Requesting following features

[j_mie6]

all civs can access Advanced Swordsman (also note it comes at advanced Iron Working which requires construction lol!)

so should humans should get a few more options beneath construction (swordsman maybee?) It would require extra work but oh well...

I don't really know about the areas... I think we should stick to civ specific (but Germanic Rebels would be in Germania , It will always be Italian rebels, who ever controls Italy so same with everywhere else)

 

[Baldyr]

I don't really know about the areas... I think we should stick to civ specific (but Germanic Rebels would be in Germania , It will always be Italian rebels, who ever controls Italy so same with everywhere else)

That requires defining map areas. So you basically have to map the coordinates (lower left corner and upper right corner of a rectangular shaped area) for this to work. I believe I described how to find the coordinates in an earlier post...

 

[j_mie6]

like I said I don't think we should do that and just stick to option 2 (rome spawns italian rebels etc)... Sorry

What did we have when a civ dies? say gaul kills rome and gets a revolt who appears? barbs? Because I was thinking we should use the civ specific ones and spawn the Gallic rebels etc


any questions?

EDIT: Actually I am really not sure wether we should use area specific rebels.... The problem is not every area can be defined with rebels, there would be some blind spots

I was thinking of making a couple of events related to rebels:

1. Army of Italian Rebels spawns in southern Italy

2. Army of Hellenic Rebels spawns in northern greece

So we can use coordinates for those (need to think about them more though...

 

[Baldyr]

Hmm... I think we may be misunderstand each-other. But we can figure out the specifics later. (You request and I tell you whether or not it is doable.) Right now I need to get the code ready for you so that you can start testing the stuff I've already done. We can always add more features, cuvs, events and whatnot later.

 

[j_mie6]

ok SO what you need at the moment is for me to contruct a Rebel civ for testing and later on we can work on the civ specific rebels

Italians
Hellenic
Nubian
Numidian
Etc

 

[Baldyr]

Right now the Rebels code will spawn units belonging to the city's original founder - if that player is still alive. Otherwise its always barbarians.

This code is done and you could test it before moving forward. The same goes for the powers and the catapults code for the AI. Those can also be improved upon but how exactly is your job to figure out - by play testing.

Other than that you can have whatever you want as far as rebels are concerned. But if you only want, say Germanic Rebels to appear in Germania, then that map area in Northern Europe needs to be defined with coordinates. The same goes for the others. What is the problem?

 

[j_mie6]

ok,


I don't want the area specific rebels (eg germanic in germania)

I want the ones that come with the civilization The following spoiler will explain everything:

Spoiler :

When a city has never been conquored and has a domestic dispute and it gets a rebellion, then the rebels will depend on the civ:

Romans will ALWAYS have Italian Rebels
Greeks will ALWAYS have Hellenic Rebels
Carthagians will ALWAYS have Numidian Rebels
Egyptians will ALWAYS have Nubian Rebels
Gauls will ALWAYS have Gallic Rebels
Brythons will ALWAYS have Brython Rebels
Picts will ALWAYS have Pictish Rebels
Germanic will ALWays have Germanic Rebels

However IF the city has been conquored and it revolts it will spawn units of the original owner

Rome (Roman) -> conquored by Gaul -> Roman Units spawn

NEW: If the original owner is dead then the rebels will be the Civ Specific ones (see above) not barbs

Civilized Civs (Rome, Greece, Carthage and Egypt) all get a 5% chance of the occupation spawn happening

Barbarian Civc (Gaul, Brittania, Germania and Pictia) all get a 10% change of the occupation spawn happening

All civs have a 10% chance of a Domestic Revolt happening (unless you think this is too high)

That should answer your questions for the moment any others though?

 

[Baldyr]

Ok, I believe that answers all. I now realize that the new rebel civs need to be mapped to their original counterparts. If you keep them in the same exact order as the originals in the WBS (indexing wise) it will be that much easier.

At any rate, those new civs/players need to be entered into the WBS.

Do the unplayable Civs really need a special rebel civ, by the way? Couldn't they just be resurrected as their former selfs?

edit: Another idea: If a rebel civ is alive long enough, wouldn't it turn into its predecessor with time? Like if the Romans are wiped out by Carthage and there is a Roman rebellion, some 100 years later the proper Romans would take the Roman rebel's place. This of course frees up the rebels to revolt against the new roman regime...

edit, again: What about the rebels civs all having the same "rebel" flag? The color would still identify them as a version of the proper civ, while the symbol clearly states that they aren't the original civ.

 

[j_mie6]

I guess you are right IF the the civ dies and an occupational revolt happens the dead civ is revived



I like that idea! So maybee 30 turns? (or less?)

when I enter them into the WBS will they have to be dead from the begining? And when a rebellion happens they are resurected?

Just a quick Conformation Question: Do the AI also get Rebellions:

Say I'm playing as Greece would Rome still get rebellions?


@ the flag: the rebels all have their own flags and all share the same greyish colour...

the ones I have made so far:

Italian: Sword surrounded by 4 little lightning flicks

Hellenic: Thunder Bolt

Germanic: Axe

Nubian: Persian Flag

Brython: Stag (authough I might use this for Brittiania and use the Celtic Cross for them. This is because I really like the Stag)

Gallic: Going to make a Wolf

Numidian: not sure

Pictish: Possibly Bear

 

[Baldyr]

I guess you are right IF the the civ dies and an occupational revolt happens the dead civ is revived

I like that idea! So maybee 30 turns? (or less?)

So there would be a count-down of sorts. It could be random - or just seem random. Whatever you like.

when I enter them into the WBS will they have to be dead from the begining? And when a rebellion happens they are resurected?

I guess you simply don't give them any units/cities in the WBS. A dead player is revived with spawning it a unit. But we may need additional code for granting additional techs, resetting diplomatic status, and such. But the bare minimum would be do spawn some unit, perhaps a Great General to spark off the resurrection?

Otherwise there is a work-around where the code spawn a unit in some unreachable corder of the map, flips the cities, and then kills the unit and covers up the map tiles revealed.

Just a quick Conformation Question: Do the AI also get Rebellions:

Say I'm playing as Greece would Rome still get rebellions?

As the features stands now, yes. It loops the cities of each player in order, one player per turn. If a valid candidate city is found and all conditions pass, then then there is a rebellion. So both the Greek and the Romans get their turn - every ten turns.

What about the rebel civs? They don't have any rebellions of their own, i presume. And also, they have no unique power, right?

 

[j_mie6]

correct, The rebels have no powers or receive rebellions. For the Rebelion does the city flip or do large quantities of units spawn outside it? I would prefer the units spawn outside it. (just enough to take the city maybee)

Great General sounds cool!

Don't forget to look at the last psot regarding flags!


How would we make it so that The rebls are not at war with everybody, but not able to be contacted? (so once you decare war that's it untill that spawn again and diplo-relations are restored?) also the civ the rebellion is pitted against should be instantly at war with the rebels right? So, would the rebels definatly not get pinged out for declaring war?

 

[Baldyr]

correct, The rebels have no powers or receive rebellions. For the Rebelion does the city flip or do large quantities of units spawn outside it? I would prefer the units spawn outside it. (just enough to take the city maybee)

The original Rebels mod-comp just spawned barbarian units outside cities. This is still the basic idea, even if they aren't always barbarian units anymore. (Are the barbarians still in the loop? Only for captured barbarian cities?)

How would we make it so that The rebls are not at war with everybody, but not able to be contacted? (so once you decare war that's it untill that spawn again and diplo-relations are restored?) also the civ the rebellion is pitted against should be instantly at war with the rebels right? So, would the rebels definatly not get pinged out for declaring war?

Yeah, I believe that you can disconnect the rebels from having diplomatic relations. And I can add code that resets diplomatic status on spawn. And you're of course right about the instant war between the city owner and the rebel player.

I'm going to look into how the original civ can be revived. There probably needs to be a counter that starts with the rebel civ taking a city.

 

[j_mie6]

make sure the counter starts with the DEATH of the "to-be-revived" civ

I'm not sure wether barbs should have revolts from occupational OR Domestic disorders

what do you think about my flags?

 

[Baldyr]

make sure the counter starts with the DEATH of the "to-be-revived" civ

How do you propose? I'm afraid I'm not following.

I'm not sure wether barbs should have revolts from occupational OR Domestic disorders

No, for sure.

what do you think about my flags?

This is a design matter and your design looks good to me.

 

[j_mie6]

Ok lets create a Fake senario

Tarrentum (Roman) -> Rebellion -> now under Italian rebels control -> Carthage Invades, Romans defeated -> As soon as the Romans are dead the timer starts and after it finishes Tarrentum is once again roman (unless the rebels no longer control the settlement)


so there should be a way to implement this...

also did you notice how the flag's all represent powerful things? Bears, Wolves, Stags, Swords, Axes, Thunder. These represent the force of the rebellion (also I think the Numidians should have a lion flag!)

 

[Baldyr]

so there should be a way to implement this...

Yeah, I'll just have to ponder this a bit. Perhaps there could just be the possibility for a rebirth event every 50 turns or so? So if one of the rebel civs is alive, but the proper variety is not, then the former is replaced with the latter?

Then there is no need for a counter as such and the resurrection will appear random enough. But I could add a random element to which 50 turns the check is made, so that the dates don't always match in every game. (So that the human player can't except something to happen at say 50 BC, just because civs tend to get revived at that date.)

Will only the cities under rebel control flip? Or all cities founded by the respawning civ? Or all cities in some geographical area (like Italy or Greece)?

What will be the new capital of the respawned civ, by the way? (If the rebels control more than one, that is. They wouldn't always control the old capital of the respawning civ, at least.)

also did you notice how the flag's all represent powerful things? Bears, Wolves, Stags, Swords, Axes, Thunder. These represent the force of the rebellion (also I think the Numidians should have a lion flag!)

Yeah, I guess I picked up on that on an unconscious level.

 

[j_mie6]

they would only take control of the rebel's cities

If possible, They should take the highest pop city as the capital

 

[Baldyr]

I found a CyCity.getGameTurnAcquired() method in the API. If it does what I think it does (returns the game turn on which the city was last captured) then it will be very easy to have a lower margin on how many game turns a city has to be rebel before prompting a resurrection.

The thing, however, is that the rebels might control several cities. Is it enough for one - any - of them to have been captured for enough turns, or just the rebel capital? (On closer thought, it should always be the capital as its usually the first city they get. Unless they move their capital.)

About the largest city - the code could check the original starting location first to see if there is a rebel city there. If not, then move the capital to the city with the highest population.

Culture is also an issue to be looked at...

 

[j_mie6]

I'm sure you can work this all out when you think you have something good get back to me and I'll see what could be improved. In the meantime I will be getting on with animations, and creating civs etc...

 

[Baldyr]

Sure, but all I have time for is making the code and making sure it works. You need to take the time to start testing it all - in real game-play. There is always version 2, you know...