RFC Classical World

[Cetrix]

what year were the Seleucids collapsing in your games?

It's very random. Sometimes very early, before Judah and Parthia spawn. Because of wars against Egypt (it's actualy cool) and losing Damas and Tyre, re conquer, and so on. And some barbs, they take sometimes a city (Ecbanata). So more activity due to wars, I like it, but it hurts. Or they collapse few turns after Parthia. I'll do more tests, it was only 4 games.

 

[Wessel V1]

Some more feedback on the Tocharians: the first goal is a 'by' goal which makes it trivial. I failed the second goal even though I had access to both a Silk (from my own territories) and an Incense (from trade). The third goal is pretty hard because science is seriously tough for the Tocharians. I don't know if I'm able to discover the technology for missionaries in time.

 

[srpt]

I don't want to start the Tocharians with Priesthood before anyone else has it. the first civ to spawn with it is the Satavahanas in 200BC. how much of a boost do you think the Tocharians need?

 

[Cetrix]

Game 1 :
- Tyre captured by Egypt ~turn 35.
- Babylon captured by barbarians ~turn 45.
- Judah spawn, they conquer Damas.
- Parthia spawn. Seleucids collapse turn 131 (!).

Game 2 :
- Tyre captured by Egypt turn 11.
- Damas captured by Egypt turn 17.
- Tyre reconquered ~turn 65.
- Damas reconquered turn 68.
- Byzantion captured ~turn 80.
- Ephesus captured ~turn 90.
- Sinope captured ~turn 95.
- Judah spawn. New war between Seleucids and Egypt. Egypt conquer Tyre, and one turn later seleucids get it back. And then, they conquer Jerusalem and Judah is wiped out turn 115 (about 149BC).
- Persepolis conquered by barbarians one turn before Parthia spawn.
- Parthia spawn. They conquer Susa. Few turns laters, after a battle in openfield near Seleucia, they capture the town. 130BC.
- Game crash (always during the best games...). I guess Seleucids would also lose Babylon and Aleppo soon. Their armies was beaten and no really defenses in those towns.

 

[srpt]

I wonder about the crash. does it repeat? can you post a save from before?

 

[Cetrix]

Game 3 :
- Tyre captured by Egypt turn 10.
- Damas captured by Egypt turn 15.
- Sinope conquered ~turn 65.
- Chernossos fliped to Seleucids ~turn 70.
- Aleppo conquered by Egypt turn 75.
- Antiochia conquered by Egypt turn 83.
- Seleucids collapse turn 98. 188BC.

Game 4 :
- Tyre conquered by Egypt turn 10.
- Egypt fails to conquer Damas turn 17, but was very close.
- Sinope conquered turn 92.
- Herat conquered by Bactria turn 94.
- Judah spawn. They fail to conquer Damas.
- Parthia spawn. They conquer Susa then Seleucia. Seleucids collapse 131BC (!).

@Srpt : it's fine. It crash because of my trick : autoturn and no fog of war, open Wb, alt-tab to write here the feedback step by step. It's not regular game.

 

[Wessel V1]

I think part of the error was that I went for Selective Breeding first, at that time I didn't realize research wasn't going to improve anymore. Without this, I think I might make it just in time. Hopefully some civ researches it quite soon, I can probably trade it for Selective Breeding.

 

[srpt]

@Wessel: well I was imagining that they would have to beeline monasticism. did you conquer Samarkand or did Buddhism spread to you?

@Cetrix: oh good, I was worried.

 

[Wessel V1]

Buddhism spread to me. I went east in stead of west, these cities are production powerhouses. This advantage disappears however after some time, so I think I'll try to collapse the Han early on next time. They are the Rome of the east, it's hard to keep up with them. Stability should be fine I think, the economy rating compensates the territorial penalty easily. I think with this in mind, the Tocharians are OK for now.

I ran a test start as the Franks earlier today and they were the superpower, controlling entire China, Korea and the Samarkand region. Their cities were immense, a combined population of 6.4M. I don't think this is really bad, but the game still needs some improvements for this era. Very few civs were alive. Rome survived until the end of the 4th century, so that seems fine I think.

 

[AdrienIer]

What exactly is the purpose of the Roundship ? It has the same strength as the galley, the same speed and one less cargo space. The game would want me to upgrade my galleys to roundships at the cost of 155 gold, but I'm not sure I'd want to upgrade them even if it was free... shouldn't roundships have at least 1 more strength and 1 more speed than the galley ?

 

[Cetrix]

About religion, why not add an instant spread of christianism in the roman empire (random cities, between 3 and 6) when it appears ?

 

[srpt]

@AdrienIer: the roundship is a holdover from Sword of Islam. I haven't touched any ships other than Galleys and War Galleys. I'll fix that up soon.

@Cetrix: yes there will be some event to spread Christianity quickly when it spawns. I will probably just copy the Great Saint effect that converts up to 6 cities.

and BenZL43 has helped us out with some better names for SE Asian provinces so thanks!

 

[rrosen]

I tried the Tocharians as well. You can conquer Samarqand early by positioning your starting archers south of the city on the hill and just wait for barbarians to soften the defenders. Samarqand is a very productive city, provided you can keep up with the constant barbarian pressure.

I went directly for priesthood and monasticism. Those techs can be sold for so many others that I could nearly keep up with Han and Rome.

The open border goal did not trigger immediately, but well before 100 AD. It was not hard, as selling monasticism made the other civs happy. I achieved the buddhism goal in 82 AD, with plenty of time to spare.

For the silk and the incense, I am at total loss. Wessel, where in your territory did you find silk? Normally, the Sabeans are willing to sell, but I couldn't connect to their trade network, even during the periods the Parthians were not waging war against me.

 

[srpt]

there have been times when I thought I should be able to trade with someone but couldn't, and other times when I could trade and couldn't figure out why. I might have to put a preplaced road to Saba. or I may put 1 incense in India somewhere.

 

[rrosen]

Or the human player could send a group of workers down to build that road. Generally, I like the separation of resources in different regions that force trade. In SoI, civs don't want to trade away silk due to the Kutlag-Timur wonder, can something like that be afloat here as well?

 

[srpt]

part of the problem is there are no ports in Mesopotamia or Persia but I don't want to move any of those cities. were the Satavahanas alive and did you have open borders with them? they have ports and should be connected to Saba.

 

[srpt]

I think that wonder is still in the XML but its not buildable.

I like the invisible route idea. it could be called a "Caravan Route", not buildable, no fast movement, but connects key areas. then we could let roads be pillageable again. the only reason they aren't is to keep barb pillaging from wrecking everyone's trade.

 

[rrosen]

Ah, of course, Satavahanas. I declared war on them to get other civs friendly enough to want to trade, didn't think of the trade network repercussions.

I like the fact that roads are not pillaged. Generally, there is a very high barbarian pressure in the mod, so many civs have to fight a constant border war to keep their improvements alive. Pillaged roads would mean a more static world and a harder time for successor civs to expand.

 

[Wessel V1]

I'm not sure how I got Incense. I planned to actually conquer a coastal city, but the cities in Southern China were just taken by others when I got the idea, and Korea had Swordsmen so I thought "well, maybe this coastal city isn't needed so badly after all." Silk can be found in Shu. Yichang and Tai-yuan are excellent cities in the early game. Mercenary Camels are perfect to take them. I took Tai-yuan first since Yichang was Qin, but the Qin sent a force right after I took the city, so I evacuated it and took Yichang in stead, and as soon as the first archer arrived to defend that city, I took Yichang back. There is stone nearby which makes walls very cheap to build. After that just wait for the Qin to criple and conquer the cities that don't flip to the Han.

Fun fact by the way is that Rome managed to conquer the entire Alexandrian empire, up till lake Aral and the Indus. The Celts however control Iberia and Gaul, Carthage is independent. Strange priorities these Romans have.

As the Pandyans I found that the Han aren't always willing to trade for Silk even when they have one spare so I found this a more reliable and satisfying solution. The goal didn't trigger though.

 

[rrosen]

Hence my thought that there is some carry-over of don't-want-to-trade-silk. I didn't try to war with China, because I was afraid of their might, but that might be the only way to get silk.

I bought mercenary camels to take Samarqand - only to find that the forest blocked the way! That was a bad investment.