RFC Classical World

[agentxorange]

No, but it adds another layer of strategy and challenge, and makes it more enjoyable for me. I should have said I didn't think they were doable currently without slaves - my bad. It still would have been a close call to research Bulk Trade even with slaves, and I never have trouble with UHVs on monarch. I had a hunch Srpt had overlooked that when changing fairgrounds and markets, and I was correct.

I wouldn't be calling him out for "overlooking" stuff, slavery is the civic you have to use to get by the early game. Fairgrounds are for later, especially since the bonus they give is so powerful. I also wouldn't talk about not being able to do a civ's UHV or saying their game isn't good when you're not playing them correctly.

 

[Brew]

Nobody's calling anybody out or saying the game isn't fun or good. You need fairgrounds to build cloth markets and I wanted to be sure the creator was aware and that it might be more difficult than he intended to achieve that.

I wasn't thinking of their goals when I made changes to the Markets and Fairgrounds. I will look at it again.

 

[Brew]

Hey Srpt, would you consider making theaters available in the early game (and perhaps removing the artist slot from the library to compensate)? It would be very cool to be able to build them as the Hellenic civs or the Romans.

 

[Swarbs]

Hey Srpt, would you consider making theaters available in the early game (and perhaps removing the artist slot from the library to compensate)? It would be very cool to be able to build them as the Hellenic civs or the Romans.

I second that.

I've often thought it's a bit odd to have to wait so long to build theatres, which pre-dated this mod by a good couple of hundred years at least.

Maybe move the theatre to require Alphabet, cost 60 and make it give 1, 1 per 20% culture rate, and have 1 artist slot. Then create a new amphitheatre which requires Drama, costs 90 hammers, and gives 2, 1 per 10% culture and has 1 artist slot. Remove the artist slot from the library to balance the specialists and allow players to specialise in culture without committing lots of to building libraries.

That would be more contemporaneous with theatres being widespread in the Hellenistic worlds in 500BC, whilst amphitheatres emerged around the 1st century BC. Also makes more sense to have the Byzantine hippodrome replace a full amphitheatre rather than a smaller theatre, and likewise for the other theatre based UBs.

 

[Swarbs]

Getting python exceptions on startup, not sure if it's my game or the latest commit?

 

[Swarbs]

Also Tyranny only seems to give one happiness for the first military unit and not for the second. So there's little point running Tyranny atm as the net happiness benefit is zero and the cost is high.

 

[Sitalkas]

lol, never seen that before!

 

[srpt]

svn 267

fixed Tyranny's happiness bonus
fixed the text on the random stability event

I agree changes need to be made with buildings. almost all of them need to be cheaper imo. there just isn't time to build many of them when going for UHVs.

I have been doing some work on RFC India but I will get back to this soon.

 

[DC123456789]

Maybe the Dynamic Name for the Graeco-Bactrians should be the Indo-Greek Kingdom (Empire if they're big enough) if they have their capital in India?

 

[Sitalkas]

Are there dynamic names at all?

 

[DC123456789]

It's coded IIRC but very few of them exist (mainly just Kingdom vs. Empire IIRC).

 

[Sitalkas]

I have to say that Bactrians are once again my fav civ in this mod!! The new UHV is much more doable and it gives you the opportunity to do research on defensive techs to resist the restless barbarian activity!

My hint to anyone trying them: 1st building in Bactra has to be a library. Then use the scientist slot to force a great scientist. He will build the Hellenic academy and now you can build missionaries!

2nd hint : build that city shown in the pic, above Antiocheia Margianna, with your 2nd settler. It's in your core, so it boosts your stability, and it has horses! You can now start building your UU to help you against the Sakas and the barbarians!

 

[Sitalkas]

sorry for the double post!

Is the summer palace removed from the game? Can't find it!

 

[calad]

So silent that I present my idea of local vs global religion.

Local religions are nation specific, regional religions that eventually disappeared during mods time frame. They also have characteristics like lack of central authority, lack of dogma and they dont have a messianic message. Local religions also dont have holy city because lack of pilgrims and central authority. Some religions would be: Hellenism, Chinese folk religion, Mesopotamian religion, Egyptian religion, Canaanian/Phoenecian religions, Celtism and other minor religions I surely forgot to mention.

Global religion would be like normal religions: Christianity, Islam, Confu, Taoism, Shinto, Hindu and Buddhism and Jewish.

 

[Samani]

Hi! I've played Seleucos and I have a question. When you give back cities in India to Mauryan Empire, you get war elephants only for 1 city? Because I gave back a lot of cities (from Taxila to Barygaza), and I only get 3 war elephants, even If I give him more than one city.

Spoiler :

Also, there are mysterious tiles in China.

Spoiler :

A last thing, what can be done to prevent our ressources to disappear? Losing strategic ressources is a bit annoying.

Spoiler :

 

[Swarbs]

Hi! I've played Seleucos and I have a question. When you give back cities in India to Mauryan Empire, you get war elephants only for 1 city? Because I gave back a lot of cities (from Taxila to Barygaza), and I only get 3 war elephants, even If I give him more than one city.

That's intentional - srpt changed it to prevent the gifting of cities to get elephants being massively OP. You only get elephants in exchange for the first city you gift.

A last thing, what can be done to prevent our ressources to disappear? Losing strategic ressources is a bit annoying.

That's historical - the elephants in that part of the world were historically hunted to extinction, so they are removed as a strategic resource:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_elephant

The same happens to the North African elephants in Mauretania.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_African_elephant

Use them wisely whilst you have them!

 

[Samani]

All right, thanks for the informations Swarbs!

 

[srpt]

yes thanks for stepping in with that info

about the black tiles, they can result from the python script that reveals the appropriate provinces at the start or when a civ spawns. I fixed the one between Taiyuan and Ji but the one near Jincheng did not occur in my game.

svn 268

the Heroic Epic is replaced by the Great Armory, built by a Great General, requires Logistics, which now requires Military Drill in addition to Bulk Trade, same +100% unit production but less culture. the Parthian and Chola UHVs now require the National Epic.

Drama tech out, Theatre now requires Literature

Caste System, Trade Economy and Patronage now give double slots rather than unlimited specialists, like DoC.

in Caste System Laborers get 2 hammers. this may seem OP, but now it actually competes with Slavery.

Libraries are back to 2 scientists, they briefly had 1 scientist, 1 artist.

AI civs now spawn 1 city defender on city conquest within 20 years of its birth, with city defense AI preset. hopefully this will help stabilize new civs though this confusing (for the AI) stage.

Bulk Trade now requires Code of Laws and Currency, making it significantly more accessible to many civs. therefore there should be more Fairgrounds and hopefully more later companies.

also Code of Laws can now be bulbed by a Great Prophet

end of svn 268

about religious buildings:

first, some background. the decision to include more than the strictly necessary number of religions was made at the very start of the mod. (obviously the mod could exist with just Confucianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity and Islam, with Judaism maybe as a minor since it only applies to one civ) back than I was very anxious that the mod seem unique and not just a map and a bunch of civs, so I wanted religion to be somehow different. hence the unique aspects of the religious buildings, the pilgrims, the 3-way "or" condition for missionaries (building or civic or bonus, which was actually quite weird to code). you could also include the fact that State Religion starts out as unique to a couple of civs and only really becomes prominent until the 2nd half of the timeframe.

now I feel like it was great to try all those ideas and I like some of them but not all of them, plus I have quite a different view of how "different" religion needs to be in this mod to suit the mod. basically, the mod has come to seem extremely unique to me in its overall feel and how it plays, and at the same time it seems to me that it could feel more streamlined, easier to hold all the rules and possibilities in your head while playing.

another factor is that there are just too many specialist slots overall in my opinion given the city sizes. I think the mod would balance better with buildings giving 1 or 2 slots each rather than 2 or 3 as it is now, given that some can be doubled with civics and on the religious side many (most?) cities have more than one religion and a lot have more than 2.

first, I really like pilgrims. they are staying.

now about missionaries, monasteries and the religious resources. if you move missionaries from monasteries to temples, the elaborate system of the religious resources and the 3 way "or" condition is not necessary. it was all really for the Tocharians.

this could mean that the 2nd religious building could be almost anything and wouldn't have to account for the missionary ability at all, and not all religions would need to have them. only giving them to some religions would create a de facto 2 tier system and make it easier to possibly include other recently suggested religions as "temples only" or possibly even a third tier whose temples provide happiness and culture but no priest slots at all.

of the religions to get 2nd buildings I think something like this:

Buddhism: monastery
all Christian: monastery
Islam: madrassah
Confucian school? taixue? re-name Han UB?

all these would have scientist slots and other unique bonuses

and you could just leave it there. those are the religions that really became multi-national, and that could be the deciding factor. interestingly the other one that became multi-national was Manichaeism.

or you could also give 2nd buildings to others.

I'm interested to hear what people think about this.

 

[calad]

I really did not catch the reason why religions are strickly limited, I merely thought minor religions would be nice minor feature "oh look what is in here". Also buildings related into religions can be less significant.

But what I really liked was library gives +1 scientist and +1 artist. It gave this modmod nice classic era atmosphere...

 

[srpt]

I really did not catch the reason why religions are strickly limited, I merely thought minor religions would be nice minor feature "oh look what is in here". Also buildings related into religions can be less significant.

they aren't strictly limited. I agree that a couple or few more could be fine. the one that seems like it is most needed is a combo mesopotamian-pheonician one. I know they were different but I think one would enough. it would be present in Mesopotamia, Syria and Carthage at the start and not spread. I have always felt that cities like Damascus should not just have Zoroastrianism and Judaism at the start.

But what I really liked was library gives +1 scientist and +1 artist. It gave this modmod nice classic era atmosphere...

I know it has a nice feel but now there is the Theatre at Literature for artists and I kind of miss being able to run 2 scientists. otherwise it is difficult to produce any number of great scientists before monasteries.