Request the game admins to investigate the C3B move ?
- Thread starter Rik Meleet
- Start date
rcoutme
Emperor
Rik: no matter where our fleet is this turn, please do not land until you are at Fortaleeza as that should be our first objective (with Rio be the second).
BTW, if CDZ informed CGN about all our chats and stuff, is it legal when contact trading comes only with printing press?
Just something that I noticed when I read the thread at the UN: they were sending chats between us to CGN before we met CGN, I think.
Just something that I noticed when I read the thread at the UN: they were sending chats between us to CGN before we met CGN, I think.
Donovan Zoi
The Return
Ankka said:BTW, if CDZ informed CGN about all our chats and stuff, is it legal when contact trading comes only with printing press?
Just something that I noticed when I read the thread at the UN: they were sending chats between us to CGN before we met CGN, I think.
As long as CGN never had contact with us during that time, I don't think there's anything that could be done. Conspiring against a team that hasn't met one of the conspirers, while scandalous, is actually quite legal ( I think).
Let me look into it.
RegentMan
Deity
Yay! Now we can get the other teams into trouble too! 
If you can find proof, then I would support it. Otherwise, no.
If you can find proof, then I would support it. Otherwise, no.
Donovan Zoi
The Return
Nope, no rules broken.
akots
Poet
@Ankka: idea is rather intriguing and we might try to exploit it. At least there is no reason as to why we should not.
Well, the rule seems a bit obscure imo. In general, my understanding of it is that if CGN had no contact with CFC, then CDZ should not have informed CGN about our existence or the fact that they have met contact with us. CDZ telling to CGN that they have contact with CFC is actually already violation of the said rule unless one of these civs have Printing Press.
We can file the complaint and see how the admins would react towards it.
The other thing is that first, we don't know whether they have researched Printing Press. Seems extremely unlikely. Second, there has been no contact of CGN with CFC before we have made actual contact in the game, so no rule broken here. On the other hand, what about C3B? It might be CGN had negotiated with them without actually meeting them? How then can we know about it? It could have been that CGN had negotiated with C3B through the intermediacy of CDZ but I'm not sure to which extent it is permitted.
It also seems that polling war/peace/elimination issue by a team against another team without actually having contact with that team seems a bit strage from the "common sense" point of view. It smells bad. Not that it would have changed the outcome of the game however, since I believe that CDZ alone would be able to eliminate us completely without any help from CGN and with some help from C3B. C3B is behaving very quietly and not posting anything in the UN which is not an unusual policy for them.
Well, the rule seems a bit obscure imo. In general, my understanding of it is that if CGN had no contact with CFC, then CDZ should not have informed CGN about our existence or the fact that they have met contact with us. CDZ telling to CGN that they have contact with CFC is actually already violation of the said rule unless one of these civs have Printing Press.
We can file the complaint and see how the admins would react towards it.
The other thing is that first, we don't know whether they have researched Printing Press. Seems extremely unlikely. Second, there has been no contact of CGN with CFC before we have made actual contact in the game, so no rule broken here. On the other hand, what about C3B? It might be CGN had negotiated with them without actually meeting them? How then can we know about it? It could have been that CGN had negotiated with C3B through the intermediacy of CDZ but I'm not sure to which extent it is permitted.
It also seems that polling war/peace/elimination issue by a team against another team without actually having contact with that team seems a bit strage from the "common sense" point of view. It smells bad. Not that it would have changed the outcome of the game however, since I believe that CDZ alone would be able to eliminate us completely without any help from CGN and with some help from C3B. C3B is behaving very quietly and not posting anything in the UN which is not an unusual policy for them.
RegentMan
Deity
Intriguing, akots.
akots
Poet
There might be another issue here. As per miccofl statement, the navy loaded with units sailed to our shore from the CGN homeland actually before we had contact. it seems to me also that the fleet has sailed also before CGN had navigation and hence had the ability to trade maps with CDZ. They did not know exactly where they were sailing unless specifically told by CDZ. It might be not an exact violation of the rule but certainly is against the spirit of the rule.
Emp.Napoleon
SUPER EMP!
I saw we put in a complaint 
akots
Poet
Another point, not sure it is valid or not.
The great armada sailed before Navigation was discovered or after? If they sailed off before Navigation then how did they know where to sail? They did not have the map and ideally did not know where we are located. There are many questions to ask imho.
The great armada sailed before Navigation was discovered or after? If they sailed off before Navigation then how did they know where to sail? They did not have the map and ideally did not know where we are located. There are many questions to ask imho.
Interesting... So, if they were able to acquire this info due to the spy (unless we traded maps?), then that could put the game in jepordy since it would show they somehow had prior knowledge. If the spy affected the game, then it takes on a drastic twist.
Donovan Zoi
The Return
With our enemy just finishing their second wave of assaults on our cities, we are going to get admonished at the UN for:
a. not holding the save to issue a protest again
b. not noticing this 2 turns ago when both teams first landed
I guess it all boils down to when we first gained contact with CGN. Were they out to sea before they met us?
akots, my guess is that they would not have braved the treacherous waters between our continents without having Navigation, so they must have been able to trade maps by that time as well. I would say that the first turn they showed up on our FA screen was the turn they discovered/received Navigation. They then traded maps with CDZ and clicked on one of our coastal cities (that CDZ had scouted out) to make contact.
I still think this is allowable under the rules, even though it circumvents the in-game mechanics somewhat. I mean, one would never be able to plot such an attack against us with the AI without a formal alliance at the outset(and even then it would be poorly executed), thus losing the surprise element.
But aren't all bets off with human players? As long as they got the map before they left (which is a near certainty), I don't see an issue.
a. not holding the save to issue a protest again
b. not noticing this 2 turns ago when both teams first landed
I guess it all boils down to when we first gained contact with CGN. Were they out to sea before they met us?
akots, my guess is that they would not have braved the treacherous waters between our continents without having Navigation, so they must have been able to trade maps by that time as well. I would say that the first turn they showed up on our FA screen was the turn they discovered/received Navigation. They then traded maps with CDZ and clicked on one of our coastal cities (that CDZ had scouted out) to make contact.
I still think this is allowable under the rules, even though it circumvents the in-game mechanics somewhat. I mean, one would never be able to plot such an attack against us with the AI without a formal alliance at the outset(and even then it would be poorly executed), thus losing the surprise element.
But aren't all bets off with human players? As long as they got the map before they left (which is a near certainty), I don't see an issue.
Donovan Zoi
The Return
Also, depending on when CGN gained contact with C3B, it wouldn't take much to figure out that they needed to head toward an area south of C3B, aka southwest. Of course I am basing my estimate of CGN's location solely on the placement of CDZ's capital and the fact that CGN troops came from the east.
So at what point is the spirit of the rule in jeaopardy? Humans can talk, while the AI cannot. A rep from CDZ could merely say "Yeah, we located CFC....they are located due east of our capital" without breaking the rules IMHO. And that would be just enough to get CGN moving until they get the map.
So at what point is the spirit of the rule in jeaopardy? Humans can talk, while the AI cannot. A rep from CDZ could merely say "Yeah, we located CFC....they are located due east of our capital" without breaking the rules IMHO. And that would be just enough to get CGN moving until they get the map.
This surely is interesting. I'm not sure if there is a way to find this out before the game has ended. I do agree that, if CGN set sail to us, before they could have legally in-game have known it, we protest again.
I have asked FortyJ in the past and as soon as 1 of the parties (CDZ/CGN in this case) has PP they can exchange contacts (and they haven't as we didn't have contact) and when 1 has Nav (?) they can sell WM's, maps, city screens etc.
The turn CDZ got Nav is well known; I spotted it instantly. What we need to know is on what turn did CDZ or CGN get PP and when Nav and on what turn did they set sail.
I personally think it is agianst the spirit to plan a war against a specific nation who you have not met in-game yet, but I thought this was nothing we can do about it. Of course, if they obtained information illegally or combined bits of information before it was realistically, that would seem something we might do about it.
I have asked FortyJ in the past and as soon as 1 of the parties (CDZ/CGN in this case) has PP they can exchange contacts (and they haven't as we didn't have contact) and when 1 has Nav (?) they can sell WM's, maps, city screens etc.
The turn CDZ got Nav is well known; I spotted it instantly. What we need to know is on what turn did CDZ or CGN get PP and when Nav and on what turn did they set sail.
I personally think it is agianst the spirit to plan a war against a specific nation who you have not met in-game yet, but I thought this was nothing we can do about it. Of course, if they obtained information illegally or combined bits of information before it was realistically, that would seem something we might do about it.
RegentMan
Deity
How would we go about finding this out?
