Request for a Civ4: BtS "Intermediate" Succession Game

heyhey.

if we're attacking japan, i agree with wiping out toku and spawning a new colony. after we grant 2 cities, we can "liberate" any new cities on the continent, right?

furthermore, i think japan has only recently reached longbows? i think rifles alone (maybe with some cats or trebs to knock down %'s) should be enuf to take the entire island.

** re benefits, gaining the resources would be nice. and i suppose japan would be a good place for our units to gain experience. let's do it!
***

also, i'm unclear, so are we voting? or continuing our games? (i think they largely are comparable, but i'm open to either way.)

cheers,
asaegyn
 
Maybe if some-one's not keen on the state of their game they could play from someone else's, otherwise plough on and compare in another thirty turns (which I think is a pretty decent interval, long enough for meaningful things to happen but short enough to make games worth comparing).

Edit: crossed posts with Jamesds, 25 turns is ok by me.

I agree with leaving this option open. In my case, I think I have done pretty lame job with my Japan invasion so far, though I already have horses. IMHO Erathelix is on a better path to it, and I'm waging the option to start with his save.

I am also certain that taking over Toku's island is a good move. Pigswill's game proved that a strong colony is a great partner, although I must agree with some of you guys - China was better kept in our empire than handed away. No vassalizing for me, just a plain and simple conquest.
I admit you are right - horses so late aren't a big advantage anyway with steel just a century or two away. The point of taking Toku's island now is to have his territory ( through a colony ) now, more than just the fact we get horses.

25 turns sounds great for me. I'll try to do my best to have the game in before Thursday evening.
 
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/10009/asaegyn_turn_255_AD-1725.CivBeyondSwordSave

alright guys.
here is my next 25 turns

Spoiler :

short term goals - wage war against japan, and replace it with our colonies.
tech towards rifling and astronomy, eventual target assembly line.

start building up towards this goal (mainly trebuchets until rifling is got)
prepare to do a triple switch from US --> Rep, Free Market --> Mercantilism and Bureau --> Nationhood just as our GA is about to end.


***

turns - washington comes with a request for Music, i turn him away, goes from Annoyed to Furious.

Sury asks me to join him in a war against Washington, i refuse, he's still at pleased.

Caesar demands Gems, I accept. See trade opportunities, so I trade Pig and Sugar for Corn and Gold.

Willem asks for a map trade, i get 30 gold from him.

. Rifling in, start on Astronomy, and begin making rifles on our original continent. Upgrade the CR2 swords and axes on China to rifles.

Have 8 trebs and 6 rifles done by the time astro is in. Upgrade our three galleys to galleons, and begin building galleons in Babylon and Borsippa.

GA ends, we're at +60gold at 50% and teching Chem in 3 turns. Putting getting Corp to last so we can milk GL (tho in retrospect, with mercantilism, i don't think it made a difference).

Fourth galleon built, load up 6 trebs and 3 rifles (2 more trebs and 1 CR2 rifle is loaded on china but won't make the first wave of attacks). Toku is just beginning to research engineering. Land outside of his horse city. Bombard, rifle has 61% chance (the CR2 guys haven't made it over yet). Sac 2 trebs, and the rest of the rifles easily take the city. Lose one at 80% odds :S.

This war as expected is a walkthrough.

In other news, Julius and Sury have ganged up on Washington and have each taken one city from him.

In the meantime, Willem is teching liberalism, i see he is 5 turns away from it, so i trade Lib for Drama and all his gold.

Sury and Jules make peace with Washington. I make progress against japan, losing 1 rifle and 1 treb, taking 2 more cities.

Japan lands a stack of 7 cats, 1 samurai, and 2 chariots outside of the northernmost china continent city. There is a mace there that i upgrade to a rifle, and i draft another. Whittle that stack to 2 cats and chariots rifles on turn 255. he poisons the water supplies of our newly conquered cities.

At this point in time, i have 3 japanese cities. I finish my moves and cede control of the 3 jap cities to darius. He gets 2 rifles in each of them. This frees up my defending boys to finish off Kyoto (which has the only notable resistance, which is basically three CG3 Lbs, and a whole bunch of irrelevant units for rifles.)

Assembly line is due in, i think 2 or 6 turns (i won't check cuz it takes me about 10 min to load a game this late...)

in retrospect, i think i made a mistake going after japan. he's waaay behind, and i think the rifles would have been more useful taking out either washington when he's really weak and establishing a beachhead to take out Sury, or for seriously denting Sury early (he has SoZ in his capital). His best units right now are elephants which are no match for our rifles.

oh i also mistakenly thought we already had globe theatre in beijing and i drafted 1 unit.. must remember to build those theatres and build GT there.

i've mainly stopped military builds in anticipation of assembly line. however, the rifles i have built have taken our power to the same level as sury and julius.
Spoiler :
demographix_2550000.JPG

Spoiler :
cities2550001.JPG



***
*** added from edit ***oops.
Spoiler :
Got a GG, settled in HE city as instructor. Got two great merchants, currently sleeping in Beijing, (maybe save for GA when we get assembly line to build pentagon, factories etc. quick quick?).
some analysis

Spoiler :

for future after assembly line, i would suggest researching steel for cannons, then to railroad and eventually biology.

once line is in, start factories, then churn out infantry. with a large enuf swarm, send them over to america, and take all his cities except for atlanta. I suggest this bcuz sury has a huge stack in a newly cap'd american city, and atlanta's borders are pushing it.

Once only atlanta is left, i would move all units beside there, and ideally wipe out that stack in turn whilst declaring on Sury. Ceding independence at this point to the rest of hte US would result in 2 inf in each city, although i'm thinking it might be wise to wait until we have a few more cities so we maximize the number of spawned units.

Alternatively, beelining towards his cap for the SoZ might be better. Or... since he is please, we might first bribe him to attack Willem with a tech (he's willing to do so right now for education). Unfortunately he won't attack Jules, but maybe i can get Jules to attack him. nonetheless, various degrees of incited mayhem seems to be a good idea.


So here's a report and some analysis, let me know what you guys think!

Cheers,

asaegyn
 
I am done with my 25 ( err, 26 in fact :blush: ) turns:

Spoiler :


At first, I decided to buildup economically & militarily. A GA was due in 7 turns ( for Taj in Shanghai ), so I decided to use the first 20 turns to get the eco and tech as far as possible, while building a comfortable cuirassiers/trebuchets force to meet Toku.

232
(IT) Banking -> Printing Press
Start a settler on China mainland to get pig/crab/flood plains spot to the NW.

Akkad went Cuirassiers, Opis – Trebs for most of this turn set. Babylon helped a little bit. The two galleons made several voyages between Borsippa and Satsuma. I continued spying on Toku – unhappiness, poison, city revolt, until I got caught a few turns later… :(

Another thing I tried to do, to improve our relations with everyone, was to check when they were 1 turn away from a tech discovery, and get whatever gold they were giving for this tech. I got more than 700 gold this way, from JC and Willem.

238
(IT) Printing Press -> Economics
We finally start our GA with Taj Mahal:



Markets, Grocers, Banks and Custom Houses started to be built whenever possible ( well, and when not training troops ).

241
(IT) Economics -> Replaceable Parts
Borsippa asked to be Persian… How is it possible, didn’t I treat this city well??? We learn that we are 20 millions.

242
GP born in Beijing. As I plan to war with Toku at the end of the GA, I decide to keep it for the “recovery” GA, just after the war is over.
I start some Privateers in Nanjing to pillage Toku’s seafood.

244
(IT) Rep Parts ->Rifling
Next turn I settled Erech:



As soon as it was settled, Buddhism spread into it. Cool, no more cut trade deals by the Willem & his jovial fellows, far in the AP.
I start Globe at Beijing. I was considering doing it at Borsippa, but Beijing won with its numerous seafood. There will be some whipping and drafting going there…

250
(IT) Rifling -> Steel
Mass upgrade Cuirass to Cavalry in Tokyo. Put research on 0% to raise more upgrading money.

Just before the GA ended I decided to get our defensive troops up to date, in case of some psycho decided to attack us while on war with Toku. History proved me right, as on the next turn I spot this ( next to Shanghai / Sippar ):



I went on drafting whatever possible on Chinese land first, and on mainland next, dumping my happiness around. I decided to whip Globe at Beijing and draft even more.
On the same (251) turn, I declared war on Toku, with some better troops than the last time:



The forces split almost equally in two – one went after Kyoto, the other after Kagoshima . I decided against going for Nara as it had several Longbows on the hill. It would be our last target, after Kyoto, Kagoshima and Osaka are ours.
Elephants were thrown on Toku’s wandering troops, wounding and killing some.

On the other side of the world, JC, who was already pi**ed of with our colony ( what the **** has Cyrus done to make him feel this way ) declared war on him, and regardless how pleased he was with us, as we are Cyrus master, we were in war with him too…
This is going to be annoying. At least with Globe at Beijing, there was no unhappiness issues there, so drafting went on in China, as JC’s galleons where approaching Shanghai.
He landed his troops on the hill S of Shanghai ( the same hill where our brave axes spent several years besieging the Chinese :cool: ) :



I decided to attack with all our available rifles, as no sword or arc stands to a rifle. Losing only one of them, I decimated this force to only the 2 trebs and one wounded Praetorian. They were finished off on the next turn – immediate danger is gone. Though, JC didn’t want to settle for peace yet.

On our main front, things were going further – defenses were going down at Kyoto and Kagoshima ( though very slowly – 4% by Treb shot ) and our Cav force burnt Nagoya in the meantime :



On the same turn, I decided ( having 70%+ probability ) not to wait for the culture bonus to get smaller ( for the next 15 turns or so ) and to attack Kyoto. The first wave left only the trebs in place. I finally got the city on the next turn :



Kept to become the future’s colony capital! ;)
Between turns, our wounded Jumbo didn’t resist to the wounded pike and Japs got back Tokyo. I recovered it smoothly on next turn.
On the same one, I decided to go for Kagoshima, having some nice winning odds. I lost a musket and seriously wounded my cavs but here we were:



Kept it too, of course.

Then I tilted – the turn number! Weren’t we suppose to play only 25? Well, in my game there is one turn too much. Sorry for this guys.

So, let’s sum up a little.
Japan will be no more, at least the mainland ( they have two islands to the north I intend to leave them ), in several turns. It should take no more than 5-6 turns to get Osaka and Nara, and see a new buddy colony on this island.

Rome is annoying ( they research Mil Science ), I hope they will whip away Cyrus so we can get to peace pretty soon. This is the drawback of the colony system – knowing how psycho JC is, I managed him very well, trading plenty, offering his almost discover techs for gold etc, gaining up to +9 with him, just to keep him away and busy with someone else. And here he is, our stupid vassal, spoiling the whole game’s effort and warring with JC…

Washington might become an issue too as he is already researching Mil Trad. Maybe if we get peace with JC, he will attack America with us ? Surya should go along us too.

To finish, here is Japan as of 1730AD:



Plan for next turn set:
- Get Osaka and Nara, colonize the whole island
- Get peace with JC asap ( well as soon as he wishes, I check every turn… )
- GA to eco recovery
- try to set up war between the axis of good ( us, JC, Surya ) – the mighty hindu team ( yes, I plan to convert to get them on my side ), and the evil Washington minions…

Beware of Willlem, he is already becoming a power with all his wonders.


I’m interested to see how went your ones!
Good luck if you haven't played yet!
 
@asaegyn

Spoiler :


Though we went different paths, we are pretty much in the same spot now.
My Jap are stronger than yours though ;)

I agree on your analysis of Washington target. I think we shoud get there fast. I would do I alongside JC and Surya, though we don't need the latter. The problem is, in my game JC got pi**** off with my colony and I lost all diplo with him. Also, he researches Military Science, so he might be very nasty. In your try, you are pretty well into taking him faster.

Nice game anyway! :goodjob:


@all
Are you still up guys ? ;)
 
Sorry for being late, I was busy yesterday matriculating at my University, but this afternoon will be relatively empty, so I'll try my best to get my game in by tonight. :)

BTW, pawelo, are you able to load an autosave so we are all even? I guess 1 turn at the moment doesn't matter too much, but still... :spank: ;)
 
@jamesds
Sorry, no autosave any longer.
I have run another one since....

I hope it doesn't spoil too much.
 
Hi guys, sorry for being late, I was buying a new house :)

Now for my 25 turns

Spoiler :

Well, I have thought alot about the arguments of leaving jpn alone and striking someone else. I decided to do something different. In my regular game I would strike the weakest enemy at this stage and in modern combat wipe all strong ones. Washington was the target :)

I have moved the fleet I prepared to destroy JPN near Boson. I have declared war and landed forces. After several turns of bombing by frigates and catapults boson was our. At the same time Caesar joined the party and declared on Washington. Now USA was against 3 enemies. I have taken 3 more cities till 25 turn limit. Now USA is at our mercy.

Techwise I have used GS to hurry physics to enable air support for war effort.
I'm now in process of gathering ~20 airships.

I have also targeted Communism to enable State Property, which I took just after research was completed.

Our empire in 1725:

Civ4ScreenShot0023.JPG


Civ4ScreenShot0024.JPG


 

Attachments

1600-1725
Spoiler :

Started off as a peaceful round. George and Sury having another of their interminable wars :) , later on Jules and Hannibal dogpiled on George, George lost a couple of cities and made peace, still at war with Jules at the end of the round.
Founded Elassar in 1610 between DK and Borsippa.
Got Taj in 1625 for a free GA, when that finished I immediately started another GA.
Built ironworks in Akkad, currently building SoL.
Picked up a Gartist. Should get Gsci from physics.
Techwise: steel, milsci, corporation, RP, steam, scimeth, researching physics.
From Darius: constitution, democracy, rifling, DR, researching biology.

Started building up an army of cannon and grens. Declared on Tok in 1685. Captured Yokahama (north of iron island). Captured Naigisaki (north of china island, its my only source of coal so I'm keeping it. Captured Satsuma and Nara on japanese mainland; both on hills; Satsuma had 3*CG2 LB so lost a cannon there. No other casualties. Got a stack of medic warlord, 5 cannon, 6 grens and a couple of maces heading towards Tokyo so Japan looks toast. WW is a problem, running 10% culture to counter it, may have to increase further.
 
hey guys. i've been having problems connecting to this site (it's really weird, it just started timing out from home for 3 days, even though i could connect to it from elsewhere...)

anyhow, erathelix, congrats on buying a house!

to the matter at hand - we're still waiting for Jamesds' game.

Spoiler :

some interesting games going on. how will we proceed from here? Obviously, while people have made different individual choices, the games seem all relatively aligned. The objectives in each are essentially the same, and i think we've all indirectly agreed on a domination type victory.

it is nice to see people waging war with different units and mini goals as well. my army consists of rifles and trebs, (soon to b infantry). pigswill has amassed cannons and grenadiers, erathelix went for grenadiers, cuirassiers and airships, soon to add rifles to the mix. and pawelo is walking through japan with cavalry and rifles with cannons soon to join the mix.

i suppose i'll hold back on critiques of our games until jamesds get his in, but i thought I'd try to keep the discussion alive, as we seem to be on a stop-go cycle.


cheers,

asaegyn
 
re victory:

AFAIK land and pop from vassals and colonies only count as 50% towards domination. For example if your colonies/vassals have 20%world pop and 20% land between them it would only count as 10% of each.

If so this means that if you have 40% of land and you need 64% (another 24%) your vassals would need 48%land (for a grand total of 88%!)
 
About my game, I think I did really poorly this time. My economy is suffering trying hard to keep up with the land i conquered, and I'm out of ideas how to solve these problems.
 
I'm really sorry to make you guys wait, so much has been happening. Just continue the discussion, and I will post mine ASAP. Feel free to continue if that's what you want to do.
 
Continuing from post 391...

Because we started on a relatively small landmass we're short of land towards domination target. To increase our land holdings by amassing overseas territory means steadily mounting colony expenses which affects research making it more difficult to have a modern army.

My plan is therefore to go for a pseudo-diplomatic victory. Vassals and colonies are compelled to vote for you even if they think you're a complete @$$. This means that you need to control (directly or indirectly) about 65% of the world population and build United Nations.

The way I hope to proceed is to get Darius to research electricity and radio for me while I pick up artillery, assembly line and ideally railroad/combustion (though that may be optimistic). Once Darius has radio I'll pick it up in trade, research mass media and build UN. In the meantime I keep fighting, probably vassalise Tok then start on the main continent. George is the obvious first target but he may end up vassalising to someone else first so have to see what happens.
 
I have the same concern as you Erathelix, though we weren't warring the same guys.

My point is that this war is so long that the WW kills my eco. I hope it'll finish pretty soon, though I can't see it as for now.

@pigswill - your pseudo-diplo is nice, I think it's the best way we have as for now. Well, of course, we can still go into space before Willem, but will have to slow him down a bit if we decide this way.
 
An alternative approach is to go for conquest. Kill or vassalise everyone.
 
Yes, vassalising counts towards conquest. I don't know what the situation is regarding colonies and conquest.
 
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