RFC Classical World

[Samani]

I will try rev.224. Also I did an other game with Kalinka and this time, there was only two magadian elephants... The problem might come from me, my computer bug sometimes... Otherwise, i have an idea about a Kalinka UP. As the kingdom was known for the maritime commerce it had with Birmania, maybe a 1gold bonus on coastal tiles could be a good bonus. It could be call the power of maritime exchange.

Also I was thinking that the add of a Saka Kingdom of Seistan as a playable civ. could be a good think.
Their capital could be Alexandreia Arachosia, the leaders could be Spasilirès (because Maues was the leader of the first Sakas hord, which was defeated by Parthians), and UHV likes control Taxila or Hindustan.

 

[srpt]

I agree the Sakas settled down and lasted long enough to warrant a playable civ. on the other hand they would play so much like the Kushans.

good idea for the Kalinka UP

 

[Sorindafabico]

here it is:

Spoiler :

		## EMPIRE ##
		print "EMPIRE"
		# balance of core and empire populations, mitigated by courthouses and civics
		
		iEmpireRating = 0
		bExiled = True
		for regionID in utils.getCoreRegions(iCiv):
			if (utils.checkRegionOwnedCity(iPlayer, regionID)): 
				bExiled = False
			if not (utils.checkRegionControl(iPlayer, regionID)):
				iEmpireRating -= 3
				print "core province not controlled"
		if bExiled:
			print "Exiled"
			if utils.getYear() > tFall[iCiv]:
				self.terminalCrisis(iPlayer, iCiv, pPlayer, pTeam)
			else:
				iEmpireRating -= 6
				
		iCorePop = 0
		iEmpirePop = 0
		for pLoopCity in apCityList:
			if not pLoopCity.isNone(): 
				if pLoopCity.GetCy().isCapital():
					iCorePop += pLoopCity.getPopulation() * 3
				else:
					regionID = gc.getMap().plot(pLoopCity.GetCy().getX(),pLoopCity.GetCy().getY()).getRegionID()
					if regionID in utils.getCoreRegions(iCiv) or regionID in utils.getSpecialRegions(iCiv): 
						iCorePop += pLoopCity.getPopulation() * 2
					else: regionID in utils.getNormalRegions(iCiv):
						iFactor = 1
						if not ((iCivicGovernment == iTheocracyCivic) and (pLoopCity.GetCy().isHasReligion(iStateReligion))):
							if iCivicGovernment != iEmpireCivic: iFactor += 1
						if not (iCivicLegal == iBureaucracyCivic):
							iFactor += 1
						if not (pLoopCity.GetCy().getNumRealBuilding(iCourthouse)): 
							iFactor += 1
						if not regionID in utils.getNormalRegions(iCiv):
							iFactor += 1
						iEmpirePop += pLoopCity.getPopulation() * iFactor
			
		print ("iCorePop=", iCorePop, "iEmpirePop=", iEmpirePop)
		
		if iCorePop > iEmpirePop *2: iEmpireRating += 2
		elif iCorePop > iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating += 1
		elif iCorePop *5 < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 5
		elif iCorePop *4 < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 4
		elif iCorePop *3 < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 3
		elif iCorePop *2 < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 2
		elif iCorePop < iEmpirePop: iEmpireRating -= 1
				
		if (pPlayer.getNumCities()) * 2 < (sd.getNumCities(iPlayer)): 
			iEmpireRating -= 3
			print "high city losses"
		elif (pPlayer.getNumCities()) * 3 < (sd.getNumCities(iPlayer)) * 2: 
			iEmpireRating -= 2
			print "med city losses"
		elif pPlayer.getNumCities() < sd.getNumCities(iPlayer): 
			iEmpireRating -= 1
			print "some losses"
		
		print ("iEmpireRating=", iEmpireRating)

in plain english:

multiply capital population by 3
multiply each core city population by 2
add them up to get your core population

for each periphery city by "x"
"x" starts as 1 and goes up by 1 for:
NOT having a courthouse
NOT being in Empire or Theocracy (with state religion in the city) civic
NOT being in your border provinces
add them up to get your periphery population

the city losses part compares the number of cities you have now to the maximum number you ever had. you get a -1 to -3 based on how many cities you've lost.

srpt, could you summarize how the stability system works for civics too?

 

[Sitalkas]

After some testing in my Tocharian game, I found out which civics blend well together (+4 rating). I hope this will help you.

Monarchy + Tyranny + Slavery + Patronage + Dynastic Cult

Empire + Bureaucracy + Slavery + Agrarianism + (Dynastic Cult OR Free Religion).


I used the 1st combo throughout the game, when I controlled only cities in my core and one in a historical province, until the very end game that I was ready to build an empire. Then I switched to empire combo and I started conquering !

 

[Sorindafabico]

The best late game combo I used was Empire + Bureaucracy + Wage Labor + Bulk Trade + Free Religion, I don't remember the rating.

I only use Tyranny if my cities are too unhappy by resource shotage and I don't have state religion. For huge empires, vassalage is best for gold, but i'm unsure about stability.

Anyway, thanks!

 

[srpt]

new regular download up

here is the civics calculation:

Spoiler :

		if iCivicGovernment == iMonarchyCivic:
			if iCivicLegal == iBarbarismCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "monarchy", "barbarism")
			if iCivicLegal in [iVassalageCivic, iReligiousLawCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "monarchy", "vassalage, or religious law")
			if iCivicLabor == iSerfdomCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "monarchy", "serfdom")
			if iCivicLabor == iWageLaborCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "monarchy", "wage labor")
			if iCivicEconomy == iPatronageCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "monarchy", "patronage")
			if iCivicReligion in [iDynasticCultCivic, iStateReligionCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "monarchy", "dynastic cult or state religion")
			
		if iCivicGovernment == iOligarchyCivic:
			if iCivicLegal in [iBarbarismCivic, iTyrannyCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "oligrachy", "barbarism or tyranny")
			if iCivicLegal == iBureaucracyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "oligrachy", "bureaucracy")
			if iCivicLabor == iTribalismCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "oligrachy", "tribalism")
			if iCivicReligion in [iDynasticCultCivic, iMilitancyCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "oligrachy", "dynastic cult or militancy")
			if iCivicEconomy in [iAgrarianismCivic, iPatronageCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "oligrachy", "agrarianism or patronage")
			
		if iCivicGovernment == iEmpireCivic:
			if iCivicLegal == iBureaucracyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "empire", "bureaucracy")
			if iCivicLegal in [iBarbarismCivic, iTyrannyCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "empire", "tyranny")
			if iCivicLabor == iTribalismCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "empire", "tribalism")
			if iCivicEconomy == iDecentralizationCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "empire", "decentralization")
			if iCivicEconomy == iAgrarianismCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "empire", "agrarianism")
			
		if iCivicLegal == iBarbarismCivic:
			if iCivicLabor == iWageLaborCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "barbarism", "wage labor")
			if iCivicEconomy == iTradeEconomyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "barbarism", "trade economy")
			
		if iCivicLegal == iTyrannyCivic:
			if iCivicLabor in [iCasteSystemCivic, iWageLaborCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "tyranny", "caste system or wage labor")
			if iCivicEconomy == iTradeEconomyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "tyranny", "trade economy")
			if iCivicReligion == iDynasticCultCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "tyranny", "dynastic cult")
			if iCivicReligion in [iStateReligionCivic, iMilitancyCivic, iSyncretismCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "tyranny", "state religion, militancy or syncretism")
			
		if iCivicLegal == iVassalageCivic:
			if iCivicLabor in [iCasteSystemCivic, iSerfdomCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "vassalge", "caste system or serfdom")
			if iCivicLabor == iWageLaborCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "vassalge", "wage labor")
			if iCivicEconomy == iTradeEconomyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "vassalge", "trade economy")
			if iCivicEconomy == iPatronageCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "vassalge", "patronage")
			
		if iCivicLegal == iReligiousLawCivic:
			if iCivicLabor in [iCasteSystemCivic, iSerfdomCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "religious law", "caste system or serfdom")
			if iCivicLabor == iWageLaborCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "religious law", "wage labor")
			if iCivicEconomy in [iTradeEconomyCivic, iMilitaryEconomyCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "religious law", "trade economy or military economy")
			if iCivicReligion in [iPaganismCivic, iDynasticCultCivic, iSyncretismCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "religious law", "paganism, dynastic cult or syncretism")
			
		if iCivicLegal == iBureaucracyCivic:
			if iCivicLabor in [iTribalismCivic, iCasteSystemCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "bureaucracy", "tribalism or caste system")
			if iCivicLabor == iSlaveryCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "bureaucracy", "slavery")
			if iCivicEconomy == iDecentralizationCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "bureaucracy", "decentralization")
			
		if iCivicLabor == iTribalismCivic:
			if iCivicEconomy == iDecentralizationCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "tribalism", "decentralization")
			if iCivicEconomy in [iTradeEconomyCivic, iMilitaryEconomyCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "tribalism", "trade economy or military economy")
			if iCivicReligion == iDynasticCultCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "tribalism", "dynastic cult")
			
		if iCivicLabor == iSlaveryCivic:
			if iCivicEconomy == iAgrarianismCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "slavery", "agrarianism")
			
		if iCivicLabor == iCasteSystemCivic:
			if iCivicEconomy == iAgrarianismCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "caste system", "agrarianism")
			if iCivicEconomy == iTradeEconomyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "caste system", "trade economy")
			if iCivicReligion in [iDynasticCultCivic, iSyncretismCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "caste system", "dynastic cult or syncretism")
			
		if iCivicLabor == iSerfdomCivic:
			if iCivicEconomy == iAgrarianismCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "serfdom", "agrarianism")
			if iCivicEconomy == iTradeEconomyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "serfdom", "trade economy")
			if iCivicReligion == iStateReligionCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "serfdom", "state religion")
			
		if iCivicLabor == iWageLaborCivic:
			if iCivicEconomy in [iDecentralizationCivic, iAgrarianismCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "wage labor", "decentralization or agrarianism")
			if iCivicEconomy == iTradeEconomyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating += 1
				#print ("good combo", "wage labor", "trade economy")
			if iCivicReligion == iMilitancyCivic: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "wage labor", "militancy")
			
		if iCivicEconomy == iTradeEconomyCivic:
			if iCivicReligion in [iDynasticCultCivic, iMilitancyCivic]: 
				iCivicsRating -= 1
				#print ("bad combo", "trade economy", "dynastic cult or militancy")
			
		# Civics + State Religion
			
		if iCivicLabor == iCasteSystemCivic and iStateReligion != iHinduism: 
			iCivicsRating -= 1
			#print "caste wo hindu"
		
		if iCivicLabor == iSlaveryCivic and iStateReligion == iChristianity: 
			iCivicsRating -= 1
			#print "christian slaves"

 

[Sorindafabico]

Thank you (2x)!

 

[Crossphazer]

Xiongnu spawning essentially on top of Tocharian cities makes the Tocharian game... difficult, if the Xiongnu get lucky.

 

[Sitalkas]

Also, Xiongnu seem to be able to build horse units without actually controlling a horse resource!

 

[Sorindafabico]

What is "Invasion Project"???

 

[Tigranes]

sprt, what is the final resolution on Judean UHVs? Ideally they are suppose to win without expanding much. And proselytizing was never the goal in Judaism. Judaism should spread naturally along with trade roads, like in vanila BTS. Jewish Missioner should act as religious prosecutor, not missionary.

In addition to temple of Solomon, I suggest First and Second Religious goals. First Religious Goal could be -- Ensure that every civ which has city with Judaism does not run civics that oppresses Jews by the time Christianity is founded (so no "we desire religious freedom" angry faces in Roman Rome if it has Judaism). Second Religious goal would be controlling Holy Christian and Muslim cities. Meaning staying in charge of Monotheism either by discovering techs by themselves, or defeating owners of founders of other Monotheistic "sects".

And as a personal request -- please edit Jewish DoM text. The original pronunciation of YHWH was lost many centuries ago, because name was so sacred, but the available evidence indicates that it was in all likelihood Yahweh, not Jahveh. No source is using Jahveh, KJV is using Jehovah, but YHWH can be the most cool way to represent Jewish flavor in DoM text.

 

[AtlantaMarty]

Can you please make the Huns playable?

 

[srpt]

Also, Xiongnu seem to be able to build horse units without actually controlling a horse resource!

all the nomad civs can do that. I think its appropriate.

What is "Invasion Project"???

a leftover from an attempt to get some civs to "build" conquerors. it didn't work.

sprt, what is the final resolution on Judean UHVs? Ideally they are suppose to win without expanding much. And proselytizing was never the goal in Judaism. Judaism should spread naturally along with trade roads, like in vanila BTS. Jewish Missioner should act as religious prosecutor, not missionary.

In addition to temple of Solomon, I suggest First and Second Religious goals. First Religious Goal could be -- Ensure that every civ which has city with Judaism does not run civics that oppresses Jews by the time Christianity is founded (so no "we desire religious freedom" angry faces in Roman Rome if it has Judaism). Second Religious goal would be controlling Holy Christian and Muslim cities. Meaning staying in charge of Monotheism either by discovering techs by themselves, or defeating owners of founders of other Monotheistic "sects".

And as a personal request -- please edit Jewish DoM text. The original pronunciation of YHWH was lost many centuries ago, because name was so sacred, but the available evidence indicates that it was in all likelihood Yahweh, not Jahveh. No source is using Jahveh, KJV is using Jehovah, but YHWH can be the most cool way to represent Jewish flavor in DoM text.

I think the UHVs are ok as they are. I don't think surviving until the Arab spawn would be much fun and no unhappy faces in other civs cities is a bit hard to control. I'm happy to change the spelling in the dawn text though.

 

[Sitalkas]

all the nomad civs can do that. I think its appropriate.

This resulted in the destruction of the Tocharians by the Xiongnu in 104 BC though, they couldn't cope with so many horse archers. They only controlled Kasghar after the Xiongnu spawn.

Maybe give a couple of more UUs to the Tocharians at their spawn?



Also, I haven't seen a roman civil war for a really long time! Did you remove it?

 

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

I have never seen a Roman civil war in the half-dozen games I've played this year.

 

[Sorindafabico]

a leftover from an attempt to get some civs to "build" conquerors. it didn't work.

So isn't possible to build Synthesis?

 

[Sitalkas]

Gee, barbarian spawning seems to be more than restless after the Hephthalite spawn date!

They come from everywhere, almost each turn!

 

[Crossphazer]

Would it be possible to extend the 1st Kushan UHV to include all types of specialized markets (including grain and fish market)? There is little control over which traders happen where, so it could just happen that there is not enough spice and cloth merchants to go around!

 

[Samani]

Byzantian's Lpqy is call City. 550 ad start.

Spoiler :

 

[Exorro]

It's been awhile, but the first goal for the Vandals to get 5,000 gold still does not register on the due date even though it's checked off.

Also for the Franks the No Islam In Europe goal is mixed up with the Charlemagne Empire goal. It seems to only be the GUI though, 700AD still checks for your empire and not for Islam.

Carthago Nova had islam and I still won. Is that intentional?

Also for the Visigoths, it says you need 5,000 culture but it seems to check off at 3,000. I'd guess this is a typo?

And the first time I've ever seen this, I discovered Jurisprudence long before 650AD and it gave me 1/3. Come 600 AD, there was no check for having Italy, Spain, and Africa. 650 AD there is still no check for the provinces and the culture/stable check doesn't happen either, and then I lose the check I had for Jurisprudence.