Representation or universal suffrage?

[Meester_henk]

Rule is usually that later civic is better except maybe in war time. But in government civics I have used much more representation. Rough difference seems to be that representation gives more technology and universal suffrage gives more production.

In current game I am using universal suffrage because I have very strong economy and can afford to buy buildings. Also I'm pretty advanced in technology. I will get space ship technologies in time even without representation.

Choose representation if:
- your unsure if you are doing good in technology (I compare to real life or other nations in game)

Choose universal suffrage if:
- you have lots of money from religions, great merchants, aborted wonder projects etc.
- you have Kremlin
- you have lots of towns

What do you think?

 

[HerrDoktor]

Actually, unless if you are using SE economy - in which case Representation is a must, must have - or have some happiness issues - more common in early game with Pyramids - I think that Universal Suffrage is by far a most powerful choice. Put the slider to 0 for some turns and buy a brand new country for yourself - or an army to hijack one.

 

[Wacky]

Don't run universal suffrage when you've got less towns like in a SE.

 

[Jazzmail]

I'd choose representation over US if

1. I was running state property. Then I'd have more watermills and workshops and fewer towns (rep + caste + sp)
2. SE
3. during an early pyramids game when villages and cottages have not become towns yet, while +happiness is big help without luxuries and MPs
4. hybrid economy where specialists are the deal breaker
5. a warmonger with WW being an issue in core cities

US is pretty much a late milking game civic really.

 

[dubrown]

US and pretty much all of the "last" civics is pretty good in late game, peaceful games. But I mostly tends to not be that peaceful towards the end so US isn't anything I use alot.

I tend to run either Rep or Police State late game depending on situation. If I go the peaceful route towards culture, dip, space or whatever I usually has a SE thus benefiting from Rep. Or on the more normal route towards world domination war weariness is usually a problem and Police State is needed.

But there's some us for US. Having a spiritual or during a golden age, saving up lot's of cash/using a GM for a trademission, can mean you can produce quite a large army or needed buildings in a very short time without adding unhappines from whipping/drafting. Switch to US for a few turns milk the buy option and then switch back.

Ofc, a CE will usually benefit from US most of the time productionwise.

 

[The Rook]

Rule is usually that later civic is better except maybe in war time.

I'm not sure to who that rule belongs to, but it's a pretty poor one IMO. Just taking a few examples that could be applied VERY loosely:

Police State < Representation
Nationhood < Bureaucracy (Obviously not when drafting heavily)
Serfdom < Slavery
Environmentalism < Free Market

US probably beats Rep if you have towns everywhere. Generally more cottages means less production, so the extra hammers provided by US help to counter this weakness. The rush purchase option can be nice, but in practice I only use it when I need to build something very quickly. Normally I find that investing commerce in building is wasteful, and the free hammers from towns (+modifiers) mean that most items can be built quickly anyway. If you don't have lots of towns, Rep should win by default.

 

[TBT]

A very up-to-date question for me because I have a dilemma about it in my current game. As I have piramids I could choose any of them. Until the industrial era everything was clear - representation was better because I had temporary happiness level problems in my main cities, didn't have surplus money and strived to be in top 3 in science.
During the industrial era the situation has changed. Thanks to mining corporation and religion spamming I got considerable surplus in my budget. So soon I switched to universal sufrage to build what remained to be built in my cities. Universal sufrage worked well.
But now I have almost everything built and still a lot of money. Universal sufrage becomes less useful as I don't need to buy things - with mining corporation I have enough hammers. So I'm seriously thinking about switching back to representation to have that science bonus. The only thing that stops me is the anarchy period and that I'm also thinking about buying wonders to prevent rivals from building them faster. Difficult problem.

 

[Mik1984]

Kremlin also works with slavery.

 

[brianb1974]

Universal sufferage is only good once you have a lot of towns to use the bonus and make a bunch of cash to buy buildings.

Before that, representation is much stronger.

But sometimes (when you have serious, empire-wide happiness issues) HR is the right choice. If I'm having happiness problems and can't build the pyramids, I beeline monarchy for hereditary rule.

 

[Stylesrj]

Universal Suffrage = US

Don't you see what's going on? You're turning your civs into the United States! Abandon that civic comrades!

On a more serious note, I play on Settler. Representation is first, then US when I feel like Slavery has done it's job...

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

This is like asking what's better, oranges or spaceships.

 

[Stylesrj]

Oranges FTW

 

[say1988]

Universal suffrage is my late game war civic. Sure you lose the happiness bonus of HR and Rep, but along with Nationhood, it helps expand your army at an incredible rate, especially after emancipation rules out slavery.
That or total cottage spam. Else I use Rep.

I do love my spiritual leaders, so when someone DoWs:
switch from Rep to US, Nationhood or Vassalge, and possibly slavery, and theocracy. Turn off research, all to gold
Mass produce an army via buying, drafting, and/or whipping (as I generally lack troops in peace time this is necessary to take the fight to the enemy)
Once your army is strong enough or you start feeling WW, go to rep
If WW gets bad enough and is crippling, switch Police State
Once peace is established, switch to Rep.

 

[gettingfat]

US and pretty much all of the "last" civics is pretty good in late game, peaceful games. But I mostly tends to not be that peaceful towards the end so US isn't anything I use alot.

US is about increased production, and production can be used for infrastructure, building spaceship, and MILITARY, so US is NOT necessarily for peaceful games at all.

 

[gettingfat]

The benefits of representation are more obvious in early and mid-game. People forget the extra happiness, which is HUGE in early game. It's true you can use hierachy for happiness, but it simply locked up your army in the cities. The extra 3 beakers per specialist is a lot in early game, and it's easier to get GP at that stage as well. However, later in the game happiness is easier to get, and GP production tends to slow down. The extra beakers are still great, though.

US is useful only when you have matured cottages, and a lot of them. So unless you consciously run CE it's pointless to use US (except rush buying units in emergency). US belongs to mid to late game. I always smile when some of the AIs (e.g. Gandhi) build pyramid and then switch to US in 500BC. Have no idea what he tries to achieve.

 

[shaunthegreat]

I think US is especially helpful in terra maps. I used to play terra maps all the time, and what I would do is bee-line for pyramids, and get representation, which is great for small/medium empires. Then when I'm founding cities on the new continent, switch to US. Then you build a city, buy a courthouse, and maybe buy a worker. I still tended to build most of my settlers to keep costs down and science up.

 

[mystyfly]

meester henk, you could just as well open anothe thread asking: 'CE or SE. Which is better??'

 

[Meester_henk]

meester henk, you could just as well open anothe thread asking: 'CE or SE. Which is better??'

I believe in cottage economy.

I didn't exactly ask which is better. I just try to find out when to use them. My eyes have been opened to see the advantages in US, so I will be using it more.

 

[mystyfly]

I didn't exactly ask which is better. I just try to find out when to use them. My eyes have been opened to see the advantages in US, so I will be using it more.

When using a CE, use US (to get at least SOME hammers in your cities) and use rushbuy often.
When using a SE, use Rep for the beakerboost and the happy.

 

[Meester_henk]

I believe in cottage economy.

Or should I say mixed economy. Rarely they are pure CE or SE.