merijn_v1
Black Belt
Not yet. When I'm typing this post, I started the commitment a few seconds ago. I think it's fully uploaded in 1.5 hours or so. (The FPK files take years to upload.
)
RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread
- Thread starter st.lucifer
- Start date
Not yet. When I'm typing this post, I started the commitment a few seconds ago. I think it's fully uploaded in 1.5 hours or so. (The FPK files take years to upload.
)
rock_star
Warlord
Good call - the English wikipedia page mentions none of that. Min svenska är inte så bra, at least not yet, so trying to read the sv.wiki page is not happening without a dictionary handy. Interestingly enough, the Spanish wiki entry is informative, even more so than the English - according to the es.wiki page, the founding date for the city should be approximately 1229 - this is the date records begin from, and Finland seems to go by this date as she recently celebrated the city's dodransoctocentennial based on this year, but the city is believed to have been founded as early as 1150 as a mercantile settlement.
An early founding date could lead to further simulations of Northern Crusades, which is always fun to see happen (the Norse enjoy sending merc armies through the indy Baltic lands - I've seen them take Riga and Novgorod in several games).
AbsintheRed
Deity
Not yet. When I'm typing this post, I started the commitment a few seconds ago. I think it's fully uploaded in 1.5 hours or so. (The FPK files take years to upload.
Great, they are up
Checked the changes, everything seems fine
One minor thing: Why did you removed some of the strategy entries from the wonders.xml file?
The ViewVC part of sourceforge still doesn't work perfectly, I'm uploading another test commit to check it
Cool!
I'm happy you like my suggestions! As for Scotland, what I meant to say is that England should not flip Wales or Scotland, and that there should be independent cities in Scotland (2 cities max) and Wales (1 city). Currently the English build insignificant and bad cities in both of the regions, so having to force them to conquer and unite the British Isles, sounds a lot more interesting then having them unit all of England, Wales and Scotland in 2 turns
About Indies in Swe/Fin, Åbo it seems we can all agree on, I think Kalmar is a bad idea though, given the current map. It's too close to Lund, and wouldn't it just get conqured by the Norse (which we have as DK/Norway) way to often? It should of course flip to Sweden on spawn, but... I think Uppsala is a better idea - "Has always been one of the most significant cities in Sweden, still is. Oldest university in the Nordic countries. Has a wonder associated with it. If you want one city to represent Sweden pre 1250, this is it. (Morholt)" - that really says it all.
Maybe it could be moved 1N compared to the suggestion from Morholt, would give a bit more room for Stockholm, and it wouldn't be THAT.. bad, geographicly. We've got worse cities placed in Vanilla than that
Yes, Abo OR Turku (someone mentioned it), should be added. I'm not the person you should be asking for significant Nordic cities, but those two I have heard about, and it depends on you guys which one to add. But definitely a city in Finland flipping to the Swedes would be great, [ONLY if it is historically accurate like that].
As for Kalmar, I'm really going to have to appeal to your guys' sense of city importance. Kalmar which a big trading city on the Baltic sea, and was the head of the Kalmar Union. Because of its significance, it should not be overwritten by something else. Having it as a powerful independent city, sounds interesting to gameplay. Also if it got less important later on, its name can change to something else.
As for Uppsala, I would love it to be in the game, again for its importance. Someone said that it was overshadowed by Stockholm later on, so if Uppsala is close enough to Stockholm, why not have it either:
a. Turn into a "town" improvement, when the Swedes spawn
OR
b. Have it spawn on the Stockholm tile, and flip to the Swedes who would in turn change the name of it.
Actually that sounds like a REALLY great idea, why not have that happen then. That would be a very interesting proposal, and I back it 100%. In fact why not have all wonders like that, if no one builds it past a certain point, its allocated to its original city (if its there).
I'm happy your taking this into consideration
So here is one example of a corporation in SoI:
Spoiler :
You can always move around some resources, and then when Stockholm spawns, make it into a improvement, not to obstruct the city. Technically Stockholm was already there, but was just a small town concentrated on Ridderholm Island; so to have Stockholm represented by a hamlet improvement, and then when the Swedes spawn have Uppsala become a Town improvement, would be a good idea.
About the Shrine, yeah, you're right, I was just thinking that it could make sense if we go through with our considerations of giving it a "pagan +" -effect. Then you could choose between going for it, the city, or not bothering, if you want to go Christian anyway. I don't know, maybe it's a bad idea, I just like having the wonders where they are supposed to be, at least a chance for it, and if Uppsala is on the map, and there is a Shrine of Uppsale, but Uppsala is indy, then we would never see it there. Just like Stonehenge in Vanilla, when there even are no cities in Britain... that makes me die a little bit inside
Instead of a lame +1 culture per pagan city, why not have a special bonus towards melee units. I think that would fit the Vikings perfectly, since they are raiding all the time. Perhaps 10% strength for all Melee units would be good. I think that sounds a lot more interesting, and would fit the Viking UHV's soo much more!
Thats actually a pretty good idea adding Visby. Its a city that is usually never built, but an important one nonetheless. Could we not add just one independent city in Sweden? I'm leaning towards Kalmar, as it was more important, and then having a dynamic Uppsala (which becomes a town, when the Swedes spawn). But overall Visby should be included as well.
Definitely Optics IMO. Also can you please just call "The Road to the Masjid al-Haram", the Ummayad Mosque. You have the wonder art and everything, so it makes much more sense to represent the 3rd holiest site in Islam, rather than a site which is not even located on the map. So just just changing the name and the "History", would clean that up significantly.
AWESOME!!
I'm so excited for the new Isabella LH, the new wonder and the new Russian and Arabian unique units!!! Remember though, no camels for the Cordobans or Turks. Also, why not have a Pagan religion? Is it hard-coded that you cannot add another religion? I think it would be interesting to have a wide-spread Pagan religion, but is quickly obliterated by 1000 AD. Not to mention it would make playing as the Norse and Lithuanians SOOO much more interesting. Currently there is a lot of make believe that is happening, by pretending that there is a Pagan religion. You could have Paganism as a minor religion (like Judaism), that does not have a Holy City, but that you can convert to, but have negative relations with Christian, Muslim civilizations (especially the Pope).
Lastly, can you guys please replace some of the tech pictures, with more European-esque looking ones. For example the Monasticism image, just looks wrong. I recently put up a link to a whole range of unique looking European buttons, perhaps there is one of a monk in there, that can replace this one. Also does the Shrine of Uppsala need to be built on the coast? Because looking at the image, it seems its on the sea, (Like the Great Lighthouse wonder), but I don't think the Shrine of Uppsala was near water, was it?
PS. Pampolana keeps getting the Orthodox religion be spread to it, I would encourage you to just have Catholicism already present in the city, to stop that from happening.
PPS. Norway and Vestfold should not be Solid for the Swedish IMO. It should just be an OK province. Also should Lithuania really be unstable for the Swedish?
merijn_v1
Black Belt
Great, they are up
Checked the changes, everything seems fine
One minor thing: Why did you removed some of the strategy entries from the wonders.xml file?
The ViewVC part of sourceforge still doesn't work perfectly, I'm uploading another test commit to check it
I deleted the strategy because they aren't used. It's just XML cleanup.
Morholt
Prince
This would maybe work for Uppsala? 1N, extend Mälaren (Uppsala was at the Mälaren shore at the time, it isn't anymore because of post-glacial rebound).
I don't like the idea of Uppsala turning into a hamlet because it wasn't made insignificant by the growth of Stockholm - it simply changed from being the most important city in the country (along with Sigtuna which was made insignificant by Stockholm), to the second most important.
Oh, and the Turk - Åbo and Turku are the Swedish and Finnish names for the same city.
I don't like the idea of Uppsala turning into a hamlet because it wasn't made insignificant by the growth of Stockholm - it simply changed from being the most important city in the country (along with Sigtuna which was made insignificant by Stockholm), to the second most important.
Oh, and the Turk - Åbo and Turku are the Swedish and Finnish names for the same city.
ezzlar
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,843
I think Uppsala screws Stockholms space, better go for other cities and make Uppsala a town.
I also think that the Ummayad mosque is more fitting than the road to Mecca (?). The SoI corporation thing seems better than the current system but I dont think 3Miro has the time to recode, test and balance.
And Palermo needs a nerf! It´s like a capital when it comes to resources.
I also think that the Ummayad mosque is more fitting than the road to Mecca (?). The SoI corporation thing seems better than the current system but I dont think 3Miro has the time to recode, test and balance.
And Palermo needs a nerf! It´s like a capital when it comes to resources.
Cosmos1985
King
About a new corporation system, I think it would be excellent with something similar to the corps from SoI, it would at least make a lot of sense for the knightly orders, but if we were to even consider it, somebody - I'm looking at you, TheTurk, since you brought it up 
- would have to come up with a more detailed suggestion as to how to do it. But in its basics it sounds like a great idea to me.
Abot Kalmar, well, important city, sure, but it seems you are misunderstanding something about "The Kalmar Union", it was just there the treaty was signed - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Kalmar - it was never the capital or anything.
Morholt, is Stockholm 2E of the Barley on your suggestion? If it's not, can't is plausibly be there? 3 tiles between the cities then, that wouldn't be that bad. Then just maybe add 1-2 resources pr. city or something.
What would the advantages be of having a pagan religion, TheTurk? Wouldn't that require other religions to be able to autospread to che city even though it already has one present? If not, it would mess things up quite a lot - already I know the norse cities can take way too long to get christianity fx.
+1 to nerfing Palermo. Well, or adding one more Sicilian city.
- would have to come up with a more detailed suggestion as to how to do it. But in its basics it sounds like a great idea to me.Abot Kalmar, well, important city, sure, but it seems you are misunderstanding something about "The Kalmar Union", it was just there the treaty was signed - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Kalmar - it was never the capital or anything.
Morholt, is Stockholm 2E of the Barley on your suggestion? If it's not, can't is plausibly be there? 3 tiles between the cities then, that wouldn't be that bad. Then just maybe add 1-2 resources pr. city or something.
What would the advantages be of having a pagan religion, TheTurk? Wouldn't that require other religions to be able to autospread to che city even though it already has one present? If not, it would mess things up quite a lot - already I know the norse cities can take way too long to get christianity fx.
+1 to nerfing Palermo. Well, or adding one more Sicilian city.
I will begin coming up with a list for each Company (It would be best if you change the name, as Corporation is very modern terminology), as it states it in SoI. I'll post them up here, for you guys to criticize, and poke at.
Companies:
Augsburg Families
Bank of St. George
Hanseatic League
Knights Hospitaller
Knights Templar
Medici Banks
Teutonic Knights
Also I was wondering, why don't you have Venetian Merchants? If anything I would replace the Medici Banks (there is no Florence civ), and replace them with Venetian Merchants. Also I would suggest that in the future you add more Holy Orders, like Spanish/Portuguese ones; and also one form of bank originating in Russia.
Companies:
Augsburg Families
Bank of St. George
Hanseatic League
Knights Hospitaller
Knights Templar
Medici Banks
Teutonic Knights
Also I was wondering, why don't you have Venetian Merchants? If anything I would replace the Medici Banks (there is no Florence civ), and replace them with Venetian Merchants. Also I would suggest that in the future you add more Holy Orders, like Spanish/Portuguese ones; and also one form of bank originating in Russia.
Problem with hard-coded corporations is that you are preventing a majority of Civs from ever controlling one. To avoid that you have to add a bunch of small timers that had no real significance outside of their local area.
Augsburg, Hanseatic League, Teutonic - German.
Medici, St. George - Genoa/Italy.
Hospitaller, Templar - France.
Since the number of corporations is limited by available resources you will run into problems rather fast and in the process transform the game into a corporate war simulator as AIs buy out offices of competitors all over the place (can already be pretty bad in late game when gold is plentiful).
Augsburg, Hanseatic League, Teutonic - German.
Medici, St. George - Genoa/Italy.
Hospitaller, Templar - France.
Since the number of corporations is limited by available resources you will run into problems rather fast and in the process transform the game into a corporate war simulator as AIs buy out offices of competitors all over the place (can already be pretty bad in late game when gold is plentiful).
I'm sorry Veshta but I totally disagree with you. First off the Genoan and Florence banks where spread across Europe and the Levant. As for the Knightly Orders, I do agree with you there, as they were mostly only spread around Western Europe (Burgundy, England, France). And as for the Augsburg, Hanseatic League, Teutonic, these were spread around Northern Europe. That is why I'm saying that there should be one pan-Russian and one Iberian [Knights of Aviz perhaps?] company added.
We are not talking spread of the corporations, but control. You are basically hard-coding a massive gold bonus to a select few Civs and a potentially crippling penalty through maintenance on all other nearby Civs by making them 'static'.
I have used aggressive corporation spread to collapse more than one Civ in my time as their research/income drops to zero very fast while my own balloons.
I have used aggressive corporation spread to collapse more than one Civ in my time as their research/income drops to zero very fast while my own balloons.
No no my friend. Please read what I posted below, from SoI. There would be no "Corporation found place", they would spread around on their own, because guess what, companies in the Middle Ages (like today), were not state owned or runned. They were controlled by individuals, and depending on your religion, what resources you own, and where you are located, these independent companies may decide to move into your cities.
Aah, you had hidden it in a spoiler, no wonder I missed it. Didn't realise you wanted to completely change the way they work.
As long as everyone at least gets the chance to benefit from them and are not needlessly penalised through no fault of their own I have no objections (provided it doesn't delay my fave mod even more that is)
As long as everyone at least gets the chance to benefit from them and are not needlessly penalised through no fault of their own I have no objections (provided it doesn't delay my fave mod even more that is
)Aah, you had hidden it in a spoiler, no wonder I missed it. Didn't realise you wanted to completely change the way they work.
As long as everyone at least gets the chance to benefit from them and are not needlessly penalised through no fault of their own I have no objections (provided it doesn't delay my fave mod even more that is
Delay? You do realize you can play the game now right?
@Everyone
I will begin putting up Company conditions tomorrow, as my computer just overheated and died, as I was checking possible Hanseatic provinces... So till tomorrow everyone!
ezzlar
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,843
There are three things I would like more of in this mod:
- Unhealthy cities, this is pretty balanced, maybe a little bit worse
- Bad economy, lower effectiveness of economy buildings, raise city costs and much more expensive armies
- Wars, the environment should be far more aggressive, this might be in beta 12
I think all of these changes can be implemented fairly easy by tuning different values in configuration!
- Unhealthy cities, this is pretty balanced, maybe a little bit worse
- Bad economy, lower effectiveness of economy buildings, raise city costs and much more expensive armies
- Wars, the environment should be far more aggressive, this might be in beta 12
I think all of these changes can be implemented fairly easy by tuning different values in configuration!
Ambreville
Deity
I'm not sure the first two are really such a great idea. All that does is slow the game down. Why?? I think they're ok as is.
I do agree with the last, if only the AI were more skillful are warfare...
ezzlar
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,843
They will make completing uhvs and conquests harder!
Ambreville
Deity
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