RFC Classical World

[2phunkey4u]

I accidentally removed the starting techs for many non-playable civs in the later maps in the last update. svn is fixed but if you are using the regular dl here are some patched maps.

Later starts are great, but something must be broken.

For example: I started a Funan game from 80BC on. I could start playing right away in 80BC but w/o techs and workers. Funan also had the original color of Pandya. And the religious building-UHV was auto-lost. Starting from 320 BC, the situation was the same except the game loaded until to the correct turn, Funan was not pre-built and I got workers.

 

[CrossRFC]

there were several types of phalanx infantry in ancient Greece.

the first one was the spartan phalanx (see the 300)

then, Epaminondas of Thiva and his Thivan phalanxes ended the dominance of Spartan infantry and brought a new tactical warfare style in Greece.

finally , Philip (Alexander's father) enhanced the phalanx formation and conquered nearly all Greece.

So you can introduce these different units in game , eg

UU for the Antigonids : Macedonian Phalanx (a strong bonus vs melee and cavalry -- their pikes were 6m long! )

Also I agree that they should have a goal to stop the roman expansion towards the east (see 2nd punic war )

Can anyone come up to a UB???

also check this link to see the Diadochi territories, it will help you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigonus_I_Monophthalmus


other usefull links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_formation // http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_phalanx

The problem with using the Macedonian phalanx is that every other successor state uses the exact same model for their infantry, particularly the Seleucids, which is why I think called their UU "hoplite" is wrong, since a hoplite is more the "300-esque" soldier you're talking about.

As it turns out, this model of citizen-soldier was still widespread in mainland Greece up until the first few disastrous encounters with Rome, at which point phalanxes were equipped with chainmail and a wooden shield, and focus was beginning to shift away from the phalanx formation and the Thureophoroi medium spearmen (kind of Rome legion-esque) were favored.

Honestly, I'd prefer it if civs had a few different UU's to reflect their own quite varied militaries' strengths and weaknesses, but I don't know what srpt's opinion on that is.

 

[Sitalkas]

maybe this link helps then, its about the macedonian army http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedonian_army

basically, what I think is that we should distribute these units from the link to the various Greek civs. Bactrians have the Hetairoi at the moment and Seleucids the Phalanx.
So, create another unit from these link (Peltats?) for the Antigonids and do the following trick :

Create "Alexander The Great" title, or something like that, and give it to the Greek civ that controls all Alexander's empire (Antigonids, Seleucids, Ptolemys, Bactrian territory). Then that civ will be able to build all UU from these empires !

 

[CrossRFC]

Oh geez, I just realized! Anatolia should really be a contested province for the Ptolemaic Kingdom! They owned cities there, and that's where they get their Galatian soldiers from!

Edit: Also, I think Anatolia needs to be divided into "Asia Minor", "Galatia" and "Pontus".

Re-edit: I have both construction and sailing, and I have a harbor in Alexandria, but alas, there is no Great Lighthouse icon to be clicked!

 

[srpt]

I can't connect to the svn right now for some reason so if you want you can do these fixes yourself:

Great Lighthouse should obsolete with Astrolabe not Astronomy

Anatolia can be added to the Ptolemies broader regions. why do you think it should be split up?

 

[Mr.Kwast]

I think which is good add the city of Tarsos(controlled by the Ptolemies) near the city of Antiochia, because the Ptolemies haved this region(the Galatia) and this is a good form to show the ptolomies intentions in Asia Minor, at least it is a good form to put a new challenge to the Seleukid which with it will be a problem about fight with two fronts with the Ptolomey(in the case of the Seleukid, they have MANY fronts-historically talking-to fight for their maintence)!

 

[Sitalkas]

aaah, and a historical city too!

+1 to Mr.Kwast

 

[Mr.Kwast]

Please,please,PLEASE, make a new python for the hellenic religion building(it's so strange the jewish sinagoge in the place of the greek temple), i think which the skin of the religion building of the Rome Total war is be usefull(the monastery = pagan Temple, reliquiary = shrine, Cathedral = awsome Temple and the temple = Large Temple).
I think which is be good add new hellenic(christian too) wonders like "The Capitol" to the romans.
Is be good add the city of Rhodos to put the Colossus, it is so strange you build it in the campaing map!

 

[srpt]

yes Rhodes are Tarsos were both in originally. I took them out because they made the map really crowded. I'm sure many would disagree about putting them back in. personally I could go either way.

building art is not my best skill so its down on the priority list, but I'll get to it eventually.

 

[CrossRFC]

I would split Anatolia into at least 2 different regions because Anatolia is the buffer zone between western and near-eastern civs, so some civs have stronger claims on one side of it over the other. For example, Asia Minor could be a Byzantine core province, whereas the eastern half (assuming division into 2 provinces) would only be contested as it could be threatened by the Sassanids, the Arabs, the Armenians, etc.

 

[srpt]

the Antigonids have been added to the SVN

 

[Proman]

I Think that the mod should have a raw material-finalized good mechanics, (Ex: You have silk, then you build a factory and you got cloth) this would be innovative, but would take time, and the mod is not done yet. But that's my idea.

The turns should be 1 Years per turn! The mod would have more than 1000 Turns i know. But it would make the mod more interesting, and would give more time.

 

[merijn_v1]

AFAIK, it's not very hard to make a bonus a requirement for buildings. IIRC, it's possible without coding the DLL. Only adding the bonus requirement in the XML is enough.

I don't think the standard gamespeed should be 1 year/turn. However, I don't see any problem if it a different gamespeed.

 

[Sitalkas]

trying the Antigonids atm ! looking fun!

 

[CrossRFC]

Will try out the Antigonids and see how the successors balance out.

Oh, and it's time I make that post about my complaints in regards to Carthage:
1) Taking Roma itself usually consists of jumping on the city when the AI removes most of its garrison from Italy.
2) New Carthage in Spain direly needs a production ressource
3) The Roman stack should probably spawn in Italy against a human Carthage, to avoid issue #1. The Roman AI usually uses Italian troops to attack Marseilles and then to move into Spain, so it is still quite effective.
4) In response to #3, Rome should get free galleys the first two times its navy is destroyed. Or maybe once every X turns. This represents Rome's tenacity in its naval war against Carthage.

 

[srpt]

the Antigonids are not balanced yet btw.

re 1. there is supposed to be a unit spawn in Rome when you declare war on them if Rome is lightly defended. you should see the message "the Romans have raised new legions"

2 agreed. I will give them something

 

[CrossRFC]

Antigonid UB idea:
Observatory is replaced with philosophical academy (bigger science bonus, or a culture bonus added).

Antigonid UP idea:
Greek Monarchy: starts with bureaucracy (instead of Tyranny).

This reflects the fact the Antigonid kings allowed councils and assemblies to help make decisions, in contrast to the other deified Seleucids and Ptolemies.

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My severely overextended Antigonid empire. Seleucid army was busy in the East for some reason, and I got peace before the 7-stack of hoplites, elephants and spearmen got to my borders. Ptolemaic army was attacking the Seleucids through the desert next to Jerusalem.

Spoiler :

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Perhaps Sinope should be made independant from start (Pontus).

Further update: I discovered monarchy first, but the "7 world wonders" UHV fired. Some wires got crossed there I think.

Another comment as I go: why does the peltast upgrade to a heavy spearman? I don't have access to my very useful UU as soon as I get military drill.

Also the subjugation UHV failed despite both conditions checking true the turn before 100 BC, in a weird way:
Strangely, the condition checked true on 100BC and I got a golden age from it, but then the condition checked false the turn after.

Yeah, the UHV needs revision somewhere because I went from 2/3 to 0/3. Also, does the "wonders" UHV check for religious wonders like the Statue of Zeus?

And there really should be a sheep ressource in the mountains north-west of Pella, as the greek mountain dwellers were known to raise sheep. This will make Pella, the capital of the Macedonian empire, more appealing. Maybe copper in the hills north-east of Pella, to provide Macedon with metal that is not anywhere to be found in Thrace or Greece, since I'm guessing you'll confine the Antigonids to that are circa 230s BC.

 

[Sitalkas]

that UHV cross-checking happened to me aswell !

Seleucids were busy too in the east, so I conquered easily Aleppo and Damascus . Then I attacked the ptolemys with every aggresive unit I had + mercs, and conquered em. Finally i moved all my experienced army to Seleucia and conquered it. After 3-4 turns the Seleucids got it back but the very next turn they collapsed!

 

[srpt]

fixed the victory issue. I like those ideas for the UP. I was going to give them the Agora as a UB, market w science and culture.

if the conquering the Seleucids and Ptolemys goal is too easy, how can we make it harder? or is ok as is?

 

[CrossRFC]

Okay, sorry for the mega-edited post, I was commenting as I was playing and didn't check for new posts.

The problem with the conquest UHVs for the successors is that I can't be too easy for the player as any one of them, so buffing one helps that civ, so we buff the others, etc which turns into this arms race of giving extra units and stuff.

Maybe the AI successors get a more military at start? Because they direly need it.


In general, many of the civs that are intended to die, i.e. Successors, Bactria, Parthians, Celts can very easily become powerhouses that become unstoppable empires. It would be really cool if my situation as these civs felt hopeless, and that sheer survival should be an achievement, kind of like Antioch in Sword of Islam. However, since the UHVs have to be completeable for the civs, their situations can't be that poor or you'd never get a UHV.

I think, like vanilla RFC and every RFC mod, too much care is put into the UHVs being completeable on most playthroughs. As an RFC player, missing a UHV causes me some grief, so I can understand why the games are balanced like that. But maybe the difficulty needs to be really ramped up, where UHV completion is some kind of great achievement, and most times the best you can do is stay alive.


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Province naming!

Northern Italy -> Cisalpine Gaul
Southern Gaul -> Transalpine Gaul