Re: Sweden The new addition to alpha 10 does not allow you to mine the sulphur near the swede's spawn, it requires machine tools now to remove the dense forest. Seeing as there is no sulphur on the coast of the north sea, it makes it very difficult for sweden to get sulphur. I would edit this either by changing the forest to woodland or inserting a pre-made mine on this tile. Btw, love the mod, you guys are doing great work. Thanks.
RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread
- Thread starter st.lucifer
- Start date
JediClemente
Prince
I think the only resource on dense forests should be timber. Otherwise it's like guaranteeing no one will get them.
BTW a different question: which is the limit for the number of cities?
from 10-12 cities up you get the 10% tech penalty?
and the instability penalty?
Could those be a bit higher than they are now? Esp. the tech penalty. I mean, start at more than the number of cities it is now. Or be less than 10%.
BTW a different question: which is the limit for the number of cities?
from 10-12 cities up you get the 10% tech penalty?
and the instability penalty?
Could those be a bit higher than they are now? Esp. the tech penalty. I mean, start at more than the number of cities it is now. Or be less than 10%.
3Miro
Deity
Question: Someone mentioned loss of faith points due to the Reformation, but I cannot find the post. It is buried somewhere in the past.
Even if you do not join the Reformation (i.e. you do Counter-Reformation), Protestantism would spread to some random cities in your empire. You will lose faith because of that. So my question is: if just little bit of faith lost or faith is reset altogether (the first is feature the second, if true, is a bug).
Even if you do not join the Reformation (i.e. you do Counter-Reformation), Protestantism would spread to some random cities in your empire. You will lose faith because of that. So my question is: if just little bit of faith lost or faith is reset altogether (the first is feature the second, if true, is a bug).
fdgsgds
Mustard Enthusiast
As Poland, I didn't join it because I wanted to complete the UHV, and I lost all my faith points at 1500 A.D. It doesn't affect Orthodox Christian or Muslim nations faith points.
The number-of-cities-research-penalty is ridiculous. It makes small nations such as Venice always in the tech lead. There is no point to having a large empire. The number of cities to start to affect research should be atleast 18.
The number-of-cities-research-penalty is ridiculous. It makes small nations such as Venice always in the tech lead. There is no point to having a large empire. The number of cities to start to affect research should be atleast 18.
3Miro
Deity
I am at a loss. Genoa is pulling 400+ some gold per turn. It makes no sense to stockpile so much and it makes no sense that they are able to do that. Unless Genoa is running Theocracy or something and the AI has decided that beakers are not worth it due to the science penalty.
sedna17
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,091
I don't agree. I do not see that small nations invariably have a tech lead. In fact, I see the opposite, that large empires tend to super-powerful (unless they collapse). It is true that there are costs to having a large empire, but there are also benefits -- more resources, more cities, more troops, etc.
3Miro
Deity
Only Russia, Byzantium and Arabia (and maybe the Ottomans, if balanced well) can reach 18 cities. One can control all of Iberia or the Balkans with 10 - 14 cities. France and England do not allow land for more than that, so unless you are an absolute warmonger you will not get 18 cities.
Think of the Tech penalty as just extra maintenance. That is the entire effect of it, unless you have very underdeveloped cities 10 would always beat 4. Besides the penalty doesn't instantly kick in with full force, it scales with the number of cities, i.e. 15 is small penalty, 16 is slightly more and only around 18 does it start to get huge.
3Miro
Deity
Bug found and fixed for the next version. Sorry for the ruined experience.
Panopticon
Utilitarian
Reset from >10 to zero in my game; one city gained Protestantism. Good to hear it's fixed.
Opera
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2008
- Messages
- 4,643
Well, I'm not too demanding as a player. I'm fine with superpowers, history, a-history, whatever. I only ask for variation. In that, Moscow/Kiev is good, since it hasn't always the same development; well, I never saw Moscow collapse yet, but still.
You don't have to do a mod everyone will 'agree' with; the point is being fun. And, for now, I think central Europe isn't. I'm not sure how to change that while keeping it historical since I'm not knowledgeable about history... What I'd say is give the Norse an incentive to settle in Scotland, increase the Germany/Poland, Germany/France, Germany/Austria friction, perhaps even add a new german faction spawning in northern Germany (but I know adding a civ is complicated), give Venezia more enemies and more chance of being beaten (Venezia itself is REALLY hard to conquer).
This is a good point. I have seen many french and burgundian armies wandering on the hills east of Venice for decades, Because the AI doesn't seem to understand that the city is unaccessible by land. I totally understand why you have made Venice that way, but that only makes it impossible to conquer by AI. It is fairly easily conquered by a human player after researching Chivalry. Therefore, making Venice unreachable by land only makes things harder for the AI.
Opera
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2008
- Messages
- 4,643
Plus it is already quite easily defended thanks to river-crossing or amphibious landing... And it usually has lots of troops in it.
Only problem I'd see is that removing the mud will give them two more good plots to work and they're already very strong.
Only problem I'd see is that removing the mud will give them two more good plots to work and they're already very strong.
Krschtschn
Ananassafttrinker
Isn't it possible to remove one mud and leave the plot as a marsh? Venecia would get a 1
1
tile, but it would be accessible by land.
Concerning central Europe: I think that germany is to timid. As i understand it, is germany supposed to represent the HRE, but it looks more like the federal republik. The AI ignores northern Italy and Burgundy and doesn't mind Austria and Poland biting pieces off its eastern border. There is some perfectly good conflict potential going to waste.
The same goes for Austria that is just to friendly with Hungary. It rarely see it conquering Hungary or at least parts of it. (Maybe Austria is to weak?)
1 tile, but it would be accessible by land.Concerning central Europe: I think that germany is to timid. As i understand it, is germany supposed to represent the HRE, but it looks more like the federal republik. The AI ignores northern Italy and Burgundy and doesn't mind Austria and Poland biting pieces off its eastern border. There is some perfectly good conflict potential going to waste.
The same goes for Austria that is just to friendly with Hungary. It rarely see it conquering Hungary or at least parts of it. (Maybe Austria is to weak?)
Panopticon
Utilitarian
Hungary. 2/3 UHV. Forgot that "No Ottomans in Europe" UHV goal was due by early 16th century, not late 16th century; too late to do much about it by the time I remembered. The other goals are trivial. Golden Bull is feasible by 1300s, and there's no competition for the land west and north of the Carpathians, which brings you most of the way to the size of Spain or France by 1490.
Poland should be pushing south to the Carpathians. They declared a phony war on me once, which let me get some of their land. Nobody else wanted a fight.
Poland should be pushing south to the Carpathians. They declared a phony war on me once, which let me get some of their land. Nobody else wanted a fight.
I am finally getting the hang of this thing. Found out that starting slow/steady yields much better results long-term .. the action packed Arabian/Moscow starts had me convinced that faster was better 
Just finished a Bulgarian run .. way too easy. Konniks combined with spawning just before Byzantium gets crossbows you can usually grab the capital in the first 2-3 turns and then just wait for the collapse before cleaning up.
Got the reformation in 1280 I think, was tech leader with practically all wonders except a few catholic ones. By the time the Ottomans came around I had Muskets everywhere and huge stacks of knights.
Tried Hungary before I realised the Ottoman spawn had changed so aborted when I saw the stack of doom they had. Easy sailing otherwise, good thing is that the land allows for every conceivable strategy be it cottage, specialist or "normal".
Reformation in around 1300's with all neighbours as vassals, not a single war fought. Will run again and prepare properly for the Ottoman spawn.
Finally succeeded as Germany. Never could get that 3rd vassal (at least not one that survived long enough). Cottages with free peasants is huge! Took a while to find the city sites due to lack of food, but some initial farming handled most issues (snag Amsterdam ASAP, great site until Berlin can be had).
Burgundy vassalized after 100 years, poor guys are trapped between a rock and a hard place, nurtured them to a 5th place in score .. they became a real boy \o/. Portugal and Venice both vassalized after failed wars against Byzantium.
Someone was cranking units like crazy and I had to stop a few of my 9 wonder cities to keep up .. most annoying
Currently doing a Norse. Old trick of sending boat straight to Mediterranean still valid, this time just with Beserkers. Palermo is a god send.
Raze Marseilles, Toulouse, Bordeaux, Lubeck and the two UK sites for a head-start on the UHV criteria that might prove to be a bother
PS: Remember to crank out Beserkers like mad before going for Civil Service. Maces+Amphibious = ouchie!
Notes:
Venice is unbelievably strong. They out-tech everyone and consistently rank 1-2, especially if they get of their asses and expand.
Genoa settles one island and sometimes takes one of the UHV cities .. then he turtles. Seems that both the Italian's are lacking a bit on the expansion front.
Austria/Hungary/Poland are doing nothing. They vassalize to each other once in a while but no major land shifts at all, doesn't seem right.
Germany has an above average chance of survival now. When they do they become a serious contender so good stuff I think .. perhaps a little more friction with neighbours as mentioned.
Iberia is beautiful. Conflict, vassals, drama! If Portugal actually settled some islands and Cordoba didn't collapse when hit with a breeze from the wrong direction it would be perfect
Kiev can be bad-ass. the UHV a walk in the park. Not sure what to do to make it more challenging .. perhaps add 4 coastal cities as requirement or something. The land they possess is beyond godly and the UP is just "why bother farming"
AI messes up hard to pave way for Moscow after cultivating area though, so that is good.
Still haven't managed to get anywhere with England. Flips are overrun by French and the lack of rivers makes for a very, very slow start until Guilds can be researched. Any tips as to city placement?
That's all for now.
Just finished a Bulgarian run .. way too easy. Konniks combined with spawning just before Byzantium gets crossbows you can usually grab the capital in the first 2-3 turns and then just wait for the collapse before cleaning up.
Got the reformation in 1280 I think, was tech leader with practically all wonders except a few catholic ones. By the time the Ottomans came around I had Muskets everywhere and huge stacks of knights.
Tried Hungary before I realised the Ottoman spawn had changed so aborted when I saw the stack of doom they had. Easy sailing otherwise, good thing is that the land allows for every conceivable strategy be it cottage, specialist or "normal".
Reformation in around 1300's with all neighbours as vassals, not a single war fought. Will run again and prepare properly for the Ottoman spawn.
Finally succeeded as Germany. Never could get that 3rd vassal (at least not one that survived long enough). Cottages with free peasants is huge! Took a while to find the city sites due to lack of food, but some initial farming handled most issues (snag Amsterdam ASAP, great site until Berlin can be had).
Burgundy vassalized after 100 years, poor guys are trapped between a rock and a hard place, nurtured them to a 5th place in score .. they became a real boy \o/. Portugal and Venice both vassalized after failed wars against Byzantium.
Someone was cranking units like crazy and I had to stop a few of my 9 wonder cities to keep up .. most annoying
Currently doing a Norse. Old trick of sending boat straight to Mediterranean still valid, this time just with Beserkers. Palermo is a god send.
Raze Marseilles, Toulouse, Bordeaux, Lubeck and the two UK sites for a head-start on the UHV criteria that might prove to be a bother
PS: Remember to crank out Beserkers like mad before going for Civil Service. Maces+Amphibious = ouchie!
Notes:
Venice is unbelievably strong. They out-tech everyone and consistently rank 1-2, especially if they get of their asses and expand.
Genoa settles one island and sometimes takes one of the UHV cities .. then he turtles. Seems that both the Italian's are lacking a bit on the expansion front.
Austria/Hungary/Poland are doing nothing. They vassalize to each other once in a while but no major land shifts at all, doesn't seem right.
Germany has an above average chance of survival now. When they do they become a serious contender so good stuff I think .. perhaps a little more friction with neighbours as mentioned.
Iberia is beautiful. Conflict, vassals, drama! If Portugal actually settled some islands and Cordoba didn't collapse when hit with a breeze from the wrong direction it would be perfect
Kiev can be bad-ass. the UHV a walk in the park. Not sure what to do to make it more challenging .. perhaps add 4 coastal cities as requirement or something. The land they possess is beyond godly and the UP is just "why bother farming"
AI messes up hard to pave way for Moscow after cultivating area though, so that is good.Still haven't managed to get anywhere with England. Flips are overrun by French and the lack of rivers makes for a very, very slow start until Guilds can be researched. Any tips as to city placement?
That's all for now.
Panopticon
Utilitarian
There is enough land in Central Europe for everyone to expand without war:
- the Poles have the Baltic and Galicia
- the Hungarians have Transylvania and the Northern Carpathian region
- the Austrians have the north Balkans and south Germany
- the Germans have Prussia
- the Venetians have the Adriatic; they are also good at picking off random cities, perhaps due to buying lots of crusades
- it takes a long time for the Poles or Hungarians to abut Muscovy or Kiev
So there is not a lot of conflict east of the Iron Curtain until maybe the final 300 years of the game.
- the Poles have the Baltic and Galicia
- the Hungarians have Transylvania and the Northern Carpathian region
- the Austrians have the north Balkans and south Germany
- the Germans have Prussia
- the Venetians have the Adriatic; they are also good at picking off random cities, perhaps due to buying lots of crusades
- it takes a long time for the Poles or Hungarians to abut Muscovy or Kiev
So there is not a lot of conflict east of the Iron Curtain until maybe the final 300 years of the game.
JediClemente
Prince
I'm not proposing changing the tech penalty much, just a little... because as the player you will surely try to have a larger empire than it was possible in RFC. There is considerably much more land in RFCE. Or at least you don't have to go to a remote continent abroad for it.
BTW Venice's tech rate is just crazy. Something must be done to prevent that. They have few cities yet still are always the most advanced.
I'm okay with Venezia's being unconquerable by the AI. Even as the player, it'll give you a hard time if a lot of troops stay there (they usually do).
And the tech rates in general are much faster. Perhaps some Low Middle Ages techs could get a few more beakers? Just so I don't see astronomy discovered by the 1300s...
I think there is a problem with the Crusades now, having the Seljuks collapse Arabia easily. So, the crusades' dynamics have changed. There are few if any.
Edit: refering to the post before this one: the civs seem too peaceful in general. I don't know if that is related to the warmaps or what. Also, later civs like Ottomans and Moscow need to be more advanced at start, so they really have a chance to accomplish anything. I've seen Ottomans rally to Bulgaria with a huge army of... macemen.
BTW Venice's tech rate is just crazy. Something must be done to prevent that. They have few cities yet still are always the most advanced.
I'm okay with Venezia's being unconquerable by the AI. Even as the player, it'll give you a hard time if a lot of troops stay there (they usually do).
And the tech rates in general are much faster. Perhaps some Low Middle Ages techs could get a few more beakers? Just so I don't see astronomy discovered by the 1300s...
I think there is a problem with the Crusades now, having the Seljuks collapse Arabia easily. So, the crusades' dynamics have changed. There are few if any.
Edit: refering to the post before this one: the civs seem too peaceful in general. I don't know if that is related to the warmaps or what. Also, later civs like Ottomans and Moscow need to be more advanced at start, so they really have a chance to accomplish anything. I've seen Ottomans rally to Bulgaria with a huge army of... macemen.
3Miro
Deity
The problem with Venice is the combination of Merchant Republic and Republic's +3 beakers per specialist. We should probably try to change that to Limited Monarchy + Merchant Republic, with perhaps lower stability penalty.
Panopticon
Utilitarian
Interesting game as the Ottomans that I am just starting now. Looking at WB, the only civs alive are England, France, Portugal, Byzantines, Norse, Genoa/Venice/Rome, Austria, Hungary and Poland. Maybe this is standard.
