RFC Classical World

[srpt]

fixed the mixed up civs and the Christian building sounds.

yes some of the UHVs are not really balanced and I guess the Celts are one of them. as far as the colonization goes its the Dacian spawn that makes the deadline. I'm open to ideas. I've also tried the Kushans 3 times recently and was getting beaten by a combination of Parthia and either Sungas or Satavahanas.

the epic timeline is now out. the regular timeline is slower now though, 18 months per turn on the way through.

I have had a couple of random crashes as well but they never recurred when I loaded an autosave and played on.

 

[CrossRFC]

I have a save from 388 AD (and an autosave from the same turn), and every single time I load up the game, it crashes when going from 388 to 389, consistently.

Also on the list of things I've noticed: (sorry if I seem overly critical, this modmod is quite amazing and I want to help fix the bugs/minor issues!)

- Carthaginian names for their cities instead of Latin ones? (Original RFC is a pretty good reference for those.)

- "Roman Empire" should be SPQR (Senatus Populusque Romanus) until the split between East and West, at which point "Empire" is fitting (it's more or less around that time that the "Dominate" phase of the empire starts).

- Perhaps there should be city in southern Italy that doesn't flip to the Romans, and instead they would quickly conquer it in a small Epirote-Roman war of sorts? This would mean Rome would spawn about 30 years earlier to compensate. Tarentum could have 2 war elephants, a hoplite and a spearman?

- Southern Illyria really needs a food ressource (fish on coast?) and a gold ressource (it was reputed for its gold mines in Roman times) to make it more appealing.

- Roman spawn-stack against Carthage should really appear in Spain instead of right next to Carthage. Against Gaul, the stack spawns somewhere in Italy (I think?), so Rome shouldn't be allowed that much of an advantage against Carthage.

- Is it just me, or are buildings like the Inn innacessible?

- I think this has been said before, but Sassanids have the Japanese artstyle, leaderhead, flag...etc.

- Jin Empire and Sassinids are also mixed up for some strange reason. Nevermind, I think you just fixed it.

That's all I can think of but I'm sure I'll edit a few more bugs in as I seem them in-game.

 

[Sitalkas]

I've also tried the Kushans 3 times recently and was getting beaten by a combination of Parthia and either Sungas or Satavahanas.

I hope that you dont plan to boost them more !!! They are already strong enough and the only way to stop them is an alliance! That's how I beat them when playing as the Bactrians! I make an alliance (usually with the Parthians) and we stop them!

 

[CrossRFC]

I hope that you dont plan to boost them more !!! They are already strong enough and the only way to stop them is an alliance! That's how I beat them when playing as the Bactrians! I make an alliance (usually with the Parthians) and we stop them!

Just hold up on the hill city of Kokand (build walls) with some heavy spearman and watch as Kushan's army destroys itself

Also, has anyone tried a game as a late game civ? The game crashes somewhere in the 300s or 400s while loading for me.

 

[Sitalkas]

in my previous Bactrian game I just used some elephants and they were dead soon enough !


edit : I have tried many late game civs, no crash at all

 

[srpt]

the Bactrians should be able to achieve their goals before the Kushan spawn and the Kushans are supposed to destroy them.

the consistent crash: is that svn or regular download?

I have to leave town from tomorrow til next week so I will put up a new regular version before I leave.

re Illyricum: there is a gold in Dacia. 2 in the area might be too much. as is there is one in Spain and one in Dacia and a few in Egypt/Nubia. a lesser seafood resource (crab or clam) would be good if the city is having trouble growing.

some buildings (like the Inn) are leftovers from SoI. some will probably get added back in as other buildings once I get more of a feel for the mod and what different civs needs are.

 

[CrossRFC]

The consistent crash was from the svn version from a few days ago. I'll try the latest version to see if there are any issues.

Also, yeah, I can see that with gold in Dacia it might be a bit much, but indeed, a seafood ressource would help with growth in the quite mountaneous/forested region of lower Illyria.

About Kushan: it does exactly what it is supposed to against Bactria, western India and northern Parthia in all the games I've seen.

In general, everything East of Antioch is pretty well balanced and scripted. I believe the Mediterrean needs a little extra work to give it the same charm as say...a Seleucid game.

 

[srpt]

I also pushed the Celtic start back by 3 turns so its very possible to raze both Massilia and Mediolanum before the Roman spawn. I managed to defeat their first attack and later got the peace event. I can see how Britannia and Anatolia are a bit crazy as goals. ther is no way to get sailing to reach Britannia as you have no techs to trade. in my game I was teching for archery but it was taking a long time.

has anyone played the Kushans and successfully dealt with Parthia?

 

[Sitalkas]

Crossphazer's bug with Bactria verified!

I was playing with them, doing good, and suddenly in 22 AD all my cities went independent and I lost!

Spoiler :

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[CrossRFC]

I also pushed the Celtic start back by 3 turns so its very possible to raze both Massilia and Mediolanum before the Roman spawn. I managed to defeat their first attack and later got the peace event. I can see how Britannia and Anatolia are a bit crazy as goals. ther is no way to get sailing to reach Britannia as you have no techs to trade. in my game I was teching for archery but it was taking a long time.

has anyone played the Kushans and successfully dealt with Parthia?

I've seen AI Kushan kick Parthia's butt many times (not complete conquest, but severe military decimation of Parthia.)

 

[srpt]

hopefully I will have time tonight to look into the Bactrian thing.

yes I will get to the Carthaginian city names.

no I'm not finding anything overly critical, all comments welcome, feel free to bug me about stuff I'm not getting to.

about mines on hills without resources: I don't like them, theres a debate about it earlier in the thread. if you want them go into improvements.xml, find mines and change HillsMakesValid to 1. I don't find it makes a huge difference in overall balance. slavery and caste systems workshops make up for it well I think.

the reason the Roman conquerors spawn in Africa is so they at least usually take that area. they should be able to walk to Spain on their own.

 

[Wessel V1]

In general, I've noticed that a good part of many civ's UHVs are either nearly impossible (depends on the situation you start in) or so difficult that achieving the goal is frustrating rather than fun. For example, as the Celts, dealing with Rome is already a challenge, but in addition, you have to conquer as far as Anatolia by 100 BC ! I think you got the Celtic UHVs in the wrong order. Dealing with Rome should be the earliest one, and total conquest should either be at a much later date, or not date-dependent at all. Many other UHVs can also be fixed by changing the dates or making the goals less lofty for the smaller civs.

Further edit: the 3rd UHV for Celts does not trigger in 50 AD. I'm fairly certain it will never trigger, but I haven't played until the end.

UHVs are hard but most of the time achievable after a few tries. For example, if you know what the Roman AI does with it's soldiers it's not that hard to lure them away and take the city. Also, you don't need to conquer Anatolia, just have a city in it. This means that those towns like Ephesus are sufficient, and those can be obtained without too much effort. I have to say it has been a while since I could play a game so it might have changed a bit (or a lot). Just like RFC the goals should not be too easy, else there would not be a real achievement to get them. I have found myself to have become a better player, going after those UHVs, you really learn to aim for something and to pick exactly that what gets you into that direction. If a goal is doable, it's fine (even though it doesn't mean doable for me!), especially when the mod is ready for the release of strategy guides.

 

[CrossRFC]

UHVs are hard but most of the time achievable after a few tries. For example, if you know what the Roman AI does with it's soldiers it's not that hard to lure them away and take the city. Also, you don't need to conquer Anatolia, just have a city in it. This means that those towns like Ephesus are sufficient, and those can be obtained without too much effort. I have to say it has been a while since I could play a game so it might have changed a bit (or a lot). Just like RFC the goals should not be too easy, else there would not be a real achievement to get them. I have found myself to have become a better player, going after those UHVs, you really learn to aim for something and to pick exactly that what gets you into that direction. If a goal is doable, it's fine (even though it doesn't mean doable for me!), especially when the mod is ready for the release of strategy guides.

As a veteran of RFC, I understand the need for difficult goals. Some of the goals are difficult to achieve, but possible after finding a good strategy, and satisfying when completed. However, some of these goals are downright cruel in difficulty, like getting to Anatolia as the Celts without sailing and while having to deal with many other places to settle/conquer + the Romans. I'm also not a fan of UHVs that involve reloading the entire game because you lost a single starting unit on a roll of the die.

the reason the Roman conquerors spawn in Africa is so they at least usually take that area. they should be able to walk to Spain on their own.

Yeah, given how stupid the AI can be with boats, fair enough. Though maybe they should spawn in the mountains...say...2 or 3 tiles away? I don't think this will change anything AI vs AI, but it would help the human player better deal with that "hack". Alternatively, I don't know how hard this would be to code/script, but maybe the legions should spawn in Rome (and maybe extra ones, too, to compensate) if Rome declares war on a human-controlled Mediterranean civ. The key to defeating the Roman Empire is depriving them of Rome anyhow, so it doesn't make the Carthaginian UHV any easier...

 

[srpt]

I think I fixed the Bactrian premature defeat. there was a condition set to kill them before the Kushan spawn but I forgot to turn it off in the case of a human Bactria. don't have time to test it but I'm pretty sure that was it.

 

[Wessel V1]

I'm also not a fan of UHVs that involve reloading the entire game because you lost a single starting unit on a roll of the die.

I agree with that part, I posted my concerns about this some months ago but I felt the odds are most of the time not of decisive importance. Therefore I don't think most UHVs are not too tight. Again, I have unfortunately not played any recent game, but in previous versions I managed to try and win some, for example the Celts.

 

[rrosen]

I also agree that the player should not have to game the system by reloading. I think Srpt have managed to fix that with the generally large number of units involved. When you e.g. have to use 10 units to take the city of Wu, 5-8 of which will die, the chance outcome of a single battle matters less.

 

[CrossRFC]

The starting Indian civ with Asoka (I forget the name) Mauryans have 2 war elephants, and if you're not lucky, it's over.

Edit: I'm not saying more elephants is the solution, but given that the goal is about conquering rebels, I can't think of a solution that doesn't involve brute force conquest.

The Seleucids are a fine example of conquest with an interesting twist, which in their case is all about managing a terribly overextended and bankrupt empire.

About the Bactrian premature defeat: I don't think you should just force the civ to collapse, even if it is AI-controlled. For example, what if I, the player, was allied with Bactria? Am I not allowed to protect it from the Kushans? This seems unfair. Instead, the Kushan's military might should conquer the region. Also: the Indo-Greek kings of Bactria relocated to western India when faced with serious barbarian encroachment, and survived until 100-and-something AD there. Therefore, Bactria could be forced into India by the Kushans. To conclude, I think it would be best if you didn't forcefully kill Bactria (or any other civ for that matter). The Bactrian military is never very strong and the Kushans are very powerful; do not lose faith in the AI, it usually does a good job!

Another edit: WHOA! Major bug! The Roman legions always spawn in Rome when you declare war on them, even if you own Rome! They just captured the city from me when I declared war...

Another update as Carthage: the lancer unit art is...well, broken. The riders are on their horses sideways. Must be a little glitch somewhere.

Also, there is a very odd bug for the great people birth rates...(Carthage once again)

Additionally, the Gauls seem to like to stay out of Italy, even when they have superior numbers and are at war with Rome. Maybe it's an aggression stat or a war map issue.

 

[srpt]

north italy already has max target value for the Celts, equivalent to core

the legions are only supposed to spawn in Rome the first time you declare war on them, and only if Rome is weakly defended. I 'll look into that.

about the Mauryans we could:

give them 1 more elephant

give them 2 axemen

or

make Kalinga or Ujjain barbarian

fixed the Carthage great people thing. it was just a text display and didn't actually increase their GP rate.

fixed the Carthaginian lancer

 

[CrossRFC]

I'd give them 2 axemen (more variety) and make one of the cities (probably the one deepest in the jungle) barbarian.

Edit: aha! I understand why Gaul never attacks: there is no way to get catapults to the other side of the Alps, and the stack stays with the catapults. Maybe allow catapults to cross mountains? (Unrealistic, yes, but this map contains numerous mountain passes where moving catapults is impossible e.g. Western Alps, Tocharian mountains, Bactrian/Indian border, etc.)

Further edit: The northern-western tip of Spain could use some stone, if only to provide the ressource to the Franks, Al Andalus, Carthage, babaric respawns...unless the specific point was to deny them of stone roads, which makes sense given the late antique/early medieval setting at the time the Franks arrive.

Updated: 444 AD as Carthage, game crashes, and crashes in 444 AD every time I reload a previous autosave and try again. On the bright side, it's later than my 389 AD crash problem. Sitalkas tells me he never crashes, so I'm very confused as to why this is happening to me.

Because you wanted to know how the Sassanids and Kushans are doing, in 443 AD in this game: Sassanids have all the Seleucid Empire's territory except Syria, and Kushans have Bactria, Sarmatia, Tocharian Empire's territory and northern India. Jin Empire is doing very well, and has united all of China, Korea and Northern Vietnam. Satavahana has the rest of India, and the Ptolemy's control Egypt, Nubia, Syria and Judea, as well as having Dacia as a vassal. The rest is my empire and vassals, with the addition of a Roman rump state.

Another edit! Franks UHV's texts are mixed up.

 

[Sitalkas]

Regarding crashes, perhaps that's a SVN promlem .. I'm playing the regular download, but yeah I haven't met any crash yet, and playing as the Byzantines I have gone as far as 700 AD ..

Edit: wait, how come the Ptolemy's control Egypt ?? The Byzantines have spawned, they should have got Egypt and the Levant ... Weird