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Resurrecting the Aifons - a sea-dwelling civ for FF

Discussion in 'Fall Further' started by [to_xp]Gekko, Oct 13, 2008.

  1. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    of course, I meant lovely... UNTIL THEY COME TO EAT YOU ALIVE IN YOUR SLEEP! RUN! RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE! :lol:
     
  2. PinkPikachu

    PinkPikachu Chieftain

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    Why not make it so they can freely swim on only coasts, and that their cities must be built on coasts with some point of land bordering it. No Ocean cities then, and it takes out the "OMG IMPOSSIBLE TO KILL" clause. Also, it'd give a whole new meaning to amphibious combat.
     
  3. JeffSteel

    JeffSteel Warlord

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    Because then they'd be too much like the Lanun, except that the Aifons would build their cities on the coast. As opposed to the Lanun who build their cities on....... the coast. :crazyeye: Ya dig?
     
  4. BugReportage

    BugReportage Warlord

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    Flesh Golem> :(
    Seahorseys> :devil:

    Oh... Well Lanun could use some competition, right now they rule the seas and there's no one to stop em. 'bout time someone took the fight to them!

    I was thinking Aifons should get the Isolationist trait which basically means they don't get a research bonus for contacting other civs and they also have a harder time getting treaties not because other civs distrust them but because they themselves distrust other civs.
    As for their cultural borders, I don't think they should expand beyond the second level. Lets say it can be allowed that they can have more culture but it won't result in border expansion... Is that possible? That way it won't impede ships too much (the ocean is HUGE).

    OR they could require TWICE as much or their culture takes a -100% hit (I know these aren't the same but meh!), to reach the same level of culture as other civs. That could work.
     
  5. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    i actually thought of the exact same thing at about 1am this morning :p

    on the note of AI absolutely sucking at naval warfare, why dont the Fall Further crew work on improving this? they've improved all the other things that sucked terribly (IMHO) and if Naval war was better then maybe, just maybe, it would be feasable to have the Aifons as an ocean dwelling civ...

    on the note of Aifon being able to decimate invaders due to just being able to sink ships, why not make the strength of a ship carrying units scale according to the type of cargo you carry... naval warfare has nothing to do with the ships (well maybe a little :p), its the CREW, and if you have 4 immortals stacked in a ship, they would be BLOODY HARD to kill (and thus sink).

    on another train of thought, if we made aifons, you could make it so that ships can actually capture aifon cities (so you dont *really* need cargo, just a LOT of ships...)
     
  6. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    other random ideas:

    limit the number of cities the Aifon can build (similar to kuriotates) so they cannot simply colonise the entire ocean.

    add in stronger barbarian sea monsters (or maybe not stronger, but MORE different kinds) as well as oceanic barbarian lairs... to slow the aifons down a bit (i suspect they will be a powerhouse)

    Make the Aifons like Mercurian and infernals, and make them spawn only when the Aifon Isle is explored, maybe make the Aifons the same alignment as whoever ressurectud them and as friends (not permanent allies, just really high diplomatic modifyers). Their capital pops where the isle once was and they start with a few settlers and units. The aifons wouldnt suffer the same useless-AI-effect that the mercurians and infernals have from starting later because there is no one else around to compete with their ocean territory.
     
  7. BugReportage

    BugReportage Warlord

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    Perhaps they should only get one city... They really never lived anywhere but one island...
    And lets say they do come back into creation, what happens to Danalin... I'm sure they'd tried to wake him up, what would this do to the OO religion? It'd be all... not insane... OH NO! O_O
     
  8. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    that could actually be cool, if the Aifon had some way of slowly changing the OO religion, maybe repeatable rituals to awaken danalin could shift the OO alignment closer to neutral (and maybe good) and after certain ammounts of repetitions the OO uus are replaced with DIFFERNT UUs, and the UBs change, so OO is almost like 2 religions in 1, the initial INSANE EVIL one and the second STEADY CALM one.
     
  9. deadliver

    deadliver Loud Mouth Amateur

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    Thanks Gekko, now get back to work or at least look busy, Jesus is coming.
     
  10. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    I like this idea so much that I'd want in on any group of people doing it, except I hardly have time to finish up the Jotnar.

    There are many ways to handle this. And I kind of like the 'living island-city' idea. My take would of course be that the ocean is amazingly huge and can support more life then the land. Limit the race in number of cities, and allow for a hefty health bonus and +4 food per ocean square.

    Insanely huge cities with low hammer production, almost forcing them to use the 'warfare' civic when at war.
     
  11. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    :lol:

    great ideas Psychic_Llamas. I don't like "stealing" mechanics from other civs, but I think the limited number of cities will be needed in order to avoid them colonizing all the water on the map. the idea of having them spawn after the Aifon Isle is explored is really cool as well :goodjob:
     
  12. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    i have a feeling that if the Aifons are codable they will be one of my favourite civs, ill hunt for the aifon isle in every game so i can play as them :D

    im personally not a fan of the living cities, there is no fluff to support that they lived on giant fish, and any mechanic we come up with to do that will play havock with the AI :(
     
  13. Jabie

    Jabie Wanted in Monte Carlo...

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    You're right about the AI and the entire project would definitely need a recode of quite a bit of the code, but it does tie in with one of the central philosophies of FfH - that every race should be different to play. The strategy needed to win as, say, the Amurites, is vastly different from that of the Doviello. A race with mobile cities that need to keep an eye out for watchful eye for large fleets would definitely need a completely different strategy to win. (Say can I hear Battlestar Galactica in the background...)

    The inability to produce cities inland limits any capacity to capture cities wheras the Egg Production mechanism would limit the number of Cities they can have based on time, as opposed to the hard coded limit of the Kuriotates.
     
  14. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    Well. Even if we ignore the 'giant-fish' idea and play with other solutions, I think it is a worthy project.

    A lot could be done with Python I think, since there are triggers on everything.

    What is so scary about a civ whom could have a few cities (or perhaps just one) that cannot be directly invaded/destroyed/taken? If you dominate the rest of the map you'd easily win through any other mean.

    And as mentioned, one can introduce new spells for arcane units with Death, Entropy or Chaos that could lower the citysize by one. Send a bunch of adepts out with a small fleet and purge those pesky fishes.
     
  15. PapaMonkey

    PapaMonkey Warlord

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    Neat idea. One thought to consider is that they'd lack any land resources that they had not traded for. To counter this, many unique deep-ocean resources could be created that they could trade with.
     
  16. thomas.berubeg

    thomas.berubeg Wandering the World

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    and how about some die hard hold out who can perform rituals to split the two religions, they keeping drowns and the like, while the other continues to grow more pure.
     
  17. BugReportage

    BugReportage Warlord

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    As I pointed out in the Lore thread for this, I don't think Danalin is going to be "good" when he wakes up and finds Hastur there saying dumb things to him and that someone hid his people away... I'd rather think he's going to just rage upon creation. :p
     
  18. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    which sounds good, considering how I wanted to give them a ritual to bring Danalin to creation after they have awakened him with their worldspell. since you're bringing him to the party, he might as well be angry, he'll be more useful I guess :lol:
     
  19. Psychic_Llamas

    Psychic_Llamas Wizard in the Making

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    i love the idea of opting for tha Aifon to try to pascify Danalin or fuel his rage. after all if i had been trapped by agares for Ages id be pretty damn pissed off, i suspect the Aifon should be Nutral with 2 very different paths, which they can be followed via different ritual chains. on the one side it causes chaos, by creating areas of raging seas and by raising the sea level, chaging the worlds climate (ie more rain and thus more jungle and less desert) the other path could be an attempt to calm Danalin, which would change the OO religion with every ritual cast. and thus would give the Aifon a very interesting religious victory condition. OO could shift closer to good and slowly loose the insaity and develop a more calm, growth based theme, where followers get more benefits from coast and ocean tiles (extra food and trade routes?), UUs could be diplomats that have water walking, can be used en mass to restor peace via diplomacy/ have good defence. maybe add a synergy with rivers and jungle (very wet climates) could make any enemy unit on coast or ocean in good OO boarders either take damage or lose movement, maybe reveal all oceans to all Good OO follower (oceans not explored normally would revert to black FoW if religion is switced) (this would also reveal the location of the Aifons to all OO civs)......... ideas dwindling...............sleep calling...........
     
  20. kenken244

    kenken244 Grammar Nazi

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    The problem with Danalin going on a rampage is that he is the god of serenity. Gods really don't have free will by human standards so danalin is completely incapable of being angry. If he could get angry he probably would have when the Aifons were destroyed.
     

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