RevolutionDCM for BTS

[frekk]

For one we do not know if this is caused by the inclusion of WoC (for the events there seems to be some indication as far as I understand this thread, the continuous firing is as of now unanalysed to my knowledge though, let alone the trade routes).

I agree with your disagreement.

I have not experienced and am not able to reproduce continuous firing of events or any bug involving overseas trade.

The dependancy issue with some events is the single problem that I can find related to the inclusion of WoC, and the only one that seems to be consistently reported. I am confident glider and jdog are going to fix it very soon.

 

[OrionVeteran]

Glider,

NerverMind answered my request and he has updated the Mountains mod to BTS 3.19 format. Can you add the SDK from the updated mountains mod into your next release of RevDCM?

See Link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8238435#post8238435

Respectfully,

Orion Veteran

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Glider,

NerverMind answered my request and he has updated the Mountains mod to BTS 3.19 format. Can you add the SDK from the updated mountains mod into your next release of RevDCM?

See Link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8238435#post8238435

Respectfully,

Orion Veteran

Personally, I would not want this in. If it is an option, or when mts become passible can be chosen, then I remove my objection. I think this mod is one of those that looks great at first glance but has the potential of ruining the game. Especially in the early eras.

 

[mamba]

I thought all of the XML was extracted and was included in the DCM module I provided. What XML is missing?

I only took a quick look, but at least all text files were missing, so to merge it with another mod, you would need to include those from the core.

 

[Duuk]

I'm also against peaks being workable/passable.

Of course, I was opposed to WOC too, and everybody shouted me down.

 

[keldath]

hi,
flider , thanks alot for the fix!


Dancing Hoskuld, hi,

im using mountains in my mods, with revdcm 2.5,

if you dont like it, it can be turned off,

so i vote also to get this small modcomp in

 

[OrionVeteran]

Dancing Hoskuld, hi, im using mountains in my mods, with revdcm 2.5, if you dont like it, it can be turned off, so i vote also to get this small modcomp in

I'm in agreement to have an option for mountains. This way everyone can play the game the way they desire. Choice is always a good thing for this game.

I'd like to request (very nicely) that you post the DLL, as I'd like to start using it my new mod.

Respectfully,

Orion Veteran

 

[johny smith]

I am awaiting the update to the WoC Full to look at what is done. glider and jdog are not the only WoC coders. It is being worked on now. So was waiting for a final fix for events. And again it should be able to go back to pre-WoC events. But it is a general trend yes here to blame WoC when anything goes wrong.

Anyway from the very start I wanted more modular things and less core options that can be turned on and off. I would like to see some version of Inquisition put into the SDK. OrionVeteran seems to have more options, but how it would be placed in the SDK I am not sure. Of course turned on and off features if his was done in the SDK. I suggested as well but do not think there is much interest in faichele super spies work. It has 7 mission, great spy AI(BtS uses the merchant), great spy can do spy missions, and there is xml added that gives better control over them I believe.

Anyway I am heavy into modding Rapture now. Really do not want to come here to have just defend the WoC idea when the people shouting against it never got the point of it. It will always be completely worthless if you are not using it, and extremely useful if you are.

I had thought about just converting Legends of Revolution into a module to show the point. It would be so much smaller and easier to test. I just do not have the time to come on this thread and fight about it.

 

[keldath]

OrionVeteran,

hey,

my dll include some more stuff, but you can use it,

its availble with my mod - along with the sdk - use my sig as a link,
its just 40 mb of dl...

if you want the dll, ill only have time tomorrow , i hope..

johny - im eager to see modular spies from woc in revdcm !!!

 

[kettyo]

There supposed to be independently controllable. That aspect was tested along time ago now. How'd you go with it?

By me the settings in the in-game menu does not have any effect while changing the values in the globaldefinesalt.xml file has.
Not a big problem just strange.

 

[johny smith]

Well it is jodg's call on AI I think. Better BTS AI could use some of both I think as well. Less python the faster it goes, and 2 things that I think everyone could use. But yes I know to not change the game to much, but if configurable might work. Anyway just my thoughts anyway.

 

[glider1]

@OrionVet and Keldath
Yeah I get your point about mountain mod being small. If it is just one "tick" in the options screen and a little code, don't see a problem. However it won't happen until a few issues settle down in RevDCM. One step at a time.

Yeah I strongly encourage people who want full modularity to go down the revdcm woc lite path. The two projects fit together pretty well and johny is an excellent modder. I'll be really keen to here about news on the woc full update as well.

Cheers.

 

[cripp7]

Yeah I strongly encourage people who want full modularity to go down the revdcm woc lite path. The two projects fit together pretty well and johny is an excellent modder. I'll be really keen to here about news on the woc full update as well.

Cheers.

Where's the link?

 

[frekk]

Rather than new features, I'd just like to see the bugs fixed.

And when it's time to add new features, I'd say things like passable mountains should be low on the list of priorities (unless it's a very quick and easy task). I'd rather see the inclusion of things like the New Sentry Actions modcomp, which is more of a fix than a mod (doesn't add any new features/abilities to the game, just some new ways of controlling units).

 

[mamba]

We haven't had a version of RevDCM that was free of major bugs, like broken events, since WoC was introduced. That's very frustrating. Originally I resisted WoC, because I knew it was broken, and would bug out RevDCM, and I was right.

One of main reasons I want and need an old style stable RevDCM version is that I'm going to rebuild LoR from scratch pretty much. Pair it down to a state with no ethnic art, and then begin to reinclude the cleaved art piece by piece to ensure total stability. All this work is going to be for naught, if the core is still bugged out though... which is caused by WoC, that's my issue. I don't know how to be more clear.

You do not have to be any more clear, we just disagree

For most of your problems we do not yet know whether they are not tied to WoC. Hence saying that RevDCM has been broken ever since WoC got included falsly implies that these problems are due to the inclusion of WoC. Maybe they also stem from the 3.19 upgrade, which happened at about the same time.
Actually, maybe they are due to your mod, not RevDCM or WoC, as most of your bugs apparently happen in your mod only, not RevDCM. At the very least, try to confirm them in RevDCM before putting the blame on it (or WoC).

As to you knowing WoC was broken, I have no idea what you knew versus what you believed, but the full WoC has a lot more code than WoC Lite which got merged here and chances are most of the errors are in the part which was left out.

I still think the inclusion was the right thing to do, even if this means a phase of less stability - and I believe you just do not really understand its concept as you claim it adds nothing (but trouble).

 

[phungus420]

The events is definatly WoC casued, and these cascade into other issues (such as running slave revolts that can destroy the AI). The other parts of WoC seem to work, so I don't care if it's cut or not. If events get fixed, then WoC can exist peacefully in RevDCM for all I care, if it doesn't mess things up I wol't notice it, and I suppose it can also help other modders with the WoC functionality. My issue though is that currently events being broken is causing major problems, so I'd rather just see events (and all other interdependency issues) removed from WoC until these are stabilized, if WoC is so interctonected that removing interdependies can only be accomplished by cutting WoC out completely then I'm all for that as well. If not, then keep the parts that work, but remove the parts that don't. I just want a stable core, that's my issue. It's not about pro WoCiness, or anti WoCiness, it's about stability and bugs.

 

[frekk]

Well, I haven't seen running slave revolts that go on forever. I have seen running slave revolts that go on for quite a few turns ... but that's natural. Have a look at that civ's gold and other factors, and you'll see why it happens. This happens frequently to civs that get reduced to a single city, or a handful of widely scattered cities - if the revolt happens in the one city they are making money on, and they have nothing in the treasury when it does, then it will continue until they switch civics. Human players don't notice this because we usually quit long before being in such a hopeless situation in the game, but technically, if you were reduced to a similar level, it could happen to a human player too.

Also, I've never seen it go on forever. With a civ that is tiny but not completely broken, it can go on for half a dozen or more turns. Even with a civ that is utterly shattered (a single size 1 city in the arctic, in one instance) it does seem to eventually end.

Also, this event isn't one of the ones that's broken. All the choices work fine for the human; the dependancy bug only afflicts events which feature a % chance of firing some other event, which doesn't include the slave revolt. The AI seems to not choose choice #1 (lose 2 population), preferring choice 2 (lose 1 pop and a bit of gold) or choice 3 (revolt continues). This has to do with the AI decision making, not dependancies. If there's something that was included which is causing a different behaviour in the AI, it's probably the Better AI, not WoC.

 

[mamba]

The events is definatly WoC casued, and these cascade into other issues (such as running slave revolts that can destroy the AI). The other parts of WoC seem to work, so I don't care if it's cut or not. If events get fixed, then WoC can exist peacefully in RevDCM for all I care, if it doesn't mess things up I wol't notice it, and I suppose it can also help other modders with the WoC functionality. My issue though is that currently events being broken is causing major problems, so I'd rather just see events (and all other interdependency issues) removed from WoC until these are stabilized, if WoC is so interctonected that removing interdependies can only be accomplished by cutting WoC out completely then I'm all for that as well. If not, then keep the parts that work, but remove the parts that don't. I just want a stable core, that's my issue. It's not about pro WoCiness, or anti WoCiness, it's about stability and bugs.

Cutting things out will not get them fixed, fixing them will

Everyone wants a stable release, but the way to get there is by fixing bugs, not by removing functionality.

 

[phungus420]

Cutting things out will not get them fixed, fixing them will

Removing interdependencies from WoC and allowing regular BtS code to handle it will fix interdependencies.

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining please.

 

[mamba]

Removing interdependencies from WoC and allowing regular BtS code to handle it will fix interdependencies.

... and remove WoC flexibility, so at one point in time you would have to come back and fix it for good.

Yes, removing it would make the bug disappear, but if you always remove what is buggy instead of actually fixing it, there would be little left. That is why said removing it does not fix it.