Restarting our Science

[ravensfire]

Fellow citizens,

I am been getting notes from a few of our most esteemed scientists about our research program. Not about the path we take, but our pace, or rather, lack of pace, down that path.

Our scientists complain of being mere librarians. They scour through the scrolls sent to our Great Library, and duplicate the efforts of others. Funding for new research has been shifted to building our infrastructure and developing our military.

At some point in time, however, we will need to change our ways. Let us talk of when that should happen, and what we need to do to prepare for that day.

-- Ravensfire, President of Fanatikos

 

[ravensfire]

Personal thoughts:

I'd like to see us restart Science before Education is researched, perhaps even well before. We're doing well on the science path, and weren't far off when we built the Great Library. I'd like to see us complete this war against Germany, and then build Libraries in all of our cities. We'd then start to research again.

We have ambitious wonder goals - trying to get several popular wonders isn't going to be easy. There's a high chance of triggering a Golden Age soon, which is great for building wonders, except we don't have the technology for any of the wonders we really want. Several of those wonders (Knights Templar and Sistine) are fairly early techs, so we need to be one of the first to research them.

I propose that immediately after the War with Germany, we make sure all our cities have Libraries, and kick the science rate up. We then use the new technologies to trade to trusted partners, and use that to fund our growth.

-- Ravensfire

 

[TimBentley]

I'd suggest waiting until Persia enters the middle ages (they could get monotheism free). After that, we could research the top half (monotheism (if Persia doesn't get it)->chivalry->theology) while the AIs research the bottom half.

 

[Gerikes]

I'd suggest waiting until Persia enters the middle ages (they could get monotheism free). After that, we could research the top half (monotheism->chivalry->theology) while the AIs research the bottom half.

Perhaps. If we do this, I would suggest a very low research rate (since I don't believe we could afford a high one anyway). Then, if Persia decides to trade the tech, or someone else attains it in another way, we can transfer some of that knowledge gained to Chivalry when the GL gives us their secrets Edit: I've never really used the GL much, when the GL discovers a tech you're working on, you can still transfer credits, correct?. After that, I would suggest bumping the science up a bit more. I'd hate to see us up our research only to get a technology another civ has already, because then we'd still be playing catch up anyway (which we could've done with the GL and with a greater profit).

 

[Furiey]

I've never really used the GL much, when the GL discovers a tech you're working on, you can still transfer credits, correct?

No that's not correct. You can not transfer research in Civ III.

You can select other techs in the Science Advisor screen and reselect the one you were researching without losing anything as long as you do not leave the Science Advisor Screen.

If you start researching something, then change to something else after a few turns that research is lost and not transferred to the new tech. This is the same for whatever reason you change your mind.

 

[Cyc]

I've used both methods and don't find much of a difference in the two. With no Science, you get more Gold. Funding Science, you gain the lead, but then you make the Techs cheaper for the enemy. One or two Tribes are sure to stay fairly close behind. I'm not real sure of the advantage in a 5CC game.

 

[TimBentley]

Perhaps. If we do this, I would suggest a very low research rate (since I don't believe we could afford a high one anyway). Then, if Persia decides to trade the tech, or someone else attains it in another way, we can transfer some of that knowledge gained to Chivalry when the GL gives us their secrets Edit: I've never really used the GL much, when the GL discovers a tech you're working on, you can still transfer credits, correct?. After that, I would suggest bumping the science up a bit more. I'd hate to see us up our research only to get a technology another civ has already, because then we'd still be playing catch up anyway (which we could've done with the GL and with a greater profit).

I meant research monotheism only if Persia doesn't get it; otherwise wait until they sell it, then continue to chivalry.

 

[vikingruler]

The war with Germany poses a high risk for a GA, Germay will no doubt attempt to attack our cities thus putting a hoplite in the heat of battle giving us a GA. We do however have a few turns possibly 10, this could give us time, to trade like crazy, and research like crazy getting us another tech. We need to focus on getting wonder techs before War so the GA can be taken advantage of. Remember they do last around 20 turns.

 

[ravensfire]

I commented on this briefly in my Presidential thread, I'll repeat myself here.

Currently, I plan on resetting the science rate back to zero. Our current cities still need some infrastructure, our defenses are low (missing, in the case of Styx) and we have a new city that we need to develop.

Hiring a dedicated Scientist, perhaps from Olympus, would make sense, allowing our science to continue as we boost our cities up, and allow other civs to develop technologically.

At a minimum, I would like to see all of our core cities at size 8, and all of them with Libraries prior to restarting science. We need the size to ensure high amounts of commerce, and the Libraries to maximize our efforts.

Thanks,
-- Ravensfire, President of Fanatikos

 

[admiral-bell]

At a minimum, I would like to see all of our core cities at size 8, and all of them with Libraries prior to restarting science. We need the size to ensure high amounts of commerce, and the Libraries to maximize our efforts.

Thankyou ravensfire. we at the tech department appreciate this

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Unfortunately, it looks like we have spent some of the last turn at 30% research. In order to not waste this half-hearted effort, what are the chances of us researching at 100% science? It will cost us 43gpt (maybe less) to do so, but we would get Monotheism is 6 turns.

The big question is: Can we get this tech from the Great Library in that time?

If not, then it may be a good idea to go for it. Doing so would allow us to build Cathedrals, which in turn would allow our cities to grow even larger.

 

[Strider]

Unfortunately, it looks like we have spent some of the last turn at 30% research. In order to not waste this half-hearted effort, what are the chances of us researching at 100% science? It will cost us 43gpt (maybe less) to do so, but we would get Monotheism is 6 turns.

The big question is: Can we get this tech from the Great Library in that time?

If not, then it may be a good idea to go for it. Doing so would allow us to build Cathedrals, which in turn would allow our cities to grow even larger.

I like this idea, Cathedrals are VERY important for happiness, and are very expensive also. The sooner we can start building them, the sooner we can drop the lux slider to 0%.

It may cost us more, but it'll put us one step ahead. After that, we cut science and shore up our gold reserves.

 

[Furiey]

We were at 30% science throughout the whole of the last session, ie: 6 turns.

90% science will also achieve Monotheism in 6 turns at -43gpt and allow us to keep our cities happy with the 10% lux we are running.
80% = 7 turns at -28gpt
70% = 8 turns at -15gpt
60% = 9 turns at +2gpt (positive)
50% = 11 turns at +15gpt
40% = 13 turns at +31gpt
30% = 18 turns at +47gpt

There is one schedule we need to keep - we can build the Knights Templar in 34 turns (less with a Golden Age). We need to have Chivalry (which requires both Monotheism and Fuedalism) by then. Ideally we want to be the only one with Chivalry at that point so we can build the Knights Templar and no other Civ can. We therefore need to watch the techs that become available and be prepared to make a high speed dash for Chivalry should it become necessary.

Of course if we start our Golden Age then the timescales will shorten and we may wish to boost science to take advantage of our Golden Age anyway.

 

[Gerikes]

Unfortunately, it looks like we have spent some of the last turn at 30% research. In order to not waste this half-hearted effort, what are the chances of us researching at 100% science? It will cost us 43gpt (maybe less) to do so, but we would get Monotheism is 6 turns.

The big question is: Can we get this tech from the Great Library in that time?

If not, then it may be a good idea to go for it. Doing so would allow us to build Cathedrals, which in turn would allow our cities to grow even larger.

I'm assuming that 100% would mean 90% and 10% lux. We'd keep our cities just happy enough and still get it in six turns.

However, this forces us into a situation where we wouldn't be able to fund technology rushes for awhile. With the possible budget about to be hit with the Marketplace rush in the Stables 224 gold, we would be severly depleting our reserves. Perhaps we should let Monotheism take it's course, and either do the same with Feudalism or trade for it, and then 90% science Chivalry to aid our monopoly in building sites for the Knight's Templar.

 

[TimBentley]

The question still is whether Persia will get monotheism free (they probably have been researching currency for at least 6 turns). If they don't, we'll undoubtedly have to research monotheism to get chivalry within 34 turns (surely the AI won't finish feudalism (which should get done any time now), and research engineering, invention, gunpowder, and monotheism in that time). Of course, this is discounting Germany's free tech, as our war has and will continue to put them in a worse economic condition.

 

[ravensfire]

Fellow citizens,

For too long, our Scientists have lived lives of ease and luxury. They've sat back, and simply copied the results of others as other nations discovered new advances.

It's time to put them back to work!

Starting next game session, WE will become the leading research nation! We will discover new technologies, and use them to fund the next round of research!

My plan is to push our research to the maximum, limited only by our funds and the happiness of our people.

-- Ravensfire, President of Fanatikos

 

[Furiey]

We need Chivalry for the Knights Templar, but that is nearly 30 turns away at the moment, more if our people will not stop rioting. Unless we are planning to go to war with knights and Medieval Infantry, why then rush to a tech that could be demanded off us. We won't after all want to sell it. Perhaps if we do start to research we should consider an alternative until we get to the stage where we will need this technology, or keep our tech rate low until that same point.

 

[ravensfire]

Cool - let's discuss the science rate.

To be honest, I'm looking far beyond Chivalry - I'm wanting to start planning for the Sistine Chapel, depending on our research path.

If we go towards Theology after Chivalry, I want to kick research high. We need to get Augean Stables building the Knights Templar, and shift the palace prebuild to a new city. There are multiple civs building Sun Tzu, so other civs are going to start heading to Theology. We need to get there first, and get the Chapel built as quickly as possible.

If we don't go towards Theology, we can slow things down a bit, as the other civs are less likely to head down that path.

-- Ravensfire, President of Fanatikos