RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

If you are building so many units, why don't you expand, i.e. conquer Burgundy. When I play with Burgundy,I always conquer the Franks fast. I don't know if I will be able to compete scientifically over the long run, but it helps initially.

I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about what the computer does. And in the long run, I don't think it helps - or at least not enough. I've done many Dutch games to see what the balance of power is in the long run, and Francia and Burgundy always remain painfully far behind in technology. I think a rough initial start is the main cause, because both have plenty of room to expand, and potentially conquer the other.
 
@3Miro.

Ah. That makes sense with the crash I was having. That means the terrain/resources defined in the latest Consts.py are also out of sync/date because I forgot to update that file.
 
well, those are not a problem for now. I was not using anything that involves resources, since I knew they would be redone. Anything that involves techs, units and buildings has to be in sync.
 
They are close enough to the Byzantines. Besides, we may change the UHV to "build any monasteries". Have you had problems obtaining Orthodoxy?
 
On independent cities:



I just had the opportunity to look at the updated map for the first time, and I'm kind of shocked by the number of independents at the initial spawn.

Just a reminder of basic principles:

-A city which is founded or in place on turn 1 will continue to grow for the entire game. It will also continue to accumulate culture for the entire game, or at least when it begins to accumulate culture. For a city like Athens or Rome or Alexandria, this is entirely appropriate. For a city like Kharkov or Ajacco, it is not.

-Keep in mind that it is possible to have independent cities spawn at various concrete dates. If it is essential that a civ flip a given city upon its spawn, have it show up a turn or two before then. In some cases, it may be advisable to have cities in place for longer periods of time, but we're likely to screw up the balance of things if we have many strong independents in place before any of the civs show up.

-Somehow, after worrying that the Byzantines had too many cities and were too powerful, we added more Byzantine cities. We should probably remove Rhodes as discussed and eliminate the town furthest NW.

-In some cases, spacing will be more important than absolute geographic accuracy. Some corrections to the Italian map have already been suggested; I'd suggest some major changes to the French map too. The city currently labeled Caen is on the wrong side of Paris - it's closer to Cherbourg. The actual Caen is in Normandy, W-NW of Paris. Toulouse should be moved two tiles east, and Nantes isn't coastal (although it might be better to keep it that way in order to represent the city's river port history and to keep the city from being considerably less useful).

-Freiburg isn't old enough to be in the initial spawn. I vote for Mainz, Worms, or Trier, all of which are older and more important.

-Graz, the Russian cities, and a couple of others are probably not old enough for initial inclusion.


I'll post a map tomorrow with resources updated, and possibly with independent city flags with dates.
 
On independent cities:



I just had the opportunity to look at the updated map for the first time, and I'm kind of shocked.

Just a reminder of basic principles:

-A city which is founded or in place on turn 1 will continue to grow for the entire game. It will also continue to accumulate culture for the entire game, or at least when it begins to accumulate culture. For a city like Athens or Rome or Alexandria, this is entirely appropriate. For a city like Kharkov or Ajacco, it is not.

-Keep in mind that it is possible to have independent cities spawn at various concrete dates. If it is essential that a civ flip a given city upon its spawn, have it show up a turn or two before then. In some cases, it may be advisable to have cities in place for longer periods of time, but we're likely to screw up the balance of things if we have many strong independents in place before any of the civs show up.

-Somehow, after worrying that the Byzantines had too many cities and were too powerful, we added more Byzantine cities. We should probably remove Rhodes as discussed and eliminate the town furthest NW.

-In some cases, spacing will be more important than absolute geographic accuracy. Some corrections to the Italian map have already been suggested; I'd suggest some major changes to the French map too. The city currently labeled Caen is on the wrong side of Paris - it's closer to Cherbourg. The actual Caen is in Normandy, W-NW of Paris. Toulouse should be moved two tiles east, and Nantes isn't coastal (although it might be better to keep it that way in order to represent the city's river port history and to keep the city from being considerably less useful).

-Freiburg isn't old enough to be in the initial spawn. I vote for Mainz, Worms, or Trier, all of which are older and more important.



I'll post a map tomorrow with resources updated, and possibly with independent city flags with dates.

I think Genoa is getting crowded out by the Independents.
 
I think Genoa is getting crowded out by the Independents.

There's nothing to stop Genoa from conquering Florence or Milan. I agree with st. lucjifers' main points but I should point out that I had Kharkov and Rostov spawning later. It was 3Miro who added a couple of early indies that I hadn't included. I do agree about Freiburg however. I had it as Basle, one tile to the west.I've also addressed the misplacement of some cities and suggested their correct locations in the bugs and fixes thread.
 
They are close enough to the Byzantines. Besides, we may change the UHV to "build any monasteries". Have you had problems obtaining Orthodoxy?

With no open borders with Bulgaria I didnt receive Orthodoxy by 1100 when I added a missionary , and 2 other cities became islamic
 
There's nothing to stop Genoa from conquering Florence or Milan. I agree with st. lucjifers' main points but I should point out that I had Kharkov and Rostov spawning later. It was 3Miro who added a couple of early indies that I hadn't included. I do agree about Freiburg however. I had it as Basle, one tile to the west.I've also addressed the misplacement of some cities and suggested their correct locations in the bugs and fixes thread.

I only followed your list, however, the list changed couple of times. Make a "finalized" list and post it somewhere to make sure we have no mistakes.
 
Just downloaded the last version of the mod, and tried to play as Venice.
1) How gosh can Venetians only found Cumae as second city (eg for the 1N-1NW square Chioggia could be a better name)?
2) Opened the Wordbuilder to take a look at the independents spread (and at other civs as well). And noticed that:
a) Burgudians have built Tours where actually Girona is. I don't think Catalunya should be a priority for Burgudian Settlers...:rolleyes:
b) Italy is crowded with Independents, compared to other world areas. I would prefer an Italy full of competitive nations. The trade between these nations was actually a reason why Italians were the first nation to enter Renaissance.
c) Aix-La-Chappelle would be a good Independent as well as Augsburg and perhaps Danzig, instead of Graz
d) What about adding an Independent in Scandinavia?
e) I don't know if what the picture shows is possible or a bug but it was something that really happened as I was waiting for my start year
 

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I only followed your list, however, the list changed couple of times. Make a "finalized" list and post it somewhere to make sure we have no mistakes.

I stand corrected. I forgot I had Kharkov and Kherson spawning in 500AD. Sorry too about the mix-up over coordinates. I posted earler with a some screenshots of proposed alterations (post 19, bugs and fixes thread). Did you see that? Anyway, Italy is fine now with where you put Milan. So if you could put Florence on the tile below the iron that would be perfect. I'll try to do a new list of what remains to be done. Hope I get the coordinates right this time.
 
I've finally had a chance to play a test game or two. Just thought I'd post a cute screen shot of the barbs building a huge long road out into the desert. Where is he going?



Ah yes, to Tripoli, where another diligent barb worker is building west. Also, I did not know barbs could get great people, but there was a barb great merchant wandering in the Sahara.

 

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micbic@ Danzig isn't an independent city? IMO that's a big miss, it was a very important city. Or maybe it's meant to be founded by Poland or Germany...

OT: Post 3,333 :dance:
 
OK then. Gdansk is in.
When does it spawn?
 
I just started a game as England, and France had actually founded a city in southern England before I spawned!



Either France needs a settler map for the area, or they should be absolutely forbidden from settling it.

Edit: Also, a site in lower Scotland north of the Corn on a Moor appears to not have a name in the English settler map. It should probably be Edinburgh.
 
OK then. Gdansk is in.
When does it spawn?

Its on the list to spawn in 800AD (Turn 76) but it'd probably flip to Poland when it spawns
in 970 AD. Is that about right?
 
Observations from playing my first game (as Burgundy)

-We may want to lower the bonus for mounted infantry against archers, or make them more expensive to build. I had no trouble conquering all of the independents in France, Barcelona, and Lombardy using only mounted infantry within the first 20-30 turns.
-As we have a number of food/health resources already, I'm going to suggest moving sheep into the luxury resource category to represent wool. They can still give a food bonus, but there are a lot of food bonuses on the map.
-Cities are growing big early, in part because there isn't a whole lot of other stuff to do with the food.
-There really isn't very much to build, particularly in the early game - and the fact that building culture, wealth, and research are available late makes it really tough for the early civs, as there's no way to use their production effectively - I ended up building and deleting units rather than continually expanding.
-We might consider moving open borders up a little earlier for stability's sake.
-The Norse are beginning to settle Scania - they had Kalmar and something else when the Polish spawned.
-While I encountered some stability issues, I never lost more than one city per turn to independence, with no full collapses.
 
Observations from playing my first game (as Burgundy)

-We may want to lower the bonus for mounted infantry against archers, or make them more expensive to build. I had no trouble conquering all of the independents in France, Barcelona, and Lombardy using only mounted infantry within the first 20-30 turns.
-As we have a number of food/health resources already, I'm going to suggest moving sheep into the luxury resource category to represent wool. They can still give a food bonus, but there are a lot of food bonuses on the map.
-Cities are growing big early, in part because there isn't a whole lot of other stuff to do with the food.
-There really isn't very much to build, particularly in the early game - and the fact that building culture, wealth, and research are available late makes it really tough for the early civs, as there's no way to use their production effectively - I ended up building and deleting units rather than continually expanding.
-We might consider moving open borders up a little earlier for stability's sake.
-The Norse are beginning to settle Scania - they had Kalmar and something else when the Polish spawned.
-While I encountered some stability issues, I never lost more than one city per turn to independence, with no full collapses.

A quick report on my game as the Norse. I loaded your WB save with the changes but I've got a couple of odd things happen. With WB I added Tonsberg as an indie and founded Aarhus. Turn 2 Tonsberg flips. But as I'm exploring with my galley I notice I can't enter ocean tiles. So much for the UP. It'll be impossible to do the UHVs without it. Then when I found my first city in England its called Birka. It should be Yorvik. It was the last time I played. And again the French have already founded a city south of London's spot.
What's going on?

EDIT I just tried it with the last test version before your changes. Its not your file that's the problem.
Something seems to have been lost in the last test release. Like the Norse UP for instance.
 
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