RFC Classical World

[CrossRFC]

@srpt
About Kalinga:
What we do know is that it existed before or around 320 BC and was conquered by the Mauryans. We can derive some kind of UHV from that, I guess. We can also derive a UHV from Kharavela's empire.

We could stick a maritime goal, or UB, in there, for flavour and maybe as the "what if" UHV.

Edit: Jainism could factor into UHV/UB as well.

 

[srpt]

Kalinga already has a UB. I just changed it a little. I gave it +1 happiness and changed the name from Jain Library to Agama Library. Agamas are Jain scriptures.

they also already have 3 UHVs: acquire horses, produce 2 great generals and 2 great priests and build 7 Jain buildings (yes the UB counts)

 

[CrossRFC]

Oh, didn't know they got a UB and UHVs yet. Those seem pretty solid at first glance.

Edit: do you mean they're in game? Because I don't see any UHVs or distinct UB for Kalinka. Never mind. They're in-game but not in the civ selection screen.

The Library UB, while it has the bonus, is still just called "Library" though.

@srpt: still getting the death-stacks of Sungan units near Varanasi, Bhodgaya and Pataliputra when the Mauryans/Sungas die. I, the human player, control those cities. The respawn occurs the turn after they are defeated. Also every new turn the stacks spawn again.

 

[Cetrix]

There are some issues with Pontus 2nd UHV :
- Goal failed around 250BC...
- 1/7 regions at start but there is the green thingy to say it's OK.

And an idea for Galatian celts : an AI celt-civ city spawns in 270BC in Galatia (Cappadocia region), or a barbarian/indy one. At war with seleucids, if possible.

 

[CrossRFC]

Kalinka UHV 1 (horses) quite doable, but not a cake-walk. Requires defeating Mauryans. Kalinka UHV 2's prophet goal is doable by turning Pataliputra into a priest-spammer and using a golden age to speed up GP points. However, the GG goal seems unnecessarily hard: despite conquering the Mauryan's Gangetic lands, I'm only at 24/30 GG points in 150 BC. Perhaps I haven't been farming enough experience fighting the Satavahanas.

Edit: Was XP from fighting barbarians supposed to factor into GG points or not?

 

[srpt]

sorry about the Sungas. it should be fixed now. the respawn will now only happen once and will not happen at all if someone controls the province of Magadha or if someone who is stable just owns a city in it.

 

[srpt]

I always thought GG points came from xp. in the military advisor on the GG counter it says xp. so what I did was raise the cap for xp from barbs. you're right though they do come slowly. I guess I will lower the threshold a bit.

the Byzantines get a huge piety boost when they flip the Roman cities and I don't know why. they have no religious buildings and a lot of foreign religions.

 

[CrossRFC]

Well, if I get, say, 2 xp from killing a barb, it does not affect the GG counter, oddly enough. Sadly barbarians are my main source of xp, so it hurts my GG acquire rate.

 

[srpt]

ok I will look into that

fixed the problem causing Kalinka's info not showing up in the starting screen

and the 2nd Pontic goal (moved the date to test it and forgot to put it back)

 

[DC123456789]

Have you found a way to stop broader regions from showing up as border provinces on the in-game stability overlay?

 

[srpt]

sorry DC123456789 when you asked about that issue in the past I was never quite sure what you meant, but its fixed now. broader regions are completely out, since they no longer had any effect.

barbarian xp now does contribute to GG points, but the xp cap from barbs is back to 10.

 

[Tigranes]

As you have increased the output of regular specialists I would suggest increasing yields by settled great specialists.

Would it be too hard to make Spies to return to the nearest city?

Is it possible for Byzantium to flip ANY West Roman unit wandering in flipping provinces? There were many nice Workers in the Eastern part of Roman Empire upon my spawn, they might be very nice to have Also West Romans founded Ankira right when the rest of the cities flipped to me, so we had a funny situation of West Roman enklave in Eastern Empire

Couple of notes about starting situation at 220 AD: Rome starts with Hellenic temple but without Hellenism -- one can argue that Roman religion was essentially Hellenistic... Also Chersones geographically belongs to one tile south of its current placement..

I found a very great map about Roman empire around 220 AD. Perhaps we could adjust cities accordingly and name Legions for additional late game flavor?

 

[srpt]

Would it be too hard to make Spies to return to the nearest city?

if you mean after secret diplomacy or bribing/hiring barbarians yes it could be quite challenging. my spy abilities are purely python and totally different in coding from the regular ones. mine aren't MISSIONS, they're just python buttons. the AI has no idea they exist.

As you have increased the output of regular specialists I would suggest increasing yields by settled great specialists.

yes you're right

Is it possible for Byzantium to flip ANY West Roman unit wandering in flipping provinces?

the Byzantine flip is tricky. I'm glad it works at all. I'll try to make it flip everything.

added Hellenism to Rome in 220AD

the Byzantines piety now starts at 30 so the sainthood goal is challenging

removed some courthouses from some smaller eastern Roman cities in the 220AD map. the Byzantines economy is more challenging now but the Romans are unstable in 330AD and lose cities

 

[CrossRFC]

I don't think the Byzantines need to flip workers. They have an amazing amount of improved tiles and fully grown towns (from cottages). Having 5+ workers on top of that would make Byzantium too OP. You'll have to build workers yourself. Shouldn't be too hard since you start out with several size 8+ cities.

I found a very great map about Roman empire around 220 AD. Perhaps we could adjust cities accordingly and name Legions for additional late game flavor?

That's a good map.

 

[2phunkey4u]

Tocharian issue: only spread of Buddhism to Korean cities counted, not to Nan Yue cities in China (Han had collapsed and Shu would not ob). Not enough Korean cities in the end due to barb pressure and auto-spread to Buddhism after 1AD. Is Turpan supposed to be flipped? It got razed on my 2nd turn so...

 

[CrossRFC]

Two oddities with the 80 BC map:
1) Armenia does not appear to have a capital city.
2) I'd think Pontus should perhaps have Ankyra founded at (58,51), but then again, Pontus isn't playable from the 80 BC start and it might make things unnecessarily complicated for AI Rome.

Edit: If ever you need more wonder ideas:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_Gaul

Also, I don't see the Patronage civic getting much use. Perhaps a civic such as Polis Economy, reflecting Greco-Roman culture up until the Late Empire.

Edit 2: It is as I have feared. In 80 BC start, Armenia is usually not conquered due to its size, the Romans' lack of military power from start and the general pacifism and (surprisingly) poor military production of the Parthians.

A quick fix would probably be to give Rome its characteristic death stack, in Ephesus, war with Pontus and Armenia (if not done already), and add many improvements to Parthian lands to bolster their productive strength. A great merchant or two in Merv (a great trading city) would probably be a good boost. The Parthians also need more workers at start, because I see in the WB that they spend much time building workers.

 

[Sitalkas]

balance seems pretty much stable now. The Romans do OK, the Parthians too, there is a constant tension between the successors

But, before we continue in stabilizing mid and late game I think that it is the right time to introduce titles and any new world wonder, both capable of changing world balance

for titles I can come with 2 obvious ones,
- Pharaoh
- Shahanshah

maybe add some titles for controlling both Rome and Constantinople at the same time, or for controlling Alexander's empire. Brainstorming needed here


then some wonders that could help starting civs :

- Sun Tzu's Art of War
my favorite civ 3 world wonder, unfortunately it was written well before the starting date so we can pre-place it in a Chinese city and make it have a small boost to espionage or to settle a Great General in this city

- The Rosetta Stone (Free monument in every city)
Requires Hellenism
Build time halved with stone
obviousy with these parameters, the Ptolemaic kingdom will build it, just like in reality ! the purpose it to make them to last longer than the other Greek civs, since they start with dynastic cult, by keeping them happy and saving time from building monuments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone)

- Petra (+1 gold per working tile)
requires stone
the famous UNESCO site, though I am not sure which its bonus might be !

- Circus Maximus (-25% war )
requires Hellenism
requires Horses

- The Pantheon (+2 free priests in city which was built)
requires Hellenism
requires marble

I look forward to hearing everyone's opinions

 

[CrossRFC]

- The Rosetta Stone (Free monument in every city)
Requires Hellenism
Build time halved with stone
obviousy with these parameters, the Ptolemaic kingdom will build it, just like in reality ! the purpose it to make them to last longer than the other Greek civs, since they start with dynastic cult, by keeping them happy and saving time from building monuments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone)

Eh, the Rosetta Stone was nothing special in its day. A great deal of Ptolemaic monuments had writing in several languages, to be read by all subjects of the realm. What makes the Rosetta Stone special to us is that it survived to this day.

- Sun Tzu's Art of War
my favorite civ 3 world wonder, unfortunately it was written well before the starting date so we can pre-place it in a Chinese city and make it have a small boost to espionage or to settle a Great General in this city

That seems fine.

- Petra (+1 gold per working tile)
requires stone
the famous UNESCO site, though I am not sure which its bonus might be !

Petra was more a city than a "wonder". More problematic is the question of where we'd put it. Closest match is Jerusalem, which makes it a bit odd.

- Circus Maximus (-25% war )
requires Hellenism
requires Horses

Shouldn't require Hellenism (racing tracks were built by many cultures). War weariness bonus seems a little weak.

- The Pantheon (+2 free priests in city which was built)
requires Hellenism
requires marble

Isn't that what the Statue of Zeus/Parthenon is for?

 

[srpt]

added a palace to Artashat in the 80BC map

I will give the Romans more units in 80BC and perhaps they should start at war with Pontus and/or Armenia

in the Tocharian game, when did Han collapse? they should respawn if China is empty. I can also slow down the automatic spead of Buddhism in the case of a human Tocharian player.

I think Patronage will find its niche

moved Chersonesos 1 tile south

Titles and new wonders: I'm waiting to see if I can get the bigger AIs to survive on there own but if that fails than titles and wonders will be added. the problem with titles is coming up with balanced effects for all of them.

I have been working on the Byzantine start and so far only one roll has had Rome collapsed to core so its not bad. the Sassanid pressure is good too. in the last roll they had Antioch and Tarsus, cutting Eastern Rome in 2. Byzantium still won't flip the damn Roman workers.

idea to keep Rome & large Chinese civs from collapsing: national wonder, Triumphal Arch (or whatever name as long as its generic). requires 10 cities and grants immunity to stability checks from losing cities to barbs.

I was also thinking of giving that effect Trajan's Column and pre-placing it in Rome in 220AD.

overall I'm really happy that the balance is as good as it is. after all, the Seljuks, Timurids and Ottomans never (or rarely) conquer their historical empires in Sword of Islam and that mod is still enjoyable and immersive.

 

[srpt]

I was thinking of adding Petra as a city, if it could be placed somewhere where it wasn't too far from Jerusalem to be accurate and not too close to be a decent city. of course it would be small but have some luxuries.

as far as I can tell, all civs build swarms of workers no matter what. I've tried to prevent it. do the Parthians not do it as well?

I realise there are some towns in "illegal" spots on the 220AD map. I will move them.

I want to make the Byzantine economy more of a challenge at the start, but there is a lot of infrastructure in place to help the Romans. I may have to make the courthouses disappear on the flip via python or something.

edit: increased their inflation