RFC Classical World

srpt · Apr 6, 2012

ok I have given up on the conditional spawn bug for the time being. hopefully embryodead will be able to help me with it when he gets back.

for now, all spawns destroy the city they land on so Parsa, Byzantium, Luoyang etc will have to be refounded by the new civ.

Parsa will become the Zoroastrian Holy City when founded as long as its the Sassanids 1st city.

Pataliputra will become the Buddhist Holy City when founded as long as its the Guptas 1st city.

the Byzantine spawn appears to be fixed ie they will flip all Roman cities in their Normal Regions.

and also the Seleucids (AI only) will not receive a stability hit from losing cities to the Parthian spawn.

and I'm going to be slowly chipping away at tech tree changes for a while. when I tried to do it all at once I got crashes so I'm doing it a few techs at a time. the ultimate goal is this:

Spoiler :

comments welcome but I'm not even going to look at the tech chooser screen until I'm finished everything else.

Cetrix · Apr 6, 2012

Srpt, if you want some help for dynamic cities names I can do it. Just tell me how to do with the coordinates (is it x,y,z or whatever ? A number per tile ?)

srpt · Apr 6, 2012

that would be great!

here's how it works:

there's a master map with one name (or none, indicated by "-1") for each tile. that map exists as an open office spreadsheet and as a section of the python file CityNameManager.py.

you won't probably change anything on the master map, but may add to it.

the 2nd part of the python file consists of "dictionaries", lists of names paired with other names, one list for each "language" in the mod. so if you decide that Samarqand should become Maracamba if captured by the a Greek civ, you would find the Greek list and add Samarqand equals Maracamba, copying the actual syntax from whats there.

there is another set of statements listing the 1st and 2nd language of each civ.

if you want to change something on the master map you change it in the spreadsheet first, where you can see where it is, and then copy-paste the spreadsheet over the appropriate part of the python file.

you should use Notepad++. its free.

Cetrix · Apr 7, 2012

That's simple

I'll do it next week, at least for europe.

Leoreth · Apr 7, 2012

Greek Samarqand is Marakanda, though

And I think the common rendering of Persian Antiochia Margiana is Marv, not Merv.

rrosen · Apr 7, 2012

I tried the Seleucids again. I have no detailed report, but a few pictures. No reloads, but you have enough production capacity to absorb unlucky losses. The usual strategy with Egypt first, the Anatolia and Greece before the Bactrian spawn worked well.

Spoiler :

Money was the largest challenge, but it worked out ok with plundering cities in India and cities bulding wealth. I wasn't really ready for the Romans, but gifting them Salonika was enough to satisfy them.

Spoiler :

The Jewish revolt was a fun action break before the Parthians. Instead of taking Jerusalem, the entire stack walked towards Tyre, captured it and made it their capital, and adopted Hellenism as state religion

Spoiler :

For the provinces goal, Crimea is a nice, productive single city province to take. Sadly, I failed with the great general goal, by 60 BC I was only halfway to my third. I delayed declaring war against Rome too long and my units slaughtered Parthia, which didn't give that many great general points.

Again, my impression is that the decrease in legionary strength weakened the Romans too much. They weren't as aggressive, did not control Carthage, and I haven't seen them conquer the Celts since the strength decrease.

merijn_v1 · Apr 7, 2012

@ srpt

Where are the regions defined? There is an island south of Japan which is counted as "Pacific Ocean" instead of "Islands". I want to fix that but I don't know how.

Wessel V1 · Apr 7, 2012

Which one of the Terracotta Armies do I have to build as the Qin? It seems there are two wonders with the same name, but other benefits (svn version of a few hours ago)

srpt · Apr 7, 2012

regions are in the DLL. I'll fix that island.

@rrosen: I'm confused, how did you achieve the 1st Seleucid goal if you gave Salonika to the Romans? and I'll try raising legions back to 7 but I'm afraid they will be unbeatable. was the 1st goal hard? it was for me, I barley got it. I always go for Greece 1st so I get it before the Romans. so far they haven't declared war.

I'm going to work on the Qin today, just enought ot make sure the wonder goal is possible but hard, then I will give some serious attention to the Celts/Romans/Carthage, promise.

@Leoreth: all the books I read when I was a kid used Merv, so it stuck with me, but I'll go with Marv. I think Maracamba was a typo on my part. I was tired.

I actually like it if the Hebrews go Hellenism once in a while. part of the Maccabean revolt was a struggle between traditionalist and Hellenizing Jews so its a little bit (alt-)historic.

double Terracotta Army fixed now.
someone please try Egypt!

Cetrix · Apr 7, 2012

Again, my impression is that the decrease in legionary strength weakened the Romans too much. They weren't as aggressive, did not control Carthage, and I haven't seen them conquer the Celts since the strength decrease.

I strongly agree. I did 10-12 tests of autoturns games yesterday untill 80BC as Dacia with some Wb opening to see how it's going at some key dates :
- Rome get only 0 or 1 city in Gaul, but it was <80BC so it's quite fine... but i don't know if before 0AD they will conquer the whole country.
- They never conquer Carthage, which collapse in most of games. Sometimes they get Spain.
- Sometimes they conquer Egypt.
- They always conquer Greece when seleucids collapse.
- About seleucids, they ALWAYS collapse (10 times on 10 autoturn games) between 135 and 125BC, when the parthans conquer 1 or 2 cities in Mesopotamia (mainly Susa and Seleucia or Babylon). Because of the loss of their capital and stability hits in core area ?
- Seleucia was the capital of the seleucids only a very few years in history. It was founded in 305BC and Antioch became capital at the end of his reign (it ends in 280BC). So, probably less than 20 years. As the bactrians, maybe give in ~280BC a free capital move to the seleucid AI ? And as human, auto move to Antioch if the eastern provinces are lost ? Or loose Mesopotamia as core province if it's lost ? It's some ideas for you.
- At the other hand, parthans are well, as Bactrians.

@sprt : the 1st seleucid goal require to unify the Alexander's empire once. I guess he gave the city after it (we can see 1/3 on the score board).

rrosen · Apr 7, 2012

I gave Salonika away after having scored the 1st UHV. After that, you are free to play the diplomacy game. Going for Egypt first, UHV 1 was fairly easy. The main challenge is the near economic collapse you get from conquering all those cities so quickly. I only let Parsa, and perhaps a second city, construct units, but those are enough for conquering.

As for the Seleucids collapse, is it possible to give them the no stability hit for city loss ability?

srpt · Apr 7, 2012

I've taken away every stability hit for the Seleucids that I can find and they still collapse. as it is now they are supposed to get no hit from the Parthian spawn yet they still seem to take a bad one around that time. I will work something out where they move back to Syria and move the capital to Antioch instead of collapsing. Or I might just start the capital in Antioch.

I forgot the Seleucid goal was "by" not "in". I may change that.

about the Romans, has anyone seen the message "Fighting between Greek city-states has led to an armed intervention by Rome"? its an event thats supposed to trigger when AI Rome gets a great general.

rrosen · Apr 7, 2012

Nooooooo, that will make their goal so much harder and reliant on not getting respawns in Egypt. I think they are one of the most challengings civs already that will require many tries for a player before the UHVs can be achieved.

I haven't seen that message.

I think starting the capital in Antioch is a good idea.

Edit: In case you change the goal, I think they will need more starting money. I gave away Berenice and Diopolis to the Nubians, just to decrease maintenance. If their amount of starting money is increased, more cities can be dedicated to unit production and they will stand a chance when colliding with the Roman war machine.

srpt · Apr 7, 2012

ok I think I can raise Legions back to 7, +25% vs melee. an attacking Gallic Warrior would be 8.75 (5 +25% vs melee +50% attacking heavy spearman) vs 8.75 (7 +25% vs melee) with no other bonuses, which definately give the Celts a chance. as for defending cities, a fortified archer behind walls is 7.5 and an attacking Legion would be 7 so that looks fair. the Swordsman will need a boost though since they are supposed to obsolesce(sp?) Legions. I guess they could co to 8, +25% vs melee? maybe even +50% vs melee.

any other Legion comments? should they be heavy spearmen or something else? anyone else notice that this leaves the Romans without a cavalry counter? I don't think this is a bad thing, it was their blind spot. Legions could be archery units like Javelinmen (they are a sort of heavy javelinman). I was really impressed at how powerful Vishap Infantry in Sword of Islam were, mostly just becuae they weren't melee.

@rrosen: when you slaughtered Parthia did they have Marksmen? if they did and they fell easily I will give them more.

srpt · Apr 7, 2012

Egyptian respawns are off and shouldn't occur. let me know if you see any. I'll keep the Seleucid goal as it is.

I found the pacing of city conquest to keep the gold flowing to be the most interesting aspect of the Seleucid game. it seems perfectly balanced right now. I was on the edge of bankruptcy the entire time but always found a way forward. its cool that you went all the way to India to plunder. did you have horsemen for that?

rrosen · Apr 7, 2012

I agree that city hunting was fun, and the ~150 gold you get for a city will keep you afloat several turns. For India, I used elephants and city attack 3 promoted hoplites.

Parthia had stacks of marksmen. I think slaughtering is exaggerating it. By the time the war with Parthia was in full bloom, my economy was fixed and gold was flowing in. Therefore, I could hire huge stacks (10+ each time) of mercenaries to suicide, whereafter elephants and hoplites could take the city.

It is nice that the Romans are strong by default, but have a weakness against cavalry. The pacing of them expanding until they run into the Parthians as the default course feels historical.

srpt · Apr 7, 2012

@everyone: thanks so much for your enthusiasm. I'm really happy with how things are going and you are all a part of that.

and if anyone tries Egypt: their UB has changed and its vital to success. also the Tyranny civic you start in cuts culture by 50% and you have a culture goal. I did it without switching civics but you may not want to try it that way.

rrosen · Apr 7, 2012

Svn 266, Egyptians. As usual, no reloads. You have to researh priesthood, then litterature for great library (build before 150 BC), then discover calender mathematics and cartography before 50 AD. Furthermore, Alexandria has to be first in culture and pop in 100 BC.

I start out peacefully, capture Cyrene but other than that build up my economy. In 188 BC two bad things happen, barbarians destroy Cyrene, and Nubia attacks me, despite the fact that I have given in to all their demands.

Perhaps I concentrate too much on economy. Barbarian attacks kill all my workers and pillage my improvements.
I failed the first goal with more than ten turns left to discover literature. Had I managed to get literature, I would have built the wonder with a great engineer.

In 150 BC, Alexandria was the largest city in the world. I was 80 culture behind Babylon (360 vs 440), but I think that could have been overtaken. The new UB is crucial for the wonder goal, you will definetly not have time to build the great library.

srpt · Apr 7, 2012

did you stay in Tyranny? I missed the culture goal as well but I was quite close. 1 more building would have done it. I never bothered with Cyrene, too much to defend. it was really hard getting literature by 150BC. I had to build research in the big cities while losing lots of gold per turn, sold Priesthood for 30 gold to give myself 2 more turns before bankruptcy. in one start I got Zoroastrianism in Diospolis, which would have allowed me to run an artist with a Zoroastrian temple and bulb Literature. I didn't try since I figured Zoroastrianism would rarely spread there.

there was new commit with updated Legion and Swordsman strength just a few minutes ago btw.

rrosen · Apr 7, 2012

Second try went well until the Seleucids and Romans made a joint attack. But the research goal is really tough. I think I'll gamble and let the first great engineer build the great lighthouse instead of saving it. Wonder if I should gift the Nubians Berenice...
Edit: staying in Tyranny so far, the extra happiness from units helps Alexandria grow, and culture seems doable.

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