I agree, but I still think that at least Abo should be added, and perhaps flip to the Swedish on spawn (correct me if I'm wrong), but having Abo flip to the Swedish, perhaps would make them more interested in expanding East.
RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread
- Thread starter st.lucifer
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I agree, but I still think that at least Abo should be added, and perhaps flip to the Swedish on spawn (correct me if I'm wrong), but having Abo flip to the Swedish, perhaps would make them more interested in expanding East.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
You have some point. I forgotten Abo is a city in Finland. I thought it also was a city in Sweden, so Sweden would have 3 preplaced cities. I thought that is too much. But a Abo is in Finland, it can be added too.
AbsintheRed
Deity
We will definitely consider adding a few indy cities in the area, as the swedish start is usually messed up because of the Norse AI's weird city placement
This will be improved with the new settler maps too, but still, 1 or 2 indy cities would probably be good.
On the other hand, we shouldn't go too far with this:
- Leave the player (both with norse and sweden) as much freedom as possible with city placement
- Don't mess up with the Norse UHV - it would be strange to pillage swedish (indy) cities for gaining Viking points
Yeah, shouldn't be more than two cities and preferably rather late'ish in case the AI actually does start settling mainland Sweden (50/50 as far as I have experienced).
Offhand I'd say Skara and Abo. Both because AI likes to conquer and then use as springboards for regular settling if allowed by settler map .. at least in the case of Skara which is frequently one of the cities the AI settles when he goes east.
Kalmar is good provided it comes no earlier than its founding (1100's) as it impedes on the viability of Lund which is one of my favourite early Viking cities (capital even more often than not
)
Offhand I'd say Skara and Abo. Both because AI likes to conquer and then use as springboards for regular settling if allowed by settler map .. at least in the case of Skara which is frequently one of the cities the AI settles when he goes east.
Kalmar is good provided it comes no earlier than its founding (1100's) as it impedes on the viability of Lund which is one of my favourite early Viking cities (capital even more often than not
)Out of curiosity, why havn't you guys thought of having corporations automatically founded, or spread around due to a number of factors like SoI? Personally I think the system works better that way, because its far more realistic and natural, then building merchants to spread around your corporation, it just sounds too modern IMO. I think an overhaul of the corporations should also be something to consider.
Talking about independent cities, I still think there should be independent cities in Wales and Scotland, to contest the English. That should be considered.
Talking about independent cities, I still think there should be independent cities in Wales and Scotland, to contest the English. That should be considered.
AbsintheRed
Deity
I would probably say Kalmar and Abo.
Neither of them spawns too early, and Abo in Finland is perfect
Neither of them spawns too early, and Abo in Finland is perfect
Cosmos1985
King
Think the first thing is an excellent suggestion, and agree about the second, but isn't there already 2 indy cities spawning in Scotland?
About Indies in Swe/Fin, Åbo it seems we can all agree on, I think Kalmar is a bad idea though, given the current map. It's too close to Lund, and wouldn't it just get conqured by the Norse (which we have as DK/Norway) way to often? It should of course flip to Sweden on spawn, but... I think Uppsala is a better idea - "Has always been one of the most significant cities in Sweden, still is. Oldest university in the Nordic countries. Has a wonder associated with it. If you want one city to represent Sweden pre 1250, this is it. (Morholt)" - that really says it all.
Maybe it could be moved 1N compared to the suggestion from Morholt, would give a bit more room for Stockholm, and it wouldn't be THAT.. bad, geographicly. We've got worse cities placed in Vanilla than that
But what is our plan with the Shrine-wonder then? Supposed to be autobuilt in Uppsala by a certain date, if Norse or noone else has build it by then?
AbsintheRed
Deity
It's a good suggestion, but would be hard to implement in RFCE, and would be very strange for some of the Corporations we have here.
About Indies in Swe/Fin, Åbo it seems we can all agree on, I think Kalmar is a bad idea though, given the current map. It's too close to Lund, and wouldn't it just get conqured by the Norse (which we have as DK/Norway) way to often? It should of course flip to Sweden on spawn, but... I think Uppsala is a better idea - "Has always been one of the most significant cities in Sweden, still is. Oldest university in the Nordic countries. Has a wonder associated with it. If you want one city to represent Sweden pre 1250, this is it. (Morholt)" - that really says it all.
Maybe it could be moved 1N compared to the suggestion from Morholt, would give a bit more room for Stockholm, and it wouldn't be THAT.. bad, geographicly. We've got worse cities placed in Vanilla than that
Uppsala is great, the city spot is bad. Moving 1 tile north is an idea, but I'm not sure we should do it
Kalmar is too close to the Norse starting point, so yeah, maybe it's not a good idea either
Everyone seems to agree on Abo, so it's a sure thing
Many wonders have their actual cities in the mod, but neither of them work this way
rock_star
Warlord
Awesome list. The Norse often settle one or two of those for me, but I insist on building Uppsala and Kalmar to make sure I have the old city representation (and, as I said earlier, my family is from Kalmar, so I simply MUST see that city for my game to feel complete 
), with Malmö and Göteborg to represent Modern Sweden (Göteborg competes too much with Roskilde, but I build it anyhow to make a more complete-feeling empire). I completely forgot about Åbo, though, as Helsingfors is my "mandatory" Finnish city.I always see Sweden expand into Finland in my games, but from comments here, that may just be me. If it's truly a problem, then adding a city like Åbo and designating it to flip would be great. I agree we shouldn't put the game too firmly on rails, but at the same time, we also need to guide the AI to do what the actual civ achieved.
(Also - should Åbo should be called Turku when founded, then change to Åbo when flipping/conquered? It might be a minor thing, but I'm sure Finnish players would love to see Finnish representation, even if it is only in a non-Swedish name. Of course, if the conditional UU/merc system is added, the Hakkapeliitta would also be a great way of representing them, as well, but that's another topic.
)Also - what is the background music for the Swedish leaderheads? It's not the Swedish national anthem - is it something else relevant like a royal anthem?
Cosmos1985
King
TheTurk - or somebody else, for that matter - can you please elaborate on which factors contribute to the corps spreading in SoI? Can we make a meaningful "conversion" of that to RFC:E, or do something similar?
Uppsala - even 1N - isn't a great city spot, but could maybe get an extra cattle or something? And 1/2 other "native resources", whatever makes sense?
About the Shrine, yeah, you're right, I was just thinking that it could make sense if we go through with our considerations of giving it a "pagan +" -effect. Then you could choose between going for it, the city, or not bothering, if you want to go Christian anyway. I don't know, maybe it's a bad idea, I just like having the wonders where they are supposed to be, at least a chance for it, and if Uppsala is on the map, and there is a Shrine of Uppsale, but Uppsala is indy, then we would never see it there. Just like Stonehenge in Vanilla, when there even are no cities in Britain... that makes me die a little bit inside
Uppsala - even 1N - isn't a great city spot, but could maybe get an extra cattle or something? And 1/2 other "native resources", whatever makes sense?
About the Shrine, yeah, you're right, I was just thinking that it could make sense if we go through with our considerations of giving it a "pagan +" -effect. Then you could choose between going for it, the city, or not bothering, if you want to go Christian anyway. I don't know, maybe it's a bad idea, I just like having the wonders where they are supposed to be, at least a chance for it, and if Uppsala is on the map, and there is a Shrine of Uppsale, but Uppsala is indy, then we would never see it there. Just like Stonehenge in Vanilla, when there even are no cities in Britain... that makes me die a little bit inside
Morholt
Prince
(Also - should Åbo should be called Turku when founded, then change to Åbo when flipping/conquered? It might be a minor thing, but I'm sure Finnish players would love to see Finnish representation, even if it is only in a non-Swedish name. Of course, if the conditional UU/merc system is added, the Hakkapeliitta would also be a great way of representing them, as well, but that's another topic.
No, Åbo was originally founded by Swedes during the Swedish crusades aka conquest of Finland to "Swedify" the new provinces. When it spawns it represents this original Swedish conquest.
There were of course Finnish towns at the time as well but records are very poor (mostly from the Novgorod chronicles). The only entirely Finnish town from the era I know about is Vanaja, where Häämenlinna/Tavastehus is today. It's in a pretty terrible spot though, see attachment.
Attachments
AbsintheRed
Deity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcia_Carolus_Rex
(Charles XII also Carl of Sweden, Swedish: Karl XII, Latinized to Carolus Rex)
merijn_v1
Black Belt
Which tech should enable La Lanterna? I think it should be or Optics or Shipmaking. (Personally, I think Optics is most appropriate)
And what will be the new bonus for the Shrine of Uppsala. I think +1
for cities without a religion if you haven't a state religion is nice.
And what will be the new bonus for the Shrine of Uppsala. I think +1
for cities without a religion if you haven't a state religion is nice.
AbsintheRed
Deity
Which tech should enable La Lanterna? I think it should be or Optics or Shipmaking. (Personally, I think Optics is most appropriate)
And what will be the new bonus for the Shrine of Uppsala. I think +1
IMO Clockmaking or Optics
I like the Uppsala bonus, add that for now.
We can always improve it later if it's too weak
merijn_v1
Black Belt
I think it requires some python coding for the new bonus, which I can't do.
I have some problems with commiting. I hope I can commit my changes soon. The changes I made so far:
- New Art for Isabella
- Background for Vytautas button
- Removed unused wondermovie
- Added La Lanterna, including art, text, bonus, wondermovie (Please check if the python coding is right)
- Removed bonus from the Shrine of Uppsala (It has currently no bonus), production bonus changed from Gems to Amber
I didn't include the new art for Arabia and Russia yet. I'll do that this evening.
EDIT: I think I found the problem why I could commit.
AbsintheRed
Deity
I already changed that 2 days ago, but somehow my last commit appears strangely on the viewvc part of sourceforge
This was my last commit (svn revision 700): http://rfceurope.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/rfceurope?view=revision
AbsintheRed
Deity
For now give the wonder +1 culture in all cities (no matter if you are in paganism or have state religion), we can change this later
merijn_v1
Black Belt
That was indeed the problem. I din't know you made a revision. But now everythings is fine.
AbsintheRed
Deity
So you already commited your changes as revision 701?
I cannot see that somehow :/
I cannot see that somehow :/
