RFC Classical World

[Tigranes]

So I found this fact:

During the Islamic conquest of Sassanid Persia (633-656), some 12,000 elite Persian troops converted to Islam and served later on during the wholescale invasion of the empire. During the Muslim conquest of Roman Syria (633-638) some 4,000 Greek Byzantine soldiers under their commander Joachim (later Abdullah Joachim) converted to Islam and served as regular troops in the conquest of both Anatolia and Egypt.

So probably some troops together with Damascus and Babylon could flip to Arabs, but no more! Lets fight for the rest! Damascus stack should spawn near Mecca as always in capital spot). If Damascus flips anyway your troops will reach Jerusalem by the time of the flip.

Omanis were among the first people to come in contact with and accept Islam. See that dark green lands on my map? This was the base at the time of the death of the Prophet. 4 cities for entire Arabia -- is not that much, things look completely empty on the East side of the Peninsula.

 

[DrZomboss]

I think you should copy the map to a non-C:/ folder first, for example your 'Downloads' or 'My documents' map. Editing and extracting files in the C:/-folder doesn't work for some reason I probably disagree with. Copy the mod somewhere else, let svn do its job and then copy it back to your mod-folder. Future updates can be downloaded into the C:/-map straight away but the first update has to be done from outside.

Thanks for the advice....but SAME ERROR when I've extracted to the 'MODS' folder in 'My Documents'!!!

 

[Wessel V1]

Are you sure name of the mod folder and the extracting path are correct? The check out should lead to the folder in My Documents, and to /RFC Classical World. Nothing more, nothing less. Else it won't work.

 

[Tigranes]

Reproducible C++ crash during the loading, but I crashed during the game right after autosave saved this file in between turns. It's from couple of revisions ago, but should not be connected with it, because it is Rome.

 

[DrZomboss]

Bugs & ideas:
1. Tocharian capital is called "City"
2. Samarqand didn't switch to Marakanda
3. "Alexandreia on the Indus" isn't a Greek name
4. Pattala didn't switch to Xylinepolis
5. Hecatompylos and Seleukeia still don't switch to Sad Darvazeh and Tisfun
6. Pataliputra didn't switch to Palibothra
7. Make Barbarian Petra at the start, as well as Gerrha
8. Add Portos Alexandreia (Karachi)
9. Pergamon can't be founded (the first Antigonid capital)
10. Add Pantikapaion on the CNM 1 N 1 E of Chersonesos
11. Charax was in reality 2 N 1 E of its current location
12. Make Pasargadae instead of Persepolis, because it has been razed by Alexander
13. Add Nysa 2 N 1-2 E of Hecatompylos
14. Add Alexandreia Prophtasia 2 S of Ariana
15. Add Sanchi 1 S 2 E of Ujjain
16. The correct spelling is "Bodhgaya", not "Bhodgaya"
17. Add Sagala 1 S 2 E of Taxila
18. Artashat still doesn't switch to Artaxata when captured by Greece or Rome
19. Syrakousai didn't switch to Syracusae
20. Still the starting TXT for the Parthians is "Mithridates of Parthia [...]"
21. The Pontus should use Greek names
22. In the 320 BC scenario Ancyra --> Ankyra

 

[DC123456789]

I think that a lot of the cities you want to add are simply too close to existing cities, so it probably wouldn't be a good idea gameplay-wise to add them. And there does seem to be problems with the city name manager right now (i.e. most of the bugs you said). As for Alexandreia on the Indus, it's the best we have right now, unless you have a better name...

 

[Swarbs]

So probably some troops together with Damascus and Babylon could flip to Arabs, but no more! Lets fight for the rest! Damascus stack should spawn near Mecca as always in capital spot). If Damascus flips anyway your troops will reach Jerusalem by the time of the flip.

I agree with you there. Maybe one additional change - in the 550AD scenario add a road from Jerusalem to Medina. That way the armies can move up a bit faster, as they did during the initial Arab invasion of Syria.

Omanis were among the first people to come in contact with and accept Islam. See that dark green lands on my map? This was the base at the time of the death of the Prophet. 4 cities for entire Arabia -- is not that much, things look completely empty on the East side of the Peninsula.

I agree that the Omani tribes were Islamic by the time of the Arab spawn in game. My only question is whether they were sufficiently organised enough to justify a whole city there. Before the Arab empire, Muscat was more of a fishing village than a city, certainly nowhere near as important as the cities on the western side of Arabia.

 

[DrZomboss]

I think that a lot of the cities you want to add are simply too close to existing cities, so it probably wouldn't be a good idea gameplay-wise to add them. And there does seem to be problems with the city name manager right now (i.e. most of the bugs you said). As for Alexandreia on the Indus, it's the best we have right now, unless you have a better name...

Well, the only thing I want is to add the cities I mentioned to the City Name Manager python file, because I was always annoyed that if you build a city wherever, it is called "City"... As for Alexandreia on the Indus, I've found a better name : Alexandreia tou Indou.

 

[Tigranes]

It is a little depressing to see Goguryeo with no UU and no UB, while they are so unique overall.

I am happy everyone ignored my Korean remark, because I confused oldest Gojoseon with later Gogureyo .

So ideas for Gojoseon UB and UU:

Dolmen tombs -- replacing Monument, doubling the effect of the latter (+4 culture). The largest concentration of dolmen in the world is found on the Korean peninsula. With an estimated 35,000 dolmen, Korea alone accounts for nearly 40% of the world’s total.

Chosŏn Horsemen -- replaces Horseman, does not require source of Horse, but builds twice faster if Horse is secured:

ancient kingdom also appears as a prosperous Bronze Age civilization, with a complex social structure, including a class of horse-riding warriors who contributed to the development of Gojoseon, particularly the northern expansion[8] into most of the Liaodong basin.

 

[Cetrix]

Rome, emperor difficulty.

It was a bloody struggle. A real nerve wracking with non stop barbarians harassing (they were close to fail my victory...). I won, but as usual, very close. It's balanced, good challenge.

By the way, the 3rd UHV says 120AD but it's 125AD.

 

[Brew]

@ srpt
Sorry, been away a while and just wanted to respond:

Spoiler :

the thing about Baghdad is that is was founded in 750 by the Abbassids and the focus of this mod is the Rashidun and Umayyad Caliphates. by 750 the UHVs should be nearly complete and the game almost over, so I'd rather represent the pre-750 situation than the post.

-I agree that representing the Abbasids is tough and perhaps not worth the trouble – I just actually thought the reason for the 830 end date was the end of the Abbasids. I discussed this with my Islamic History professor last semester and he was adamant that by 833 (the end of Al-Ma’mun’s reign) the Caliphate as a centralized Islamic state was defunct and was at that point an Iraqi state with only ideological authority. I didn’t even realize the Charlemagne connection! Anyhow, I’m sure it would be an incredible amount of work to do the garrison town thing just to deal with one region during the last 200 years of the game (or 80, in the case of Baghdad), so likely not worth the trouble.

-Ptolemies and Shi'ism

Spoiler :

-It seems like everyone’s still having trouble with the Ptolemies, so that is my only request (like this is an all-request radio show or something!). The ideas I’ve read—removing library requirement for the Great Library, or lowering the cost of some buildings (such as a library)—seem viable. I also noticed the point that the low barb pressure makes it harder to get slaves, and thus, perhaps makes the wonder goal even more difficult. I don’t know the answer on the barb one, but I think that getting more slaves would change the dynamic of the Egyptian game, hopefully for the better.

- I also want to point out that, as I understand it, Shi’ism as a distinct religious movement didn’t really exist until the mid to late 8th century, so I think adding it as a religion might not be worth it. It was more just a political movement until that time, so maybe it could be represented by rebellions in Khurasan or something (or the Kharijites, who were particularly militant).

- I can't help but weigh in on two disputes: island cities and the Great Library in 550 AD.

Spoiler :

-Island cities are actually beneficial. Without much international commerce, most cities receive 1 commerce per trade route. However, island cities give two, and establish trade routes with nearly all of your cities. So when I founded a city on Cyprus as Rome, for example, I effectively increased the commerce of every city by one, which was hugely beneficial given the dozens of cities I owned.

-The Great Library was mostly destroyed in the 5th century. As Crossphazer said, it would have been "somewhere between partially and completely destroyed by (550 AD)." The idea that the Arabs destroyed it is, as I understand it, a very old myth which has been discredited by historians.

-As always, thanks for the hard work – this non-computer savvy history nerd appreciates it (though I wish I could help)!

 

[Tigranes]

Rome, emperor difficulty.

It was a bloody struggle. A real nerve wracking with non stop barbarians harassing (they were close to fail my victory...). I won, but as usual, very close. It's balanced, good challenge.

By the way, the 3rd UHV says 120AD but it's 125AD.

On Monarch I got my 3rd UHV around 45 AD. My guess is that it has to be "by" not "in".

 

[Cetrix]

On Monarch I got my 3rd UHV around 45 AD. My guess is that it has to be "by" not "in".

Yes it's "by" but I meant "by 125AD" and not "in 120AD".

 

[Swarbs]

@ srpt
Sorry, been away a while and just wanted to respond:

Haven't seen the full debate here, but my two cents are that the Ptolemies are fairly easy. First thing to do is build a fishery in Alexandria, and an obelisk followed by library in Diaspolis. Build a couple of workshops for each city asap to get production up (one can be built on the fruit for Alex to get a two food two hammers tile). Use your starting stack to conquer Tyros then Jerusalem, and use those two to build work boats and soldiers whilst Alex and Diaspolis focus on the wonders. Use your settler to found a city in the Suez to get the copper, which will allow Tyros to build Galatians.

With the obelisk in Diaspolis you will get a GE soon after the library is finished, by which point Alexandria should be well on its way to the lighthouse. So use the GE to part rush the GL in Diaspolis and any slaves you have can be used in the city which is furthest behind. As long as you use workshops and quarry the stones to boost each city's production to 10-12 hammers you should finish both wonders in time. If you need more slaves, conquer Damascus or Tarsus with an army from Tyros.

I got both of the wonders around 200BC, with a fair few slaves to spare and having diverted a fair few hammers to military production in Diaspolis. I was playing on Emperor, so barbs were more numerous for slaves, but that in turn meant I needed to build more spears and javelins, and lost my quarry and workshop in Alexandria a couple of times.

 

[Cetrix]

Bug ? We don't get gold from piracy (blockade ports) so the Vandals UP is useless.
220AD scenario, I don't know if it's the same for the others.

 

[DrZomboss]

And I've never successfully bribed a barbarian (how can that be possible if we don't get EP's vs barbarians )

 

[Brew]

@ Swarbs

Thanks for the ideas. I kind of figured it could be done that way, but I'm a sucker for historical accuracy, and I can't bring myself to build the GL anywhere but Alexandria. My thing is that when I started playing RFC vanilla I was under the impression that the best way to win was to actually follow historical behavior as much as possible - like the game was designed that way. While this is obviously not the case, I've always felt the UHVs should be doable in this manner (ex. waiting until 1450 to conquer Constantinople in SOI). I've always been able to do it, especially since the UPs and UBs are ideally designed to assist the UHV (ex. great bombard in SOI, or Seleucid Great General UP in this mod). The UP and the UB are clearly designed this way for the Ptolemies, I just think a little tweaking will allow both wonders to be built in Alexandria. Or I could just get over my obsession with historicity. Thanks again though.

 

[DC123456789]

I'm sure it's perfectly possible to build both wonders in Alexandria, all you need is the Great Engineer from Diospolis (with the obelisk) and a bunch of slaves (I find that there will always a lot of barbarians to kill, even on Monarch). This also has the benefit of freeing up Diospolis for a lot of military production.

 

[Tigranes]

And I've never successfully bribed a barbarian (how can that be possible if we don't get EP's vs barbarians )

You can bribe them when they are in you cultural borders. Or you can ask them to leave. For spearman it costs 45 to hire and about 15 gold to ask them to leave. And no espionage needed -- actually you cannot bribe with espionage regular civs' units...

 

[Swarbs]

@ Swarbs

Thanks for the ideas. I kind of figured it could be done that way, but I'm a sucker for historical accuracy, and I can't bring myself to build the GL anywhere but Alexandria. My thing is that when I started playing RFC vanilla I was under the impression that the best way to win was to actually follow historical behavior as much as possible - like the game was designed that way. While this is obviously not the case, I've always felt the UHVs should be doable in this manner (ex. waiting until 1450 to conquer Constantinople in SOI). I've always been able to do it, especially since the UPs and UBs are ideally designed to assist the UHV (ex. great bombard in SOI, or Seleucid Great General UP in this mod). The UP and the UB are clearly designed this way for the Ptolemies, I just think a little tweaking will allow both wonders to be built in Alexandria. Or I could just get over my obsession with historicity. Thanks again though.

You could probably do it with Alexandria. Build workboats in Tyros for Alex's sea resources and use farms to get Alex to size 8, then put workshops on the wheat, the citrus, the grassland and both floodplains. That will give you production of 16 with the stone. Combine that with the GE and as many slaves as you can get and you should have enough to build the fishery, library and both wonders.

You can always gain slaves by sending spears and javelins wandering around the edge of the desert and picking off the barbs. Also Damascus, Tarsos, Athens and Pella are often lightly defended, and Athens and Pella, so conquering and enslaving them (just conquering Athens) should generate a huge amount of slaves. Diospolis and Tyros are both good production sites, so hook the copper up asap and Galatians can conquer and enslave most of the eastern Med.