Rexing?

[qazq2]

I recently moved to Immortal; while I am competing, I have not won a game yet. I know the two things holding me back are the uber-critical early game, and diplomacy. I know how to manage diplomacy (I just suck at it) but I cannot Rex. I am lucky to get out four cities (five if you count my capital). Unfortunately, either civ or my computer won't let me download the latest patch so I am unable to provide saves. Are there any general tips that can help?

I generally follow this build order: Worker, warrior, settler (if not about to grow) warrior, settler, warrior, settler, worker, worker etc.
Tech path depends but usually means me getting the early food techs and bronze working (annoyingly I have not had any copper within a hundred miles in my 5 immortal games). Pottery and writing are high priority as well, but I get bronze working before them.

In the past (noble-emperor) I have relied on early rushes to net me critical new cities, however I seem to be the victim of my own tactics more often than not (except I usually survive), but my early game is crippled by the rush. Since I have not had any resources I was forced to whip out a lot of weak units which were killed soon. After the war I am able to survive until the renaissance (even getting liberalism most of the time), but with 4-5 cities I am unable to produce the army I need and the science to continue the campaign. I usually try to cuir rush anyways (if I have horses, which I did not have in 2 of the games) as a last ditch effort, but it is doomed to failure.

 

[qazq2]

In case it matters I have CIV complete edition and play BTS 3.13 I believe. I have tried to download the latest patch (3.19?) multiple times but the game will not let me. I also have a computer that I will have to retire soon. The computer is slow, glitchy, and worn out but works for my purposes most of the time (although it often fails in downloads).

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Best way to learn is to post a saved game without mods and ask for help. AI advantages often mean that you won't get a whole lot of cities to start. I haven't mastered Immortal, but I can offer a few tips that I've learned since starting immortal:

1) Worker stealing is great. You can slow down your neighbors expansion and speed up yours. Most AI's are not very brave and are much less likely to attack your warrior with archers than most realize. Woodsman warriors are great on a forested hill near their capital.

2) Expanding to five cities isn't all that bad. Make sure you use those five cities to prepare for an early war. Your five cities can become ten.
- a) Whip often, especially with a granary.
- b) An early Library and Math bulb (for chopping) can be very effective if you have a lot of forests.

 

[qazq2]

Thanks, I wish I could post a save but I cannot. I had given up on the early rush because of the AI production bonuses (once bitten twice shy, especially considering on other difficulties I rarely ever lost a war.) I tried worker stealing a few times but the 20 or so turns I saved was regressed when qin brought his SoD before I was ready - though that was my own stupidity of not whipping more chariots (no copper) Thanks again, I was scared of trying to worker steal again.

 

[s.bernbaum]

The game won't let you download the 3.19 patch because the site that the ingame patcher tries to access no longer exists. You can download the patch from the Patch and Update page of the forums. Access it from the Civ 4 drop down menu at the top of every page. Once you download the patch, unpack it and run it. That should patch your game to 3.19. You have to have the vanilla version installed to run the patch but if you let CIV Complete install everything that should be no problem. BTW, this patch is for disc based installations. If you downloaded your CIV Complete from one of the online sites, you need to download the patch from the same source and install that one instead.

 

[Ghpstage]

Are you trying to download the patch via the ingame autopatcher? If so it doesn't work, at least for most people. If this is the case then heres a link to the file on these forums.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Are you not able to post a save because of your version? Ghpstage's link should help.

You can win some games if you don't steal workers, or avoid early wars. They are just tools that give you advantages in certain games. If you want to Rex faster than the AI, you could always play Joao. He can build workers and settlers very fast. In the long run, it would be better start some games just to practice early wars just to get better at them.

If you want some inspiration, watch this YouTube video posted by the forum member AbsoluteZero. In this video he shows how to do a Horse Archer rush. If it works against a strong Kublai Khan on Deity, it will work against any AI on Immortal.

 

[qazq2]

Thank you to everyone who gave me the patch, I will check it out and try to download it. Especially thanks to Lincoln of Rome who answered my question despite not having a save, and for the link by AZ.

I think part of my high expectations of rexing came from a mansa musa playthrough of AZ's, where he peacefully settles 8-9 cities on Deity. I thought if AZ can do 9 it on Deity surely I can do 6-7 on Immortal; turns out I am not AZ lol. I am checking out the link now.

 

[ThatOne]

Depends on the map, but I would often make 3-4 wars after worker, while managing tiles to maximize food, not using anything but 0-1 hammer tiles. Grow to size 5 asap, then if you have enough forests make 2nd worker, then start many settlers. On quick speed with chopping I can be throwing out settlers every 3-4 turns, and have one worker go to work the new city food, while other keeps chopping. I would get if you have monarch/pottery I can usually keep my gnp up with this cap making settlers nonstop to 10-15 cities. If you want to rex you need to fast to size 5 to keep the time on settler to a minimum, and if you have food and floods this process goes very fast.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

This may not be the issue, but remember that with BTS 3.13 you need to update to 3.17 first, and only then try updating to 3.19.

 

[Culture Bomb]

Rexing is not always a good idea on immortal as maintenance costs increase much more quickly.

How far are you building your cities from the capital? It may be a good idea to build them closer, then you get more cities in a smaller area which reduces distance-to-capital maintenance costs.

 

[cseanny]

Fast expansion should focus on max production via tiles, whips, and chopping and work on really stretching things out horizontally as hard as possible. No need for large cities or vertical growth anytime soon. This means beelining for Alpha and Currency (no rush for Monarch until trade..huge mistake) and doing your best to keep your slider at a very low level. I prefer to keep it at zero after I've learned Writing and use scientist to fuel researh to Alpha while working luxuries or a few cottages to pay for maintenance.

I'ts common for me to be bringing in negative gold per turn while at zero slider before my push to Currency. Once again, stayig small and the whip help keep civic and maintenance cost low......be brutal and liberal with the whip. I'ts the absolute quickest way. Good tile sharing for your Capial makes a huge difference (allows Capital to work stronger tiles/whip more) once you finally get Monarchy and begin working some nice commerce tiles.

 

[Kallikrates]

Do you stop after 5 cities because all space is taken by the AI or because your research breaks down? If the former why not try a different map or maybe handpick opponents that you do not get the REXxers. If the latter you have to improve your economy.

 

[cseanny]

@ OP

Big Piggy back at updating to BTS 3.19. It's not only the best CIV IV game, it's by far the best CIV game out. Nothing even comes close. Anyone saying something else should be banned and blocked (because they're clueless) lol. Seriously, update man!

 

[Robert FIN]

My problem is that I don't know how to get Alpha and/or Currency to ease your REXing. So I don't know what is the optimal # of cities when going for Alpha. I always leave behind in that part of game because it takes like 30t to get Alpha (on Monarch). Help!

 

[Kallikrates]

Up to Emperor you usually have to research alphabet yourself (most of the time currency as well), unless you have a fast techer AND easy trader close by (like Mansa, I guess). If you do not plan an early war you can research alpha very soon. I guess, you can do it straight away after writing. 30 turns (what speed?) sounds too long on normal.
It all depends. On traits like ORG or FIN and of course on early gold or gems.

 

[Robert FIN]

Up to Emperor you usually have to research alphabet yourself (most of the time currency as well), unless you have a fast techer AND easy trader close by (like Mansa, I guess). If you do not plan an early war you can research alpha very soon. I guess, you can do it straight away after writing. 30 turns (what speed?) sounds too long on normal.
It all depends. On traits like ORG or FIN and of course on early gold or gems.

Normal speed but 30 wasn't the exact number, more like fairly over 20. Do you have more tips than working super tiles.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

He's playing Immortal, so at this level I usually tech Aesthetics, put a few turns into Alpha, and trade for it. Most AI's will usually have Alpha before I can tech it, unless I have a heavy commerce start. Both Alpha and Currency are important to have, so you can build wealth or research and continue to learn new technologies, even if your slider is running on empty.

Normal speed but 30 wasn't the exact number, more like fairly over 20. Do you have more tips than working super tiles.

Good commerce tiles are Gold, Silver, Gems, Furs, riverside cottages, oasis, and even sea and lake tiles. Just make sure that you improve them, if improvable, and manually choose to work them if the the game removes them on the city screen. You can also build a library and work some science specialists.

 

[Kallikrates]

Sorry, I don't exactly remember how I usually do it. Of course it helps to set up a library and one or two scientist as soon as possible or start building riverside cottages.
But it cannot be denied that having one or even two or more gold or gems in your capital or second city is a huge advantage in early research.
Certainly, on Emperor the suggested strategy to go for Aesthetics and hope that an AI will research Alpha never worked for me (and I usually did not try after one or two failures). I also go for currency very early, often before stuff like metal casting. Probably not a good idea, but forges are so damn expensive, so you need a certain size to build/whip them whereas an extra trade route will always help, even for 1 pop cities.
My usual path is worker techs, pottery, writing, oracle techs, if I try for this one, otherwise alphabet, or alphabet after oracling CoL (or maybe MC, but I like to found Confucianism). Then I trade for IW and other stuff the AI might have.
Other exception would be an early try for the Lighthouse or the Pyramids, in this case sailing and masonry before alpha.
But I don't really see the connection to early expansion. The earlier you research alpha, the higher can you put the science slider, because 3 cities are cheaper in maintenance.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

Aesthetics is a more reliable path on Immortal than Emporer. I'll usally research Alpha on Emperor, unless Mansa or someone like that is around. Also, even choosing to mine a riverside mine rather than a non-riverside mine makes some difference.