RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[civmademepoor]

1) In re flags, St. George's Cross would be nice for Genoa, if it doesn't conflict with everyone.

2) I just was playing as Burgundy on the viceroy level. Stability was a major issue. I broke down in civil war three times, the major factors were economy, citiies and civics. I don't know what to do about civics, but economy Burgundy is going to get screwed with if custom houses are the only aid, and constant instability and civil war won't help the fixing the cities portion. Horses closer to Dijon would help too. On the upside, I wasn't surrounded by bloodthirsty independents.

 

[operafantom]

I played as Hungary and I think the history goal "have the most territory in Europe" or sg like that should be renamed for having the most territory on the map, because Arabia is not in Europe but unfortunately they had more territories than me . And Free Religion UHV isn't working yet. (I really think I was the first to adapt free religion, but not the first to found liberalism. Maybe that's the problem.)

 

[jessiecat]

As of right now, flags are somewhat random. If you have better proposals, you could post the files here and sedna could add them when/if he gets time. Flags are a low priority, right now we are working on wonders.

Just for people's information I found the last version of agreed flags from the (now extinct) Code Coordination thread. A couple still need work. There should be a crescent aded to the Ottoman one and the Bulgaria flag is a bit too close to the Austrian one. Anyway, look at these. What do you think?

Edit. Transferred to Art and Flags Thread.

 

[donbot]

Just played a test game as Austria, a few points to be made

1. What is the Carpathian basin for the first UHV condition? I am unsure what this area refers to

2. Why does Austria start at Zara? Is there a historical reason for this?

3. Bulgaria were too powerful and at one stage controlled 5 vassal states(inc. Byzantines), as well as the territory of Kiev and Poland (and were v. solid). This made meeting the UHV condition about vassal states impossible

4. UHV condition about DPs worked fine

5. City naming maps for the eastern civs are producing some unusual city names e.g. Cherokee in Russia, Hastings/Poitiers in Ukraine. What is involved with producing the city name maps- I would be happy to help out here but have no knowledge of coding whatsoever.

6. Genoa are not receiving starting techs(the ony non-starting civ for this I believe.

7. Stability is much better. The only problems I saw were Germany, Franks and Burgundy, which all collapsed before my spawn. After this only Kieven Rus collapsed, due to an aggressive Bulgaria. Incidently, do collapsed states re-spawn in this? I haven't seen this happen.

8. Norse civ is still turtling in Denmark. In all test games I have played, I have only seen them found Stavenger outside of Denmark. Can the AI be encouraged to settle further afield than Roskilde?

9. Has inflation been turned up for this mod? In my game it is responsible for around 70% of my total costs at 1700, and I have no idea how to cut inflation in my empire, if it is even possible

 

[jessiecat]

Just played a test game as Austria, a few points to be made

1. What is the Carpathian basin for the first UHV condition? I am unsure what this area refers to

2. Why does Austria start at Zara? Is there a historical reason for this?

3. Bulgaria were too powerful and at one stage controlled 5 vassal states(inc. Byzantines), as well as the territory of Kiev and Poland (and were v. solid). This made meeting the UHV condition about vassal states impossible

4. UHV condition about DPs worked fine

5. City naming maps for the eastern civs are producing some unusual city names e.g. Cherokee in Russia, Hastings/Poitiers in Ukraine. What is involved with producing the city name maps- I would be happy to help out here but have no knowledge of coding whatsoever.

6. Genoa are not receiving starting techs(the ony non-starting civ for this I believe.

7. Stability is much better. The only problems I saw were Germany, Franks and Burgundy, which all collapsed before my spawn. After this only Kieven Rus collapsed, due to an aggressive Bulgaria. Incidently, do collapsed states re-spawn in this? I haven't seen this happen.

8. Norse civ is still turtling in Denmark. In all test games I have played, I have only seen them found Stavenger outside of Denmark. Can the AI be encouraged to settle further afield than Roskilde?

1. The plains area west and north of the Carpathian Mts. (east of where Hungary spawns).
2. Try a couple of restarts as Austria and try each nearby tile until you find
one as Vienna. If not, either the tile or the start can be changed.
3. Starting units for all civs have yet to be decided. When they are, Hungary
will be made as strong as Bulgaria. In the meantime, you can add any units you
like when you're play-testing.
5. Are you sure about "Cherokee" in Russia? I thought the Russia map was done.
If not one of us will have to do it.
6. I thought Sedna had given starting techs to all civs. If not, he will soon.
7. That happens in my games a lot. Those 3 seem to wipe each other out just for the hell of it.
I don't think re-spawning has been coded yet.
8. I've noticed the Norse do this too. I think they need to be encouraged to get out more.

 

[donbot]

when you're play-testing.
5. Are you sure about "Cherokee" in Russia? I thought the Russia map was done.
QUOTE]

If you can tell me how to post a screenshot, then I will do so to show this (apologies for the ignorance, I am limited in my computer skills

 

[sedna17]

Hi Donbot,

I believe you that Russia may sometimes get funny names -- the map is not complete, and if you settle in one of the "off" tiles you'll get a randomly chosen name. I'll try to work out an improved system for people to contribute city names for us and post about it when I do. Thanks for your offer of help.

 

[jessiecat]

when you're play-testing.
5. Are you sure about "Cherokee" in Russia? I thought the Russia map was done.
QUOTE]

If you can tell me how to post a screenshot, then I will do so to show this (apologies for the ignorance, I am limited in my computer skills

Sure. Just press the Prt Scr button your keyboard (top row, right of F12). It will be saved
to Screenshots. Right-click your BTS icon, go to Properties, open "Screenshots", right click
the save and send it to My Documents. You can post it from there.

BTW I just tried Austria. Not only is the location wrong but all the names in the area
are too. Somebody's going to have to completely redo the names I think.

 

[jessiecat]

Just for people's information I found the last version of agreed flags from the (now extinct) Code Coordination thread. A couple still need work. There should be a crescent aded to the Ottoman one and the Bulgaria flag is a bit too close to the Austrian one. Anyway, look at these. What do you think?

I've also found a possible replacement for the Ottoman flag, the Kievan flag and the Dutch one.

Edit. Transferred to Art and Flags Thread.

 

[operafantom]

I played again as Hungary and it turned out that
1. none of the Hungarian UHVs are working
2. Germany is always conquered in a few turns (now by Bulgaria, I don't know how)
3. Frankia and Burgundy can't reach the technology level which the new civs are coming with, and they are really backward (but only Burgundy collapsed, Frankia did not)
4. Is Moscow supposed to start with the city of Moscow and Kijev with the city of Kijev?
5. There was an Ottoman city with that thing as name: #NAME.

 

[3Miro]

Just played a test game as Austria, a few points to be made

1. What is the Carpathian basin for the first UHV condition? I am unsure what this area refers to

2. Why does Austria start at Zara? Is there a historical reason for this?

3. Bulgaria were too powerful and at one stage controlled 5 vassal states(inc. Byzantines), as well as the territory of Kiev and Poland (and were v. solid). This made meeting the UHV condition about vassal states impossible

4. UHV condition about DPs worked fine

5. City naming maps for the eastern civs are producing some unusual city names e.g. Cherokee in Russia, Hastings/Poitiers in Ukraine. What is involved with producing the city name maps- I would be happy to help out here but have no knowledge of coding whatsoever.

6. Genoa are not receiving starting techs(the ony non-starting civ for this I believe.

7. Stability is much better. The only problems I saw were Germany, Franks and Burgundy, which all collapsed before my spawn. After this only Kieven Rus collapsed, due to an aggressive Bulgaria. Incidently, do collapsed states re-spawn in this? I haven't seen this happen.

8. Norse civ is still turtling in Denmark. In all test games I have played, I have only seen them found Stavenger outside of Denmark. Can the AI be encouraged to settle further afield than Roskilde?

9. Has inflation been turned up for this mod? In my game it is responsible for around 70% of my total costs at 1700, and I have no idea how to cut inflation in my empire, if it is even possible

1. The regions are somewhat iffy, the way I coded it it includes at least part of Hungary. I will try to come up with some sort of a map that will show where the regions are. (it is in Victory tAustrianControl, but to translate the coordinates into actual spot on the map you would need the excel spreadsheet.)

3. Strong Bulgaria is to be expected as part of the challenge, but overall civs vassalize too easily. I will look into fixing that.

4. Good to know.

5. The city names have to be perfectly aligned to the map. The maps is not fully finalized yet so there would be more problems with the names.

6. All civs should receive starting techs, Genoa was a bug.

7. Franks and Burgundians collapse each other, Expansion stability needs to be improved. Nations do respawn, just the odds are very small.

8. Norse need starting ships. I will see about the AI.

9. Inflation is adjustable.

 

[donbot]

Playing as Burgundy, I have had no stability problems myself- Germans, Norse and Franks all declared war on me within 5 turns of meeting me, which was ridiculous as I had advanced quickly and built a good army and defeated them easily. Can the aggresiveness of these civs be toned down?

Also, newly spawned nations are spawning with much less technologies than I have at the time. I think either Burgundy have an extremely strong starting position, or civs require more starting techs than given at the moment

Is Odeon supposed to be the Burgundian unique building?

 

[Depravo]

How about moving the Catholic Holy City around to represent Western nations controlling the Pope? Could the Papal Favour concept be brought over from the Charlemagne scenario? It might help Catholicism get where it needs to be without the blunt instrument of a large spread bonus.

If the start date is 500 it would be wholly appropriate for most cities in ex-West Roman continental Europe and North Africa to hold to Catholicism already.

 

[3Miro]

Papal State would be eventually a nation of its own (with special rules). I am still considering what is possible in terms of the code.

It makes no sense to move any holy city. Fight for control of the Papacy could be implemented otherwise.

 

[st.lucifer]

Just for people's information I found the last version of agreed flags from the (now extinct) Code Coordination thread. A couple still need work. There should be a crescent aded to the Ottoman one and the Bulgaria flag is a bit too close to the Austrian one. Anyway, look at these. What do you think?

Go ahead and start up a new flag thread - space is no longer an issue, and the artwork deserves its own space.

 

[st.lucifer]

Just played a test game as Austria, a few points to be made

8. Norse civ is still turtling in Denmark. In all test games I have played, I have only seen them found Stavenger outside of Denmark. Can the AI be encouraged to settle further afield than Roskilde?

Thanks for your feedback.


When we get independent cities put in, the Norse spawn is supposed to flip Tonsberg in Norway, giving them a foothold on both landmasses - but they should probably have some ships, too.


Miro, is it possible to turn off inflation for a while, until things are a little more settled, as you did with stability?

 

[3Miro]

OK I will decrease the inflation for everyone. Keep in mind that we want to make a challenging game, we don't want something that is too easy.

Notes to sedna, open borders should come earlier in the tech tree. Associate them with Map Making or something similar.

 

[donbot]

Playing as Burgundians I have had no problems with inflation. Is it something that affects later spawning civs worse?

 

[KaiserBenjamin]

I think the biggest obstacle to good playtesting now, in addition to setting up the correct starting units, is the lack of default buildings upon city founding.

That said, I started a few late games just to see the world situation.

Arabia seems almost overpowered, but maybe that's deliberate. When I spawned as the Dutch, they had the highest score with 3,000 points and the next closest was Cordoba with 2,000. Pretty big gap. I think the Ottomans need to spawn with a tougher military and a hyper-aggressive AI or else the Arabs will always keep them totally penned in.

I think the Moscovites should start with three Settlers instead of two.

In my game the Burgundian civ collapsed in 1035.

The religious distribution/spread seems pretty accurate so kudos on that.

When I got the tech that gave me Free Peasantry and Merchant Republic there were some "TXT" stuff in the description of "do you want to switch over."

Oh, and I also got a Cherokee Russian city. See screenshot.

Oh, and a TXT holiday. See screenshot.

More updates as they come.

 

[KaiserBenjamin]

More comments. Protestantism founded in 1398 by Bulgaria. Arabia has spread through Africa, which is good. It's still early, but I think Ottomans need some steroids. I took a History of the Ottoman Empire class as an undergraduate a few years back, and they spread like crazy, conquering the entire region within a few hundred years with incredible speed. I can't imagine that ever happening in this game.

As of 1401, the scoreboard has Arabia with 2837, Bulgaria with 1932, Spain at 1750, and then Venezia, Germany, Kiev, and Byzantium spread out between 1500 and 1200.

So far in this game, Byzantium has declined slowly, with cities declaring independence on its edges periodically. It's been pretty accurate and I've been pleased to watch the other civs rise up.

Big parts of the map are still empty. I think something needs to be done with southern Italy. More independent cities maybe, but it's strange to see Sicility and Naples completely unsettled.