Replaying / reloading

Calanthian

Emperor
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Messages
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Netherlands
Having lost quite a stack at incredible odds (at a hill top, behind a river) my opponent clearly admits that he has replayed / reloaded.
(I won't mention his name). Furthermore he tells me that all experienced players do this and that it is allowed.

While I had the clear impression that it wasn't >
so in fact so far I have been fighting with my hands behind my back.


This is why I ask:

IS REPLAYING / RELOADING ALLOWED IN A PBEM?
 
I hope not! They can last for ages. I never replay combat turns. The only time I have reloaded is when I moved to the wrong space with a worker.

And I think I have only done that once anyway.

If it is the norm that players replay turns, I'd consider stopping playing PBEM games entirely. Do pitboss games allow reloading? Unfortunately pitboss games need to have the pitboss server running on someone's machine most of the time to work properly.
 
It can't be checked, so forbidding it makes not much good.
I agree that turn can be replayed in case of serious mistake with movement, but not because ou want that city attacking with 3 spearmen.
 
Repost from another thread:

I was being over-sensationalist in my post in another thread for effect, that's the sort of guy I am.

The problem with reloading to get the optimum combo for attack order is that it just encourages building huge unbeatable stacks before starting a war.

It also takes a while (a minute or so) to load up a turn for me.

I play HoF games in single player so I can't reload, ever or else they get rejected. As someone else said, I think using reloading goes against the spirit of the game.

That said, I have reloaded a couple of times:

1) Moved worker onto the wrong hill by mistake
2) Forgot to change my research path due to drunkenness (was teching optics at 0% until I could steal monarchy - forgot to switch immediately to feudalism at 100%).

My tuppence hapenny worth.
 
Lurking and spotted what has been discussed innumerable times since the advent of PBEM. Replay happens. Is it encouraged, no. Can it be policed, no. A gray area. We trust in one another that replay isn't abused. Some feel replay isn't to be permitted. How do you enforce it? You either trust the other players or not. When you accidentally screw up and click when you didn't mean to...tough? Your wife, son, dog, or TV distracts you...click, argh.
To me, this is a game and if I feel uncomfortable with someone's gameplay I will avoid playing with them. Generally I'm trusting and wouldn't call it cheating. Reload/replay does happen. I don't believe CIV Fanatics replay a turn until they have the perfect move. I trust that CIV Fanatics are ethical. I can't speak to this issue in MP as I don't play MP.
RE: This present issue with your game. Deztro is correct and then again he's not. Over the years I've read it as trying a move out as in chess and putting your piece back. I don't like that style here as fog of war can be dispelled and attack odds can be adjusted. I prefer to play straighter as Paradigm does. It's a mix 30-70, 50-50, I don't know it's still trust in what we say to each other here.

Please read also the following posts, as this is is not a black and white issue.

And Deztro don't deserve to be depicted as a cheater..

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=414979&page=8

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=412176&page=6
 
Since the first day I play Civ4 PBEM nobody told me there were rules. You had to do just one thing: open the turn, play as you like, end the turn and mail that to the next player in line. Therefore I make the best out of every turn. Played and reloaded this turn, making changes to the order I played my units, until I was satisfied with the outcome.

Now suddenly people are making rules that reloading isn't allowed, it should be considered as cheating ! Compare it to a player who has always played rugby now has to apply the rules of regular football. In rugby everything was allowed (as long as you don't kick the other players nuts), and halfway the game I'm being told that I have to play nice !

I'm convinced that many players play this way; I've seen large stacks of units of mine wiped in a single turn while the enemy had inferior forces and had almost no losses after the battle. Just like I had the opportunity to finish off the enemy when the odds were against me, just by reloading my turn and choose another order of playing my units. No way that is gonna happen without reloads.

Consider this; I think I'm a reasonably good strategic player. When I was the only person around here that made reloads I would be superiour and won most of my games. Fact is, I lost most of them....

I never made it a secret I play this way. I'm amazed to see that so many people react negative against this style of play, because I know for sure that many players are reloading, they just don't have the guts to admit it.

It's the same situation with the use of anabolic stereoids in the bodybuilding scene; no one admits he uses them, but to become the best, you simply have to use them. Another example is no guy watches porn on the internet but when you see their temporary internet files you'll see that.... erm... never mind. :D

Know that reloads are not controllable ant therefore unstoppable. People can and will make use of it.

I just want to share my vision of the situation. Feel free to start a discussion, I won't take part in it. For me it's time to look for another hobby, since the fun factor in Civ4 PBEM is gone for me.

I'm ending all the games I take place in. I will stil open turns sent to me, remove the password, save it and mail that turn to the person that hosts that game. The hoster can decide to mail it to the replacemnt player of kick my Civ to AI.

Finally, I want to let you know that I don't bear grudges against anyone. I also hope no one hates me for what I did.
I just want to thank everyone for the time they shared with me playing.

Thanks guys, It was a blast ! :goodjob:
 
I don't know how long you've been playing PBEM Deztro, but I've been playing since about 2001, and reloading has always been a no-no, even though many still do it. That's up to them, and how much satisfaction they get from winning by cheating.

Every other aspect of the game is thrashed out in the introductory thread of each game, this one isn't because it's taken as read. I believe you when you say that you never knew otherwise.

I think you should reconsider resigning all of your games, and perhaps adapt to what the community norm is. It's not that hard.

I'm reasonably OK with playing in games where turns may be replayed, but ONLY if it's made explicit that that's what we'll be playing by from the beginning of the game.
 
Well ... in a game with Barbarians and Huts I'll definatelly not see the reason to allow explicitely reloading of a save : those settings put alot of advantage for somebody who use this techniques against somebody who don't apply it.

For other games ... don't know what to say ...
 
I always thought you put up a really great fight. Thanks for taking over a nearly hopeless situation in 1 game and making it worthwhile. If you want to continue to play, I will play with you. If you want to reload, just let me know, and I will reload also. I haven't been reloading currently, as I normally play by the GOTM/HoF rules, to each is own.
 
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