3Miro
Deity
Yes the UU is fine. I will need to play couple of games with them to see about the UP.
RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread
- Thread starter st.lucifer
- Start date
Yes the UU is fine. I will need to play couple of games with them to see about the UP.
yogiebere
Civilization City Planner
yeah their UU is fine (im actually not really a fan of their UB...) but the UP should be changed.
It's true they won't get limited monarchy for some time (especially with them starting with such low science, maybe this is lessened with new tech) and steam engines after a long while, but a lot of the areas in england are currently plagued with moorland (all over) and marsh (ireland) so honestly the +1 pro for towns (and villages possibly) wouldn't be that overpowered until they get steam engines (im guessing around 15-16?). Remember london has no hills, wales has hills but no food (gotta windmill it) exeter has some hills but cant get a levee, etc...
When you look at it, there really aren't that many possible "super town spots" (town on river), i count about 12 in all of UK (ignoring wales) compared to germany or france which easily have 30+. Honestly they need that production boost (with the cottage to maintain science) to survive.
How about we try it with the next version? (and maybe consider removing some moorland!)
It's true they won't get limited monarchy for some time (especially with them starting with such low science, maybe this is lessened with new tech) and steam engines after a long while, but a lot of the areas in england are currently plagued with moorland (all over) and marsh (ireland) so honestly the +1 pro for towns (and villages possibly) wouldn't be that overpowered until they get steam engines (im guessing around 15-16?). Remember london has no hills, wales has hills but no food (gotta windmill it) exeter has some hills but cant get a levee, etc...
When you look at it, there really aren't that many possible "super town spots" (town on river), i count about 12 in all of UK (ignoring wales) compared to germany or france which easily have 30+. Honestly they need that production boost (with the cottage to maintain science) to survive.
How about we try it with the next version? (and maybe consider removing some moorland!)
Isn't it possible to attach "+1g on land tiles" to something like the Manor House?
It obsoletes with Divine Right which should come around at the time the push against France goes down so it would be applicable for the isles only more or less.
PS: The UU is god-like, don't change it: Extra first strikes, extra bonus against horse, upgrades to muskets and is historically relevant .. what more could you want
It obsoletes with Divine Right which should come around at the time the push against France goes down so it would be applicable for the isles only more or less.
PS: The UU is god-like, don't change it: Extra first strikes, extra bonus against horse, upgrades to muskets and is historically relevant .. what more could you want
merijn_v1
Black Belt
Isn't it possible to attach "+1g on land tiles" to something like the Manor House?
It obsoletes with Divine Right which should come around at the time the push against France goes down so it would be applicable for the isles only more or less.
PS: The UU is god-like, don't change it: Extra first strikes, extra bonus against horse, upgrades to muskets and is historically relevant .. what more could you want
It already produces +2
in the city. If we add extra 
or to every land tile, it would become way, way too powerful.3Miro
Deity
It already produces +2
Don't forget that Manorialis already gives +1
for Farms.+2
per city and +2 per Farm ... with the added specialists from the extra food. 
So you expect the AI/People to stay with that god awful civic using nothing but farms in the most happiness, health and production deprived part of the map? You'd get run over in a heartbeat by the healthy and happy cottage farms on the continent.
It is almost "first man to education wins" as it is so not sure adding a little more life to the obsoleted civics is a bad thing .. maybe just me
What about giving them the ability to leverage their superior production by making the Guildhall the UB and giving cities with it extra value of hammers when building science or gold?
Guilds/Merchants did more or less rule England (early Parliament) for the better part of the scope of the mod so would even be 'fairly' accurate historically.
It is almost "first man to education wins" as it is so not sure adding a little more life to the obsoleted civics is a bad thing .. maybe just me
What about giving them the ability to leverage their superior production by making the Guildhall the UB and giving cities with it extra value of hammers when building science or gold?
Guilds/Merchants did more or less rule England (early Parliament) for the better part of the scope of the mod so would even be 'fairly' accurate historically.
3Miro
Deity
So you expect the AI/People to stay with that god awful civic using nothing but farms in the most happiness, health and production deprived part of the map? You'd get run over in a heartbeat by the healthy and happy cottage farms on the continent.
It is almost "first man to education wins" as it is so not sure adding a little more life to the obsoleted civics is a bad thing .. maybe just me
What about giving them the ability to leverage their superior production by making the Guildhall the UB and giving cities with it extra value of hammers when building science or gold?
Guilds/Merchants did more or less rule England (early Parliament) for the better part of the scope of the mod so would even be 'fairly' accurate historically.
2 Cottages = 4 food about 8 commerce. 2 Farms = 6 food + 4 commerce + 2 hammers (from Serfdom) + 1 specialist, gold/beakers/Golden Age/Light-bulb. To that you can add the Manor House gold bonus, which in early game offsets the loss of trade route.
Furthermore, Plague kills towns, but not farms. Cottages are not nearly as powerful as in BtS.
Healthy and Happy inhabitants of the continent? Remember that England is supposed to conquer France, so for the most part you should be running on two Empires.
I am not saying we shouldn't change the UP, I haven't played a game with England yet, it is just that the math isn't adding up.
Guild as UB is definitely good. We need to change the British UB anyway. We can make it a Guildhall without health penalty, or Guildhall with extra free merchant (that may be OP), science or gold building bonus would be interesting too.
I also like the idea about changing their UB to Guild Hall. If the bonus shouldn't be a free merchant (which I'd favor, they need something OP currently to compensate imo)
or maybe 2 beakers, 2 gold added to the guild hall (maybe with apprenticeship?)
And please don't forget about small little Portugal
I quit the last game when it became too depressing..
They just suck in so many ways xD
merijn_v1
Black Belt
Just brainstorming for the new English UB:
A guildhall without
penalty and +10%
A guildhall without
penalty and +10%3Miro
Deity
Just brainstorming for the new English UB:
A guildhall without
No
means more 
which means more specialists. I don't know if we should go for the hammer bonus as well (OP?).Portugal is on the todo list (along with Lithuania and every other nation).
The place you're talking about isn't England
England: (excluding Scotland, Ireland & Normandy)
Health: 2x Cow, 2x Fish, 1x Clam, 1x Barley, 1x Deer
Happiness: 3x Sheep, 1x Dye
Production: 1x Stone, 1x Horse, 1x Iron, 2x Copper
Portugal: (excluding North Africa & Atlantic Islands)
Health: 1x Pig, 1x Fish, 1-2x Crab
Happiness: 1-2x Wine, 0-1x Honey (I'm not sure it's worth that extra city with 0 room)
Production: 1x Iron, 1x Horse, 1x Timber
Whale is also possibly available but comes late for one (Optics) and getting it is similar to the Honey situation.
England furthermore has a better chance at adding the resources from the excluded areas. (Scotland is usually barbs=autowin)
No
Portugal is on the todo list (along with Lithuania and every other nation).
No
would only equal to 1 food/city, not really much imonot even a bonus, just no penalty like others
3Miro
Deity
I thought Guildhall gives +2 , one is too little for a bonus.
Why are you excluding the Atlantic Islands and North-West Africa? You are supposed to settle there for the UHV anyway?
, one is too little for a bonus.Why are you excluding the Atlantic Islands and North-West Africa? You are supposed to settle there for the UHV anyway?
merijn_v1
Black Belt
No
Portugal is on the todo list (along with Lithuania and every other nation).
IIRC, England doesn't have much food to grow large. (Many tiles are hills, and the farm-able tiles don't have a river, so you'll have to wait quite some time to farm them) But they have a huge production. So the extra production isn't very good indeed.
I thought Guildhall gives +2
Why are you excluding the Atlantic Islands and North-West Africa? You are supposed to settle there for the UHV anyway?
Because they aren't something you have from the start, you need to get past Cordoba and build several cities.
England gets even more if you add Scotland and Normandy which they pretty much have from the start.
If I had added those areas, I'd have to add France's resources to England (it's their UHV too)
It was supposed to be a comparision of the starting situation more or less
it's just that imo England isn't the worst place in the world concidering the terrain
I don't even find the moorland to be negative, it gives good production..
Scotland/Wales are a bit low on food but I think that's somewhat fitting
And Edinburgh is pretty ok imo.
all buildings except the Textile Mill give 1
(those that do add )3Miro
Deity
For starting situation England is definitely not the worst place. The Dutch are by far the worst, they only get about 10-15 land tiles and two cities may or may not flip to you.
In the hands of the Human, you should have all of France. In the hands of the AI, they don't seem too weak.
In the hands of the Human, you should have all of France. In the hands of the AI, they don't seem too weak.
yogiebere
Civilization City Planner
alright I suppose changing the UP would make them overpowered. I still think England would need a little boost. I propose that at least 5 moorland tiles be converted to grassland, especially with wales and england. Sure the human will do well enough once they conquer France but the human should be strong in nearly every civ. What I'm concerned about is a weak AI, and perhaps the moorland changes will give them that boost they need.
3Miro
Deity
Generate several Dutch starts (i.e. start with the Dutch and let the game autoplay). When you spawn, you can take a look at how weak England is.
Science Rules
Prince
I can confirm that both Venice and the Arabs begin the game with their first UHV declared "failed".
3Miro
Deity
Venice was found and fixed for the next version, however, are you sure about Arabia. I just started a game with Arabia and played 10 turns or so ... no problem
Similar threads
