Replay #4 Slow and steady wins the race

[DMOC]

Very nice showing against Gandhi. (By the way, it's Gandhi, not Ghandi.) All those techs you're trading will get you to WFYABTA so it's crucial to keep at least two trading partners, e.g. Darius and Hatshepsut, friendly with you. This game reminds me of how much I like huge maps.

 

[Seraiel]

You got maths for poly???!?!?!??!!??!?

Did Toka get any cities or did he just throw away all his units? I also rarely get any tech from AIs. I have a feeling they never give up and give you tech if you raze any of their cities cause they're angry.

I had researched 3/4 of Maths, only very few 's were left, that's why this trade worked. Toku got 1 city out of the war against Ghandi, something I could not prevent. Regarding the Mechanics of getting a tech in a peace-treaty, I don't know them, but I'm quite sure that razing any of their cities has nothing to do with it. I think it works more like this, they're willing to offer you i. e. 500 for a peace-treaty, then you can get 1 tech worth 500 . HBR was too big of a tech and I lost too many units against Gandhi, it is kind of ridiculous though that AI is not willing to give everything when it's down to 1 city / 1 Archer.

Very nice showing against Gandhi. (By the way, it's Gandhi, not Ghandhi.) All those techs you're trading will get you to WFYABTA so it's crucial to keep at least two trading partners, e.g. Darius and Hatshepsut, friendly with you. This game reminds me of how much I like huge maps.

Thx WFYABTA would play a role in the game, later, I even got it from Mansa. WFYABTA is mostly defined through how many techs you got through trade, isn't it? How about self-researching techs, does that lower WFYABTA again, or how can one get around it? Should one not trade sometimes just to be able to trade longer?

Regarding the diplomacy, that's one of my biggest advantages, in this round, and always, though it's actually not that difficult, but I know how I struggled in the beginning with it and that's why I really learned how to have a good Diplomacy. Of course, the opponents are very favourable to me also, their favourite civic was one of the main criterias when choosing them.

And I agree, Huge maps are simply the most fun Sometimes, they get ridiculous, like when everybody is in war with everybody and 3-5 AIs come asking to one every turn, but with Brennus, Peter and Tokugawa as Meatshields, and Hatty as a certain friend, this sometimes was really a cakewalk .

Sera

 

[Revent]

I had researched 3/4 of Maths, only very few 's were left, that's why this trade worked. Toku got 1 city out of the war against Ghandi, something I could not prevent. Regarding the Mechanics of getting a tech in a peace-treaty, I don't know them, but I'm quite sure that razing any of their cities has nothing to do with it. I think it works more like this, they're willing to offer you i. e. 500 for a peace-treaty, then you can get 1 tech worth 500 . HBR was too big of a tech and I lost too many units against Gandhi, it is kind of ridiculous though that AI is not willing to give everything when it's down to 1 city / 1 Archer.



Thx WFYABTA would play a role in the game, later, I even got it from Mansa. WFYABTA is mostly defined through how many techs you got through trade, isn't it? How about self-researching techs, does that lower WFYABTA again, or how can one get around it? Should one not trade sometimes just to be able to trade longer?

Regarding the diplomacy, that's one of my biggest advantages, in this round, and always, though it's actually not that difficult, but I know how I struggled in the beginning with it and that's why I really learned how to have a good Diplomacy. Of course, the opponents are very favourable to me also, their favourite civic was one of the main criterias when choosing them.

And I agree, Huge maps are simply the most fun Sometimes, they get ridiculous, like when everybody is in war with everybody and 3-5 AIs come asking to one every turn, but with Brennus, Peter and Tokugawa as Meatshields, and Hatty as a certain friend, this sometimes was really a cakewalk .

Sera

I would have thought that it has to do with the proportion of techs you've traded or something along those lines? ie, techs traded over techs available or techs traded over techs researched because I got a WFYABTA once, next turn I finished researching a tech and he was ready to trade once more.

But nice finish of Gandhi! Epic stuff, if only I could do something like that. How would you have done things different if you hadn't gotten the quest?

 

[coanda]

... You didn't just spend longer and put more thought into this game than I've ever put into a Civ4 game. You spent longer than I've ever spent on any ten Civ4 games (really. The longest game I can recall playing was just under 20 hours). Even if the rest wasn't worth comment, I'd give you a "Bravo" just for that... but it's pretty clear you were making good decisions in this game too.

 

[WelshGandalf]

I would never play games like this. However I do enjoy this thread and your other ones Seraiel. That's one of the lovely things about Civ, you can play it in so many different ways. Big maps, small maps, different speeds, you can just play on easier levels if you find that fun, you can play harder games if you want more of a challenge. You can go military every game, or culture every game, you can try different strategies, you can play fast, slow.... it' such a great game.

 

[DMOC]

I think my longest was around 50 hours, and that was on epic speed, so extrapolating to marathon would be perhaps 100 hours.

 

[Seraiel]

I would have thought that it has to do with the proportion of techs you've traded or something along those lines? ie, techs traded over techs available or techs traded over techs researched because I got a WFYABTA once, next turn I finished researching a tech and he was ready to trade once more.

I think it's plain Number of techs, there are values given for each AI in DanF's XML files, so I think one maybe shouldn't trade so many small techs. Maybe someone has better information on that.

But nice finish of Gandhi! Epic stuff, if only I could do something like that. How would you have done things different if you hadn't gotten the quest?

If I wouldn't have gotten the quest, I would have taken myself more time for military buildup, especially because I would have needed more troops. I also wouldn't have had a Medic 2 Healer, so the overall conquest of Ghandi would have been slower.

... You didn't just spend longer and put more thought into this game than I've ever put into a Civ4 game. You spent longer than I've ever spent on any ten Civ4 games (really. The longest game I can recall playing was just under 20 hours). Even if the rest wasn't worth comment, I'd give you a "Bravo" just for that... but it's pretty clear you were making good decisions in this game too.

Thx Huge / Marathon is something special concerning the length of the game, but playing for highscore makes the most of it. I could have won that game 1000y before I actually reached the highest score, and most 100 of the 224h was used up by microing 200+ cities, all tiny island cities not counting towards domination limit (or only very little) . Just dominating that Continent would have taken me no less than 50h. Microing those cities was definately needed, because I had to expand at the edge of the economy and have maximum Sushi-Deals, but more so, the advisor just is no good in these kind of games because he doesn't work the food anymore and sets the city to no growth once it's close to the happiness limit.

I would never play games like this. However I do enjoy this thread and your other ones Seraiel. That's one of the lovely things about Civ, you can play it in so many different ways. Big maps, small maps, different speeds, you can just play on easier levels if you find that fun, you can play harder games if you want more of a challenge. You can go military every game, or culture every game, you can try different strategies, you can play fast, slow.... it' such a great game.

Thx 2 It surely is one of the greatest games I've ever played, and I've already played some great games, DAoC i. e. which I played for 8y. This game has similar long-time potential.

I think my longest was around 50 hours, and that was on epic speed, so extrapolating to marathon would be perhaps 100 hours.

100h are a lot if the aim is only to win the game. As said above, most of the time got used up by microing the cities after the game was won already for a long time.

Btw, just playing my first Incan games again atm. Such a funny Civ, it's currently 2500 BC and I have 8 cities. I could have had 10 if I wouldn't have razed 2, with any other Civ, I would not even have my 2nd city at that time .

 

[Seraiel]

Before we come to the next Episode of Replay #4, which is titled "The power of Oracle Feudalism" it's time for another clearview. I did a lot of exploring during the war against Ghandi and have revealed most of the worldmap, let's have a look at it:



Almost the whole continent is explored and now you know, where Frederick (the Mids) is (are) . I've copied the scoreboard into the same picture, because it provides most of the information we need. Neighbours with whom I have border contact are Tokugawa, Hatty, Darius and Hammurabi (the Buddhists) and in the east is the christian front with very strong Viccy and Wang Kon. In general one can say, that the Buddhists have a bad stand on this map, most of them are not developed very far, and without having converted Hammurabi, it would be even worse, because Viccy and he are the biggest Civs on the map. Don't let yourself get fooled by the fact that Willem has so many points, those are only because he scored some World Wonders and because he's quite advanced in tech due to his trading practices, he has only 3 cities because he got blocked completely by Darius!

So basically, as always, I sit between the fronts. In the West and the South are my pals, the Buddhists, and in the east are Viccy and Wang Kon. I don't have to fear Wang Kon, who's in WHEOOHRN atm btw, but Viccy with her 11 cities is mighty dangerous, because she can also declare war at pleased, and her neighbours are all christians. I have to keep a close eye on her. Now I can't just go and conquer my foes, because they are too far away from my capital Thebes, the maintenance would totally eat me up, and the crusade would be difficult and take a lot time.

Better options is to backstab the Civs that sit close to me, but before we come to that, let's get another more detailed clearview of the cities I have atm. :


The Capital: Thebes



Thebes is a future Buro Capital like no other city. With its tripple Gold, its dual wet Corn and it's grassland riverside Cottages, this City will put out a lot of Commerce and Hammers. It has a Granary and a Barracks, is building a Library and will be perfect for a future Oxford University. One building I should have built in it would have been a buddhist Monestary, but I would never find the time for that. First I needed every single War Chariot, then came the Library, then further Chariots, then a University, then Oxford, then an Observatory, and then it was too late. In my next game, I will try to build a Monestary in the Capital because one city should be able to pump out Missionaries throughout the whole game. It's enormously important to get the State-Religion to almost every city in a Sushi game because there are so many buildings one has to build, therefor, the Capital seems perfect for this task as it also benefits from the research bonus of the Monestary.

Anyhow, this wouldn't make any difference in near time as I'd be running OR very long, let's have a look at the next cities:



You still know Alexandria, the Horses-city. This city has only little Food and it also has little production potential, but is has some luxury ressources, no question what this city will become (Commerce city) . In the north of it is the conquered Pataliputra, which is the holy city of Hinduism. It doesn't have as much Food as I could wish for, but Bananas, a Floodplain and a plains Cow aren't too bad, and holy cities always make great great Person Farms (as one can hire 3 Priest Specialists once they have a Shrine) or Commerce cities. As I got no other location that has enough Food, Pataliputra will become the GP Farm. The Shrine for it has low priority atm, because Civil Service / Buro is already in reach, and I want to have a great Scientist by then because an Academy in a Buro Capital is just so awesome.
The last of the 3 cities is Bangalore, and you will wonder a little bit when you read "IW city" , but there were so few rivers on this map, especially in the region where I started and in the regions I planned to conquer, that this was clear from the start. An IW city must have a river for the Levee in it, Hills don't matter because the Workshops will be powerful enough by that time, Sugar is no Lux but simple Food, and well, that it has Gems, doesn't matter. The use for this city in the next milleniums? I used it as a Settler / Worker / Missionary pump, it would even get a University just because it was one of the few cities strong enough to build one.

Here is a screen of the last triplet of cities:



First we got Bombay, which was Gandhis capital. Capital sites are normally always high on production and Food, as is this site, with its 3 hills and Horses + Elephants which count as another 2 hills. It has wet Corn + Floodplains to support the production-tiles. Normally, this would get a Hammer-city, but as it already had 3 Cottages, I decided for it to become a hybrid city, meaining, it'll get Cottages + Mines to produce Commerce + Troops. The buildings for it are a Granary, a Barracks, a Libarary and later a Univserity.
To the north of it we have Calcutta, a coastal city with some production (plains Cows) and little Food (lighthouse-lakes and again the Cows) . The fact that this city has little Food makes it a Commerce city that would get a Library and because of it's production potential also a University, and in the rest of the time, it should produce ships for settling all those islands.
To it's East is Ahmedabad, a great city site, having 3 hills, plains-iron, Marble, and enough Food to support those. This city is as high on production as Bombay but it didn't have any Cottages yet, therefor, it was ideal to become the Heroic Epic city. This city alone would produce the main military for the whole round, just because it was so extremely powerful.


After a closer look at the cities, let's look at economics and statistics:



This is a screen from the financial advisor. It shows that the empire has an output of 67 Commerce atm. which are completely diverted to Research (100%) . Like this, the empire makes 67 Beakers per turn (BPT) but runs deficit at -46 Gold per turn (GPT) . I still have 350 Gold from begging from the Civs that have Currency already, but that's not gonna last long, actually only 7 turns! After those 7 turns, I'd have to lower the research significantly because on the opposite of the 67 Commerce income are expenses of 46 Commerce, so I could not even maintain a rate of 30% research with even GPT atm. Most of the Commerce comes from worked tiles and only little Commerce comes from Traderoutes (foreign trade) atm.

Now if we look at the demographics:



It tells us that it is as bad as already suspected. The best Empire (which most likely will be Viccy atm) has three times as much GNP as my empire has, so basically. My advantage is, that I can run deficit, but if she had the gold I have, she could outresearch me by 5 times with her discount on techs!
What's really bad though is, that the Production and Food is also that bad, I'm on one of the last places there! My advantage though: I chop harder than the AI does, and this production isn't listed in the demographics.

Why am I so far behind? To understand that, one simply has to give a look at the population, I got about 100k, Viccy has got 1.5M! I'd love to use Worldbuilder now to give you a look at her cities, but I can't. Let's have a look at the Top 5 cities:



See? AIs cities have got twice the size of Thebes. This is because Thebes had 2 slave-revolts both costing 1 pop each, and because I whipped out some troops for the conquest of Gandhis empire.

I got some espionage on Hatty, Darius and Mansa, let's look at our Graphs compared to theirs:



These are the Gold-, Production- and Food-Graphs. On the Gold-Graph you can see Hattys Gold going straight upwards from the point where she got her Shrine. Darius Gold went straight upwards from the point he got Currency. Mansa got neither, therefor I can still compete with him.
Production doesn't look that bad against those three, it's really Viccy with her 11 cities that is so enormously powerful, against Hatty, Darius and Mansa, I'm doing ok!
Food is going straight upwards and almost able to compete with theirs too.


So basically, Viccy and Wang Kon are overmighty, against most other Civs, my values are decent, but I have to do something about the Gold. This is why I decide to give up Feudalism and get myself Currency from Asoka! (This is the start of the episode "The power of Oracle Feudalism" ) .



This was a really hard decision. I could have gotten Currency earlier from Darius, but I didn't want to give him Feudalism, as I feared that he might trade it with Hatty, whom I plan to invade because of her Shrine. Asoka isn't the most ideal trading target either, as he is always willing to give away techs while only few Civs know them, but at least he's a christian and won't trade with Hatty I hope.

Now that I can trade Gold, I do some intensive begging at all Civs. I also negotiate Ressource against GPT trades. Let's have a look at the Financial Advisor after these actions:



This looks a lot better, doesn't it? 1300 Gold instead of 350 Gold, and the deficit has shrunk from 47 GPT to 42 GPT. Total Commerce went up from 67 to 81 because the additional Traderoutes from Currency are giving about 15 additional Commerce. If one takes into account, that I'm also saving 6 GPT from running Vassalage, and that I can run my Research at a GPT deficit I'm almost able to compete to Viccy.


Of course, I'm not only almost able to compete to Viccy, as a human with the Gens of Mansa Musa and some crazy lumberman I'm of course a lot better than her XD . Here are the trades of the next few turns:

1550 BC: Currency +200g vs Aesthetics with friendly Hatty:



1530 BC: Aesthetics + Maths + Currency + 150g vs Theology with friendly Hammurabi:



Now having Theology, I switch research from Civil Service to Paper!

1530 BC: I gift Lizzy 1000g to get friendly status with her!



After that, Currency + Monotheism +125g vs Calendar trade is possible:



(Note that you don't have to gift the full sum to a Civ to get the +4 bonus, you can gift them small packages one after another. In the game, I didn't gift Lizzy the 1000 Gold in one piece, but little 50g stacks until I got friendly status with her. )

1500 BC: Maths + Currency + 125g vs Metalcasting with Mansa:



Amazing how many techs one can get through trading a tech that was oracled over 500y ago?


----------------

This was the episode "The power of Oracle Feudalism" . i first thought about the title "The power of Currency" but as I got Currency through the Feudalism trade, I decided for Feudalism to give the name to the episode.

Next episode is called "I'm sry Hatty but... What? You got Longbows? Uh, uhm, no, nothing, of course I'm gonna help you against mean Tokugawa XD . "

Till then, cya

Seraiel

 

[stimpyhoek]

very enjoyable write up

 

[Seraiel]

I'm back !

I've given you a good clearview of my empire in the last post. You know now, that my position isn't that bad, but it's not good enough already to call this game won, I've got to conquer at least one more target, preferably two. You also know already that I cannot conquer the infidels in the east, because maintenance would kill me afterwards. I can only backstab my own neighbours Tokugawa and Hatty, which of course makes me feel bad about myself, not! XD
I've also gotten a lot of techs via techtrade with friendly AIs / Mansa Musa using the oracled Feudalism to jump on the techtrade-train. I only mention this, because this is how the round continues:

The Settler, with which I wanted ro resettle some of the space where the ruins of Ghandis cities are, finishes in T203 (1470 BC) : I found the food-poor city of Hiereapolis on Stone:



Notice, the Troops from Toku and Lizzy and that picture. Lizzy already fortified an Archer there because she also wanted to settle that land, and below the japanese Spearman is a hidden Settler. It's really unbelievable how fast the AI is when it comes to settling the land on Deity. Anyhow, unlike last time with Viccy, who had a Settler on standby, this time I'm the winner.

Hiereapolis is a pretty bad city having almost exclusively plains and only having a plains-Cow as a source of Food, and that plains cow even belongs to the GP-Farm Pataliputra. Anyhow, Hiereapolis has lots of trees, that's why it's perfect for my next plan: Construct the Mausoleum of Maussollos. The Oracle and the MoM are without doubt the two most powerful World Wonders, Oracle having given me a 4k Beakers tech and the MoM giving me 2 GAs for free (as in almost all good games, I'm going for 4 Golden Ages and the MoM lengthens them by 50% which is not comparable to anything else) .

On the screen, you can also see that I've moved my War Chariots to Thebes and what you can't see, Wang Kon is a buddhist atm. and Brennus is in WHEOOHRN. The last two things aren't that important, but I want to mention them as they played a role at that time. Convincing WK to become a buddhist was a plan of mine that didn't succeed regretably, he converted back to Christianity 5 turns later, even taking some techs of the buddhist faction with him. He was the only one having CoL and only some more turns, and I would have had friendly status with him, I was at +9, but no, didn't work :/ .
Concerning Brennus in WHEOOHRN: Brennus came to me and demanded ridiciulous 1000g of me. Of course I answered "we reject your empty threats" to him, but I actually only noticed that he was in WHEOOHRN one turn later. I didn't know, if he just went WHEOOHRN because he was lacking money, or if he wanted to sneak attack me because of the rejected demand. Well, turns out, it was because of the rejected demand, Brennus is going to DoW me soon, anyhow, that's not too important, because look ono the map in the post above, he's like 1000 lightyears away from me and because he's hated by everyone, he doesn't even have open Borders agreements. That's one of the situtations where AI is just stupid, DoWing when his troops can't even reach my cities, or rather DoWing with a sole Archer that was still near my empire from the inital exploration phase, where he got stuck between the various borders there.

More important: The future conquest. I've made Ultralord a Supermedic, to fasten up the healing of the incoming troops: (Yes, the troops didn't even have time to heal yet, this is going really fast! )



Ultralord is not only a Supermedic now, he's also a great Fighter whom I've promoted to Leadership (+100% XP from fights) and Tactics (+30% Withdrawl chance) . Most players promote to Morale (+1 Movement) first and I can understand their argument for an especially fast Medic, that can kill a unit and come back to the city to heal the troops, but I like the additional Withdrawl chance more, because combined with Leadership, this unit will have a high survivability and will gain lots of experience points / GG-points from 98-100% battles. (98% battles are the best to lvl a fighting Supermedic, they give 4 XP with the Leadership bonus. I'm going to keep you informed on the lvling progress Ultralord makes. )


Btw.: One thing I have to correct: Research after getting Aesthetics went Literature and not Paper. The main reason for this was, that Hatty's research went Drama and not Literature, and I really wanted to have that Heroic Epic asap. I know WastinTime says winning Music is too big of a distraction in the race to Sushi, and I agree with him partly about that. I agree that it is a big distraction and that 1 Great Person doesn't make too much of a difference (especially with being Spiritual) but in contrast to games with the Incans, where one conquers enough land until 2000 BC, with Egypt one has to keep conquering land for a much longer time, therefor, the HE would be an extremely important building in near time.

When speaking about techs: Here is another screen from 1440 BC:



I don't know how Hatty did that, probably with Calendar, but she has got all techs except Feudalism! Looking at the other AIs, they're also tech-trading like hell. Hammurabi got everything except Feudalism from me, that's ok, but Mansa having everything except Feudalism and Theology? WK having taken all the techs from the buddhist faction with him, having then converted back to christianity and still having CoL? Willem having all techs Mansa has? Lizzy having even Theology?

Maybe you'll know get a feel for the advantages that playing with 17 AIs has, but also notice how hard it is to stay in the tech-race against them. The advantage basically is that with 17 AIs, the tech-tempo is very high, there are lots of trading opportunities, but that stands against the extremely big disadvantage that the AIs trade so much between each other / also get so many techs once they've researched a tech they can trade. Only thing that's important: Feudalism didn't make the round yet, Asoka and I are the only ones being able to construct Longbows, War Chariots are still a very strong unit.


On the same turn (T206 = 1440 BC) : 10 of those are healed up and rdy for future conquest. I've scouted Hatty with some of them and found this:



No sign of any real Stack of Doom yet. She's got mostly Archers, and 4 of her 5 cities lie on hills, and to know how hard Hill-Archers are, you just have to look at my title (in any case I change it ever, it's "Hill Archers are OP" ) . I'm confident that I can conquer 1 or 2 of her cities with my 10 Chariots, but after that, I need reinforcements. Especially that fortified Spearman in her Capital, which also has Walls, could be extremely hard.

1310 BC (T219) I decide that it's time. Having 17 War Chariots should be enough to make the beginning, so I bribe Tokugawa against Hatty with Monarchy. Always good to have a strong underdeveloped warmonger as a friend XD . The aim of this Bribe again is, that Tokugawa sucks up the bribes Hatty does, it's not his forces which I need to destroy any big SoD, the war should be over even before Tokus troops will have reached any of Hatty's cities.



If you ask yourself btw how I could mass up so many WCs in such a short time without sacrificing my complete developement: I have 12 Workers for 8 cities, about half of them is chopping Forrests. Here is a picture for you which is another good clearview of what the empire is doing atm. :

1. The chopping Workers.
2. Calcutta producing a buddhist Missionary which shall spread the State Religion to Hiereapolis to higher the value of the chops for the MoM.
3. The empire concentrating on building Forges (I build those always asap, especially with being Industrial) .
4. Only 2 cities are producing the Chariots, the rest is focusing on developement.
5. One city producing Warriors which I'll need as a Military Police, therefor:
6. A worker is improving the Iron, but I'll stop the road 1 turn before it's completed to be able to produce Warriors furtheron.
7. The marble, which is needed for the MoM is not yet online.

The Bribe works as planned, on the next turn, Hatty bribes Lizzy and Asoka against Toku.

I still waited some turns though, because Construction was in reach. Having Catapults would make an enormous difference, the difference between "just conquering Hatty" or "conquering Hatty with negligible losses and after that directly conquer Toku" .


1240 BC (T226) something very bad happens. Willem has researched Feudalism even though Asoka and me already had it. Both, Willem trades all techs that 15% or more Civs know: Asoka + him + me makes 3/18 = 1/6 = 16.67% and so, the tech is freely available for anyone. Of course Hatty is the first to give everything for it, as she's in war.

Now that Hatty has got Longbows, I need something better than War Chariots, this is the start of the episode "I'm sry Hatty, but... What? You say you got Longbows? Of course I'm gonna help you against mean Tokugawa XD" .

The episode begins with trading Metalcasting vs Construction with Peter:



The episode continues with winning the Musicrace at 1200 BC and moving the troops into position for Tokugawa: Another clearview giving most of the valuable information:

1. The Great Artist from Music.
2. 17 Chariots are into position for attacking Tokugawa.
3. Tokyo will be the first city to fall.
4. After winning Music, the Research went to Paper.
5. I'm still not focusing on GP production.
6. Lizzy has vassaled to Hatty because she was so afraid of Tokugawa.
7. Hatty and Mansa are researching Philosphy which is really nice because I need that for the upcoming GA.
8. Diplomacy looking really nice with 5 Civs being friendly and 11 being pleased. Only Brennus is a little pissed because I bribed Frederick against him after he DoWed me with his single Archer.
9. I've got a good amount of Gold due to being able to trade so much, I i. e. tradet cheap Literature for about 1k of Gold to everyone. Research also looks very nice if one takes into account that this is still without Burocracy and an Academy. It also has developed very nicely since the last clearview from only 300y ago, it actually has doubled since then.

In T231 (1190 BC) I finally DoW someone again, it's time to cut the head of Tokugawa! I decided against waiting for Catapults again which would prove to be an error. Anyway.

In T 232 (1180 BC) I attack Tokyo:



The city falls with 2 losses. It had 2 defending Archers and 2 Axemen and was on hills and had Walls. This was not so much luck though but simply the power of Combat 3 WCs, having already 20% chances against tripple promoted PRO-Archers. Axemen of course are no opponent against a WC because of the 100% attack-bonus.



The picture shows Ultralord being the one to clean up the last defender in Tokyo and it shows the picture of 2 move units, with the SoD having moved near Toku's next city on the same turn. In T 233 (1170 BC) it's time to attack Osaka:



I have 5 losses due to the two Spearmen in it, one having 25% fortification Bonus and in addition having Combat 2 (+20%) . Together with the Walls the city had and his bonus against mounted units, this Spearman had a STR of 4 * 295% = almost 12! If Civ4 was realistic and not , the Spearmen would have eaten up my whole SoD for breakfast, just think of 300 (the movie) .
Anyhow, 5 losses are severe and show that I should really have waited for at least one or two Catapults to be finished, from the inital SoD of 17 units, only 10 are left. I focus on reinforcements and also decide that the newly conquered cities shall whip some Cats once they're out of their revolution, doesn't matter if they're unpromoted.

Osaka btw is a really nice city, having tripple plains Elephants and two 6 yield Food sources. As Drama is available to me, I decide that it shall get my Globe Theater (GT) city.

Anyhow, I have 5 turns before the city comes out of its Revolution, so I can switch to Serfdom. This was the time in the round where I realized again that I was SPI and could switch Civics as many times as I want, switched to Serfdom would have been good the whole time, they would have saved me so many workerturns...

1150 BC (T135) Lincoln liberates his overseas colonies, Suleiman enters the game:



One turn later, it's 1140 BC, the Reinforcements have arrived and met with healed troops from Tokyo and Osaka. This is why I made Ultralord a Supermedic, it fastens up the Conquest just so much. Regarding the target city: It's Gandhi's former city Madras, the one and only city Toku conquered in the war against him. It's a crappy city in the wrong place (should have been 2S) , it lies on hills and has 4 Defenders, 1 being a Combat 2 Spearman again. I've got 10 War Chariots, how's this going to end?

Again, I have severe losses: 5 War Chariots die, under them already quadruple promoted ones, veteran fighters, but the city is mine. Not for long, because I raze it. Knowing how fast AI resettles freed space, I had a Settler on standby this time, I found the city of "Lisht" 2S of the former Madras on the same turn.



It's a nice city having some grassland hills and Iron. I plan for it to become a production city, as I still lack coastal cities having a good production. In the process of this round, it will even become the most productive city of the empire (not counting the HE-City of Ahmedabad) , it will construct the Kremlin and later on become the home of the Spies (= a Spy-city) .

------------------

This was the fast part of the conquest of Tokugawa and the first part of the Episode "I'm sry Hatty, but..." . How will I manage, having used up 3/4 of my Stack already? When will we see the 1st GP beside the GA from Music? What's up with the rest of the world? All this in the 2nd part, which will go online later this evening, make sure to follow it! Till then, cya,

Seraiel

 

[Seraiel]

2nd part of the Episode: "I'm sry Hatty but.. What? You say you have Longbows? Of course I'm gonna help you against mean Tokugawa XD ."​

Not much time has passed since the last post, no need for a summary. Anyhow, I have to give you a short clearview what happened with the rest of the world:

• A worldwar has broken out. It's Asoka, Hammurabi, Lincoln + Sulei and Washington against Brennus. No chance he's going to make it against those Civs, especially Hammurabi builds a ton of military usually and both, him and Lincoln have huge empires. It's just a question to whom he'll vassalize.
• Asoka, Mansa, Viccy, Wang Kon and Frederick all have gangbanged up on Peter. I don't know where he is on the map so I can't make any predictions if he has a chance, seems unlikely against so many empires, but again, Peter is a very strong guy, maybe if he has a chokepoint-city where he can mass up troops, they will suffer great losses.
• After having lost the Mids already, I have lost another Wonder with great power (on Huge maps) giving GE-points, Viccy has constructed the Hanging Gardens. Other Wonders that went in the meantime were the Shwedagon Paya (by Lincoln) , the SoZ (also by Lincoln) , the Parthenon (by Peter) , the Colossus (by Willem) , and unbelievably early, the GL went only a few turns after Literature had been researched to Frederick, and no, he didn't have a GE, he must just have chopped it out really hard or have had a city with an abnormous amount of production-capacity.

And besides the clearviews I gave to you already, it's time to say what plans I have / what I'm doing with my empire atm.:

• I plan to construct the MoM in Hiereapolis. Thx to Music, I was able to borderpop every city using the unlocked mechanism to convert Hammers into Culture. This means, that the Marble now lies inside the Borders of Ahmedabad, it's currently being improved by 3 Workers, I've built a Missionary to spread Buddhism to Hiereapolis and the city is currently building a Forge, because a large project like the MoM needs all multipliers available. The MoM actually isn't that hard to get if one gets Calendar early, one can even score that wonder if one get's Calendar late, all one has to do is some good coordination of Workers and some chopping, AI doesn't push that much to that wonder as it should in my experience, because the Aesthetics Wonders (the Statue of Zeus, the Shwedagon Paya and the Parthenon) are all valued higher by the AI than the MoM.
• I've improved all Calendar ressources. This greatly helped my foreign trades, I'm making a good 20 GPT only through Ressource-trade atm.
• I've been focusing on Growth and developement mainly because I was so far behind. Believe it or not so, Thebes has had it's 3rd Slave Revolt!!! That city could be size 11 atm but it's only size 8.
• I've begun on producing a great Scientist in Pataliputra. It took quite some time, because I had to build a Library first and couldn't just switch to Caste System, because WK still holds to it because he wants to construct the Chicken Pizza / not enough Civs know it yet. If I had only had so much luck with Feudalism...
• After the HE has gone into production now, and after having a decent amount of Food + some grassland tiles which I can farm (Osaka) , I want to get up the Globe Theater asap, just because it's so powerful. Yes, ahcos doesn't see that, but believe me, he will after the completition of this writeup :> .
• I want to produce a Warrior as a Military Police for every city. I want to do that, because I want to bring the Iron online at some point of the round, and if I do that, Warriors will become obsolete / impossible to build.
• I want to build a Galley and settle some Islands in the middle future.

Now you're informed on what the empire does and what my plans are. Before we get back to the war against Tokugawa, I have to inform you on two trades:

This is Number 1, Theology vs Drama with MM:



And this Number 2, Music vs HBR with MM again:




Remember, most of my Stack has been used up against the Spearmen in the hills and Walls cities. In 1100 BC, after some fighting on the open field (the wounded forces in Osaka were always luring out defenders from Kyoto. That's a trick I already used at Calcutta, position wounded forces in a city and the full-hp-ones behind it, wait until you've lured out the defenders of the neighbouring city, kill them on the open field XD . ) 7 of the remaining 8 War Chariots have moved to Tokugawas Copper-City "Kagoshima" . One turn later they attack the 2 Archers and 1 Axeman in it. Again, it's a hills city:



The city falls with 3 losses. Again no luck, the initial Chariots had something like 30% chances against the fortified CG2 Drill1 Archers getting the hills bonus on plus, Combat 3 to 5 War Chariots are just insanely powerful. Now Tokugawa has no access to strategic Ressources I hope. On the Screen you can also see the first Catapults coming in from the south. You might think "uh, that took a long time, 4 cities have fallen already" but it's not like that, it's more that the Conquest with 2move-units and a Supermedic is really fast, not even 100y (10 turns) have passed since I DoWed Toku.


1180 BC, a bad thing happens: Frederick got a Great Engineer from the Mids and the only Wonder that's still available (and that he can construct) is the MoM! I cursed Civ at that Moment, first the Mids, then the HGs, then the GL, and now the MoM, this cannot be. I make a desperate move from which I don't know if it is possible at all. I know, that AI values the sixtine Chapel higher than the MoM, so I gift Frederick Music:



I succeed! Frederick switches Construction from the MoM to the sixtine Chapel and instant-constructs it using his GE! The MoM is still available to me!

When talking about trades, there were 2 others in the meantime: I got Philosphy from Lizzy and CoL from Willem so finally, Pacifism and Caste System are available to me:





This was the 25th trade btw XD

And just because we're not on topic (the war) atm, another thing that's not absolutely on topic: A picture of 6 Workers chopping out the MoM in Hiereapolis (this is focus! ) :




But back to topic, in 1040 BC, the remaining 6 War Chariots and the newly produced 2 Catapults are rdy to attack Tokugawas Capital "Kyoto" :



A beautiful Screen, isn't it? On it, you see a Spearman and 3 Archers, all heavily promoted due to Tokugawa's Traits, and you see that it's another hills city again and that it has 50% Walls defense. Now I could bombard it, but that would only mean that he'd whip more defenders, it's time for the awesome power of the Collateral Dmg done by Catapults:



After having sacrificed my 2 City-Raider promoted Catapults, the defenders have lost 15-50% of their Hit Points. My Chariots already have 40%+ attacking against the fortified Spearman! Note that that Spearman even has Formation promotion, but my chariot has Combat 4 + Shock, which isn't that bad either XD



I attack the city, and loose only 1 Chariot (again, no luck, chances after the Spear were like 80%+ ) , and the next GG is born, his name is Ultralord (note that I mixed this up in the last post, the 1st GG I named Lord of Ultima, the 2nd one is Ultralord. If you wonder about those names, well, they're 3xTr3m3 1337 0\/\/|\|4G3 !111



I discover something dangerous though: Toku had an SoD which was attacking Hatty and is just on the way towards Kyoto!



"Let's stop that fighting Toku, in real we're friends, aren't we? Go, take your SoD and annoy Hatty with it, she's the real mean one of us two!" XD



--------------

So after 100y of war, 2 friends finally find to each other again, but for how long? I conquered 5 of Tokugawas cities, 3 of them being really good and 1 being really good after having refounded, the last one, getting good once it has conquered the source of Food from Hatty, but I already told you, there is no happy living with neighbours.

Next part: Another clearview at 1000 BC! Better read it, or "I'll go rampage" XD .

Seraiel

 

[WelshGandalf]

Good writing, keep it up. Gifting Freddy Music and it actually working was brilliant

 

[Manco Capac]

Good writing, keep it up. Gifting Freddy Music and it actually working was brilliant

Agreed on this. Seraiel, you just made learn another trick: wonder prioritization for AI and diverting their focus.

 

[Seraiel]

Good writing, keep it up. Gifting Freddy Music and it actually working was brilliant

Agreed on this. Seraiel, you just made learn another trick: wonder prioritization for AI and diverting their focus.

TY two! I think in your sentence though, Tachy, the Subject is missing. I made learn who any trick? You? Everybody? Wasn't this trick discovered yet?

And not to come of as "being needy", but what's up with the others? The thread has about 1k clicks now, but only like 15 answers, that's 1-2% of the people answering the, is this normal, or is something wrong with my Writeup? Is it the because it's "only a Writeup" and not a game for anyone to shadow? (I didn't post any saves or in Spoilers this time, because nobody ever shadowed my insane Marathon games. )

If you find it unreadable, plz write at least one sentence and say so, if possible with tips to improve. I know, most of you want to watch videos of AZ, but a 224h game actually cannot be taped, I thought being insane, playing an insane round and investing an insane amount of time in both, the round and the Writeup would make a really hot topic?

Again, I do this for myself as a check of what I did, to better learn and improve for what comes next, is it because I didn't made it to beat WastinTime's score of 3.2M again and only put up new record-score for non-Incan games? In the last Replay, people were asking for a round with a non-Incan Civ, where are you?

Sera

 

[DMOC]

My ongoing (well, just finished it tonight ) DMOC deity game has over 16400 posts and 164 replies. That's a ratio of less than 1:100, which is worse than what you have so I wouldn't worry. Most of the time I guess it's good news as people aren't relentlessly criticizing your game. Furthermore, I think games that are being played "live" as they go tend to get more replies as people can follow along. Of course, even if this were live, most won't be following this format as deity/huge/marathon isn't a popular combination for most players. But watching this makes me want to at least play deity/large/epic next ....

 

[Quibblesome]

Amazing story. Still following it keenly. Loved the Frederick move. Are there particular conditions to get the slave rebellion event or are you just being super unlucky?

Tough to always post, tbh if we had a +1 feature I'm sure you'd get a high score. I only want to post if I have questions to ask (like about slave rebellions)

 

[Jester Fool]

The thread has about 1k clicks now, but only like 15 answers, that's 1-2% of the people answering the, is this normal, or is something wrong with my Writeup?

Nothing wrong with the write up at all. I really appreciate the effort you put into it. I would attribute the lack of replies to the fact that the game is already finished (so no "how about you do this" type comments). Keep on trucking...you're doing fine.

 

[Seraiel]

Amazing story. Still following it keenly. Loved the Frederick move. Are there particular conditions to get the slave rebellion event or are you just being super unlucky?

Tough to always post, tbh if we had a +1 feature I'm sure you'd get a high score. I only want to post if I have questions to ask (like about slave rebellions)

My ongoing (well, just finished it tonight ) DMOC deity game has over 16400 posts and 164 replies. That's a ratio of less than 1:100, which is worse than what you have so I wouldn't worry. Most of the time I guess it's good news as people aren't relentlessly criticizing your game. Furthermore, I think games that are being played "live" as they go tend to get more replies as people can follow along. Of course, even if this were live, most won't be following this format as deity/huge/marathon isn't a popular combination for most players. But watching this makes me want to at least play deity/large/epic next ....

Nothing wrong with the write up at all. I really appreciate the effort you put into it. I would attribute the lack of replies to the fact that the game is already finished (so no "how about you do this" type comments). Keep on trucking...you're doing fine.

Well, you three I didn't ask, as you did answer :> I was asking the other 900 clickers. Guess I'll have to wait to get their answer :>

Concerning your answers:

@ Quibblesome: You can view all Randomevents / Quests in the list here. Possibility for a Slaver Revolt is Slavery Civic AND city with population 4 or more AND WRITING or MONOTHEISM or PRIESTHOOD or IRON_WORKING. It's a quite common event, but the chances for getting it 3 times in under 200 turns in the same city, well, those are even lower than the number of posts you have in ‰ Note that that's a PRML sign, not percentage.

+1 feature would be really nice...

@ DMOC: If I'm better of than you, I'm happy I already experienced the "I have nothing to critisize, so I don't answer" attitude in the Football Manager Story I wrote. That one was over 50 pages long, had 50k clicks and about 1k answers. Guess that was really good for a forum with 400 users, actually this is the point why I expected more in this forum. Civ is more popular and Civfanatics a hugely visited website, the name "fanatics" is fitting, but I've only gotten to know very few of those until now, most are just quiet, which I find uncommon for a "fanatic" .

@ JesterFool: The game is finished, I understand that that's negative, but hey, it was played under HoF rules, it can't be played in publicity as that would be against the rules. Why is HoF so unpopular?

Sera

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Umm well I will not lie, and I will admit that probably around 100 or so of the viewers are just me. >.>

 

[Seraiel]

Umm well I will not lie, and I will admit that probably around 100 or so of the viewers are just me. >.>

Thx for making my day, will write the next part when 5 of the other 800 clickers have answered or one has admitted, that he did the same as zero did .