I didn't get a message about that one, and I actually don't even know how it happened, but I was checking the Diplo-Tab every few turns, and somehow, the DP disappeared :confused:

I take a look at the land owned by the Empire to see, if it's possible to conquer Pericles. I know, Pericles had something like 7% of total landmass or so, so I have to be careful with this, I don't wanna win already. Here is a screen from the Victory Tab:



38% of the landmass, so with Pericles, I'd come out at about 44-45%, that should be still ok, shouldn't it? I move the Cavs into attacking position, but before that, I found Lisbon and Paliptura in 655 AD, Status of the Incan Empire: 70 cities!

Concerning the war: Pericles has Rifles and MGs, but he also only has a power-ratio of 1.8. I can see his cities through Espionage, they won't be able to withstand the force of 50+ Cavs with Airships, I decide to overwhelm him by pure Numbers. I even decide to split my Stack in four smaller ones and Blitz him again.

660 AD: Willem dows Lincoln, I gift Military Tradition, Iron and Horses to Lincoln, but even having those, he will vassalize to Willem in near future. I also found Bunyan and Karakorum, cities 71 + 72. And: The GM has reached Timbuktu, I get 7500 :gold: from him which I invest all in further Courthouses, Granaries and Executives. I want further spread of Sushi, I want it fast, and I need those Courthouses for that, as Maintenance is really eating at the GPT as you cannot imagine it. Want to have an updated Screen from the financial Advisor? Here is one from before the war against Pericles, it's 665 AD!



5000 GPT for city maintenance?!? Only 6 turns have passed since the last screen, so this makes -150 GPT / turn! I didn't look at the advisor in that game so often, but I noticed the drop in GPT. I still could run 15% of research though, so I think, with having all Cottages, I can expand further. What's also very interessting for me, is, that a huge part of the income is still generated by TRs. Before we come back to the war, let's just have a look at the great Coorperation HQ of Sushi: Cuzco!



Of course, this city is far from a normal one, having the HQ of Sushi with Wallstreet, generating 750 :gold: alone. What can be seen very good is the insane amount of maintenance Sushi causes, you know, this city is the Capital, so this is the one with the lowest maintenance, and still, it costs nearly 100 GPT.
It's grown very large already, it's size 29 which is equivalent to 12 Mio inhabitants in it. It's nearly at the limit of :health: even though having an Aqueduct, a Hospital and a Harbor. I still think though, that it was the wrong decision to build all those, I should have build Settlers instead. No discussion about the Banks, not even the Grocers and the Markets as those generate :gold: , but keeping cities healthy and happy with Sushi is not possible!

This was just a short detour from what is most important, the Blitzkrieg against Pericles! Here is a Screen from the Cavs and Airships being in positioni to attack:



And this is a Screenshot from 1 turn later:



4 cities down in 1 round of attack, this is real Shock and Awe! Pericles power-ratio has already dropped from 1.8 to 2.4, so he's basically lost his main army in 1 turn. With fighting the MGs, it turned out to be really good to have some Airforce as those are immune to collateral damage but can be hit by Bombardement from the Sky. I know, Airships aren't strong, but as ahcos once said: It often needs only to scratch the top-defender, and the city will fall without too many casualties.

680 AD, Frederick get's the GA-Event from being invaded (by Pericles of course) :lol: . I also wanna have that now, I need more Gold!

I found another city, and 2 other ones from Pericles fall in the same round. Athens is down to 1 defender, he was lucky to survive and Pericles Capital will fall next round for sure, here is another Screen from the Blitzkrieg:



Pericles is down to 2 cities on the continent, all the other ones are on islands. He would be willing to capitulate already, but it's gonna take till 725 AD until I finally can accept it, because in the next turns, my dumbass Vassals will be loosing so many ships, that Pericles cancels his will to Capitulate, because he thinks he is now winning the war! :lol:

In the meantime, power-settling has gone further, Status of the Incan Empire after the vassalization of Pericles: 93 cities, owning 45% of total land and 60% of total population! I have to get more careful now, any conquest is totally forbidden, and I may only settle cities that don't have too many land-tiles. You might think "well, there are still 6% to go" but believe me, those 6% are nothing, they'll come by Sushi-Culture alone, and they'll come fast. More and more cities are revolting because of the Incan-Sushi-Culture every turn, once they'll flip, Domination will be reached.

To end this Writeup for today, I have some last screens for you from 765 AD. I know this is a big leap, but nothing special happens during the meantime except that I decide for some further power-settling in some really crappy locations (the ice, no ressources, but also very few land that will be gained through those cities) and that I have started on building Wealth again (unbelievable but true) as I find out, that I cannot keep my cities healthy and happy. Here they are:



You see, city maintenance is going crazy with 7600 GPT! What was a totally wrong decision from me in this game, was to spend so much attention to Health, you see that the Empire owns more Grocers than Banks! Again, very interessting for me, TRs still are a huge source of Income, but still, without all Cottages, I'd be broke soon.
Besides city maintenance, Inflation is also beginning to play a significant role in Empire Expenses, as Civic upkeep will. This one has doubled from the first Screenshot I gave to you. I hope that I can build the Cristo Rendentor Wonder soon, so that I can revolutionize to cheaper Civics, those will really make the difference between "doing ok" and "doing fine" .

Here are some Screens from some core-cities:



Hamburg,
size 36, having 23 Mio inhabitants, costing 125 GPT but also generating 220 GPT, so this city can still pay for itself. The TRs look amazing, 11 Commerce from the top one to York, which is Lizzys overseas Capital. All other TRs are empire-intern already, because the cities have grown to an unbelievable Size. Look at the Food, remember it's size 36, still it has a surplus of 18, so this city will further grow, get even unhealthier, and, what I totally underestimated: Even after having pumped out so many GPs so early with so many GP Farms, there are still GPs to come! I really wished I wouldn't have switched to Theocracy at the end of the last GA but to Pacifism, as then, I'd have more GPT and even more GPs.



Kyoto, size 32, one of the best-developed Commerce-cities. Also being unhealthy and building Wealth.



Vilcas, the Ironworks city. Not being so large, but having a tremendous :hammers: output of 285! Not being a Commerce-city, but building a Bank, because TRs are generating so much income. Even though having the Verssaille Wonder, this city cannot pay for itself, but it will get very important in near time, because it'll produce some very large Wonders and after that support the Empire immensly by building Wealth in it.



Berlin, the city having the Globe Theater. If it wouldn't have that, over 50 inhabitants would be unhappy for a time of 650 turns :lol: . This city produced the most troops with heavy whipping and heavy drafting.

And the domestic Advisor Screen:

Spoiler :




Finished with scrolling? XD I remember now how insane it was to manage all those cities. In one turn, I microed all of them perfectly, I even changed all their buildcues to sort out unnecessary buildings a.s.o. That turn took me over 1h :eek: . From now I know, that there are only very few buildings a city with Sushi really needs, that's a Granaray, a Courthouse, a Bank, and everything beyond that is only necessary if the city is somehow special. Forges help a lot with :) , but Production doesn't play a role anymore at that time running US and rush-buying most of the things, Grocers help a lot with :health: and also with :gold: . In some cities, one will also want a Market as that helps with :) and :gold: , but anything besides these buildings I listed, except the Lighthouse of course, is unnecessary imho.


With this Screen, I'll leave you alone to think, see you in near future, yours

Seraiel
 

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Funny you should change your VC to culture. I was going to suggest that your play style lends itself to Space Victory. Maybe you'll try that next. Your affinity for inland cities, vassals, etc. would play out better for Space Race than Score. But as you can see, once you do a good Inca Rush, many options are available.
 
IIRC a courthouse is only about 700 gold (with Kremlin). Are you aware that you have to put one turn of production into something first? If you are buying things with no hammers invested, it will cost a lot more.
 
Wow, there's been a lot going in here :) Wanna answer to some of the posts, all is just impossible.

Keilah you can't reload a bunch of times to get combat wins without turning on new random seed on reload. Otherwise you have to do something else that will eat the random seed and give you a new one. Ending a turn will work since mining anything has a small chance to reveal gems to it access the random seed, but if you ended turns just to try to win 20% combat situations you'd waste a lot of turns and it would probably be more detrimental.

Getting new random seeds is easy. Just move 1 Worker to another tile, and you have totally new random seeds. This is the best possible way to cheat with reloading on the same turn, and I know from some, that they use it in normal forum games.

I gave the big score thing a try with Incas. Very nearly got 3 Mil on a normal sized map.

The maintenance costs for Sushi were ridiculous! Like 200 gold per turn in the big cities without a courthouse.

I also used random events, so I could string together 5 golden ages without stopping in true HOF style. :p

The inflation event in nice too.

This is a very nice thread! Always nice to see another person who likes this game as much as I do.

First a "Hi" and "nice that you found this thread" ! You're right, I love this game, and it's always nice if others play the same style as onesself does. Getting to 3M on your normal map is a really great achievement, looks like Wastins Score might fall soon, though probably not by me, if you have read the last post of the Writeup ;)

5 GAs is impressive and lucky, Inflation event ontop of that is op. Hope you will manage also without those ;)

I wish you luck Seraiel in your attempts to best Wastin's 3.2Mil, which certainly seems like an impossible task.

I've always wondered if it would be possible to calculate how many population you must add to your empire to maintain the same end score for each turn since that is 90%ish of your score.
That way you could know ahead of time when the best time to end the game would be and plan a war to finish the game with maximum city captures. For example:

T405 - Need to add 7 more population this turn to maintain the same score.
T450 - Need to add 8 more population this turn to maintain the same score.
T490 - Need to add 9 more population this turn to maintain the same score.

It is possible using buffy to sort all kinds of things, including how many turns before a city grows. You could use such a table and look at the buffy future population list to get a feel for when your score will peak roughly.

I guess ultimately what it really comes down to is, how fast can you found Sid's Sushi? :lol:

If only Charlemagne could war as well as Incas. His special courthouse gives -75% maintenance instead of -50%, which is really useful with the awe inspiring Sushi maintenance costs.

I have suspicions that the larger the map is, the smaller the highest possible score is. Having more AI to conquer/get gold from/trade with is a plus, but the number of resources needed to get the same +food from a corporation scales too while the number of turns to get them in does not.

Civ 4 is a pretty good game to ponder sometimes.

Thx for the wishes. Founding Sids Sushi as early as possible seems logical, but might not be the best imho, as the empire has to be set up at the time it is being founded. A too early Sushi might completely wreck the economy and stifle further expansion. I think, expanding as much as possible and as early as possible is the most important part, Sushi at 30 AD like in this game, 130 AD like in my current or even at 70 BC don't make that large of a difference.

And I've also already though of playing other leaders, I guess Shaka would be very very good for such an approach. As you can see in my last post, and as you've said yourself, maintenance is the big problem. The Ikhanda is nearly as good as BurgerKings Rathaus, and it gives :) on plus, also a lot easier to get the necessary troops for an all world Blitz at the end.

I wrote a calculator for exactly that. http://www.dos486.com/civ4/index/calc.shtml

I've been trying a few high score Sushi games myself too. With 4000 population on a standard size map on Marathon, you need to add about 20 population each turn, in the timeframe somewhere around turn 500.

Wow :D This is awesome! I have to take a look at that, sounds like the tool we have been missing.

Oh this is very nice! I punched in my numbers and it predicted the outcome exactly. Population was 97.576% of my score.

It says on T475 I need to add 14.4 ish population to my empire to maintain the same score when I hit next turn :goodjob:

I also see that my idea for a table of pre-calulated results wouldn't be as simple as I thought.
The iMax value for population is different for each map and for each size of map. Also, as the population increases, the additional population needed to maintain the same score next turn also changes and might be rather hard to reflect using even a spreadsheet. I see the calculator tool you've made is the best way to answer any score questions.
Also, I see your calculator is also available in spreadsheet form should I wish to experiment. :love:

Some results:
I also looked up the Imax value on a Huge map compared to a Normal map, and it seems you need 25% more total population to achieve the same score on the same turn, but you have roughly 125% more map to put cities on. So it seems my suspicions of larger maps having lower theoretical scores is also wrong. However, the vast distances and extra Sushi resources along with Sushi spreading speed limitations might nulify the extra cities somewhat since everything is on a timer. Maybe with airports to spread the Sushi executives hrmm.

You make some very good points. Huge maps seem better in first place, but the factors you listed make it bad in 2nd. If you've read the whole thread, you'll know, that I'll pay as much as 17k of maintenance at the end, that's ridiculous. Also, spreading Sushi, even with Slavery and US took very long, centuries, nearly a millenium only for Expansion and Spread. I don't think Airports will make a huge difference, as one has to get the Settler to the island somehow, and Airports are far far down the tech-tree, I will think about using them though, if I ever get a game like this again, where I have strong, fast researching Vassals.

Seraiel
 
Funny you should change your VC to culture. I was going to suggest that your play style lends itself to Space Victory. Maybe you'll try that next. Your affinity for inland cities, vassals, etc. would play out better for Space Race than Score. But as you can see, once you do a good Inca Rush, many options are available.

Till this point, I've only played Domination games, so I'm used to that kind of VC. I will try out Culture and Space Race too in future games. CV will be the one I take in my current game, as already said in the beginning of the latest part of the Writeup. Takes a lot of Math though, and a lot of :hammers: for all the Temples and Cathedrals, I already think that I took the wrong cities for this, as one can make every city legendary in no time with Sushi, one doesn't need to take the ones having World Wonders in them. A production heavy city producing :culture: would work perfectly aswell, and that city wouldn't have any problems with setting up the Cathedrals.

IIRC a courthouse is only about 700 gold (with Kremlin). Are you aware that you have to put one turn of production into something first? If you are buying things with no hammers invested, it will cost a lot more.

The 1k was rounded, I know that with the 1 turn invested penalty ;) But thx :) .
 
re: changing build q's takes 1 hour?

You need to learn the keyboard shortcuts.
ctrl+1 : saves the current build Q in position 1 (you can use other numbers)
alt + click on city build: selects ALL cities (you will see them all flashing.)
shift+1 : loads the Q saved at position 1 to ALL cities.

It's nice. For example, if you put "grocer, supermarket, wealth" into the queue.
Then load that into ALL cities. Cities with a grocer and supermarket already will just build wealth.

You can also use the "select all cities" and then click RushBuy (or Whip) to buy everything your empire is currently building!
 
Getting new random seeds is easy. Just move 1 Worker to another tile, and you have totally new random seeds. This is the best possible way to cheat with reloading on the same turn, and I know from some, that they use it in normal forum games.

I'm almost positive that worker movement doesn't get you a different combat outcome, but I guess I never had any reason to try it.
 
re: changing build q's takes 1 hour?

You need to learn the keyboard shortcuts.
ctrl+1 : saves the current build Q in position 1 (you can use other numbers)
alt + click on city build: selects ALL cities (you will see them all flashing.)
shift+1 : loads the Q saved at position 1 to ALL cities.

It's nice. For example, if you put "grocer, supermarket, wealth" into the queue.
Then load that into ALL cities. Cities with a grocer and supermarket already will just build wealth.

You can also use the "select all cities" and then click RushBuy (or Whip) to buy everything your empire is currently building!

Again, you're giving me some really good tips, as you really read what I'm writing :) This one will help a lot to let my future games not also last 200h :) TY again!
 
Also, as the population increases, the additional population needed to maintain the same score next turn also changes and might be rather hard to reflect using even a spreadsheet.
Right. The more you have, the more you'll drop each turn so you need to add more to compensate.

So it seems my suspicions of larger maps having lower theoretical scores is also wrong.
Larger maps definitely have higher theoretical scores. 6000 pop / 2000 max gives significantly more score than 3000 pop / 1000 max. See my main article (linked at the top of the calculator) for a deep explanation of the mathematics.

However, the vast distances and extra Sushi resources along with Sushi spreading speed limitations might nulify the extra cities somewhat since everything is on a timer. Maybe with airports to spread the Sushi executives hrmm.
You gotta spread Sushi as fast as possible. Get the Kremlin and whip executives even with an empty production box. Just whip executives at any city, close to the target city so the executive doesn't spend time traveling. You can also use boat chains to move an executive farther in one turn (but you must make sure to set up the boat chain the turn before the executive is completed.)

Another tip: Avoid Astronomy. The Colossus produces over 2000 commerce in these games. On ocean tiles, it adds TWO commerce because it turns on the Financial bonus. Yes, moving a million galleys around is tedious, but it's worth it for that kind of income. Caravels can carry executives.

Kind of disappointing to see Victory Type, amount of vassals etc etc are not counted at all.
I am pretty sure that victory type does not matter for score at all. Good point about vassals, I didn't think about that when making the calculator. You can put in land and population numbers for your vassal if you like. (If someone else wants to implement some good support for vassals in my Excel spreadsheet, I can probably port it back to the Javascript pretty easily.)
 
I'm almost positive that worker movement doesn't get you a different combat outcome, but I guess I never had any reason to try it.

I think 1 turn has to be passed to change the outcome. One could reload a save from the turn before the attack and change a few buildcues, or simply move some Workers to other places, all those things create a completely new random seed in the next turn. Other Civs will come to you asking for other things, units will be fighting completely different battles, a.s.o.

I think I was also wrong about the "on the same turn".
 
I am pretty sure that victory type does not matter for score at all. Good point about vassals, I didn't think about that when making the calculator. You can put in land and population numbers for your vassal if you like, though I may think about adding that capability to the calc. (If someone else wants to implement that in my Excel spreadsheet, I can probably port it back to the Javascript pretty easily.)

Sorry, I was not clear anough: disappointment is towards bad game scoring system, not your awesome tool. :)

If only Valve'd bother with patch 3.21 and make scores appropriate. :mischief:

I mean, look at SGOTM, you can find there games with both Perfect every turn micro and brilliant long term strategy, yet scores are not even close to numbers we see here.

Huts / events?
Every positive/negative roll should subtract/add appropriate amount from/to your score. Not like "I won that game by popping BW on 2nd turn, while you got map from same hut. I will have much bigger score."
 
The 1k was rounded, I know that with the 1 turn invested penalty ;) But thx :) .

Since we're on the topic. I'm sure we both agree there is no advantage to buying a courthouse 1 turn sooner with the penalty cash. However, what do you do about settlers/executives? Originally, executives had NO limit, but now come with a 5 exec max. I find myself whipping them with 0 hammers invested because the turn saved is so critical. Not sure that's the right approach. Curious what you do.
 
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