RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[Wessel V1]

Is that on Monarch? If so, what an incredible science empire you got there! I'll upload some of my screenshots too. The first is a screenshot from the Arabian situation. One of the less densely covered areas.

I don't think that the commerce multiplier is too powerful, since most empires can't get so many resources. And I wouldn't want it to be out, since it enhances gameplay in my view. One thing that I've found more enjoyable in that game was that in 1200 years, I've always had something useful to do, slowly increasing research and production output; in older versions it was more like a large bump and that's it.

 

[Feyaria]

I only play monarch. My Genova was similar to your Marseilles, plus lot of free Specs due to Wonders and lots of settled GP -> ~1300

Maybe commerce multipliers shoud be reduced to +4% per resource, but dont take them away.
Tanner could have an additional +4% commerce for fur and deer, cost increased to 100 . Then it would be worth to build.

Now with all 4 commerce-multiplier buildings and all 16 recources its 16x5 = +80%
With 2 more resources from tanner and only +4%, maximum would be 18x4 = +72%

 

[merijn_v1]

I only play monarch. My Genova was similar to your Marseilles, plus lot of free Specs due to Wonders and lots of settled GP -> ~1300

Maybe commerce multipliers shoud be reduced to +4% per resource, but dont take them away.
Tanner could have an additional +4% commerce for fur and deer, cost increased to 100 . Then it would be worth to build.

Now with all 4 commerce-multiplier buildings and all 16 recources its 16x5 = +80%
With 2 more resources from tanner and only +4%, maximum would be 18x4 = +72%

IMO that 8% isn't worth it. Maybe 3% each. That will be 54% (18) or 48% (16). So the impact is not so big anymore.

 

[Wessel V1]

I'm going to play as the Polish now. Before I'll start, some things I've noticed:

- There is a typo (happyness, happiness for Burgundy so one of them is wrong). Also, it doesn't make sense to have such an UP, since the happiness by civilization is preset, "we just enjoy life". As this number is different for all civs, the UP won't make any difference since it only adds to the number for that civ, which can be altered anyway for that particular civ, the results are the same.
- The same thing applies for the research bonus. +10% seems to be useful, but since the research rates are different for all civs, it simply adds to the number, that has been lowered in the beginning to make the civ not overpowered. It would make sense though if the UP only applies in a certain Era. Notice that in RFC, the Mayan research bonus and the Greek Great Person bonus only work until the Renaissance. If it would work in the entire game, it would be easier to adjust the balance files.

So the UPs that could be altered are the Moscowan UP, the Polish UP and the Burgundian UP.

Of course it is not entirely necessary for the Moscowan UP, since these numbers are almost equal for all civs, but it might be useful as well.

 

[Michael Vick]

Playing as Spain in new version, I just spawned in 1083 on the pig resource... 3 units East of Toledo...? Burgos is there, Leon, Toledo, and Zaragoza are in the wrong spots... Did I overwrite the file wrong, or is it supposed to be like this?

 

[Wessel V1]

Usually it's best to delete the old folder first and then unzip the file. The way I do it seems to work too (extract from J-zip), but I have to start the game from the My Documents folder to get access to the scenario. I'd recommend the first way, although I'm not sure whether you'll keep your high-scores or not, and that's the reason why I always do the second way.

 

[jessiecat]

Playing as Spain in new version, I just spawned in 1083 on the pig resource... 3 units East of Toledo...? Burgos is there, Leon, Toledo, and Zaragoza are in the wrong spots... Did I overwrite the file wrong, or is it supposed to be like this?

Do you mean the May 26 version? The new version (hopefully) will be out in a day or two if Sednas found time this weekend, including the 910 start AFAIK.
EDIT. It's here! Sorry I didn't check the files thread.

 

[Michael Vick]

Haha, I got it, it says 910 now, that was a scare...

 

[Feyaria]

Another funny thing: Crusade against Protestantism!



First, Venetia conquered Jerusalem, then they converted to Protestantism.
Now the pope calls a crusade against Venetia, but Austrian troops are ported away from Jerusalem and are trapped because of no open borders with Arabia and Turkey.

 

[KaiserBenjamin]

So I'm playing Burgundy right now. I haven't played since like January, and I'm impressed by the progress that has been made since then. Quick question though - what counts as a "luxury resource" since I need six of them to win my final UHV?

 

[BurnEmDown]

I think it's pretty obvious that all resources which give + are luxury

 

[jessiecat]

A quick report on playing as Cordoba in the latest version. Getting the 3 UHVs is easy enough if you turtle in your 3 cities and forget about Tanjah. But stability was pretty bad from the start and remained so for the rest of the game. Spain is still as hostile as ever but never launched a serious attack. In fact they seem more interested in attacking Portugal. And apart from taking the indy Pamplona and Toledo they didn't expand at all. Not even Barcelona which became an indy stronghold full of troops.
The problem with playing as Cordoba now is that the instability makes it impossible to expand into North Africa. Even Tanjah declared its independence. I didn't dare try to found another city in Iberia either for fear it would go indy too. So no Granada and Malaga for them this time. This foriegn instability just cripples Cordoba now from the start, not what we intended, I'm sure.
A couple of possible bugs.
1. Tanjah had plague when it flipped in 720 and remained with plague for the rest of the game.
Yet no units were affected.
2. No barbs turned up to attack Tanjah. Not even one. What happened to them?
3. The game froze in 1500 as soon as the UHV was announced. (Autosave below).

 

[Wessel V1]

Another report on the Polish game. It's 1275 now, the Horde is striking. Russia has been conquered completely, Bulgaria has also lost some cities. France (2x), Burgundy and Spain have collapsed soon after I spawned. The area is filled with independent cities of the same colour, so I guess it's either indies 1 and 3 or 2 and 4, or even worse, it's one state. I think I'm going to adjust the independent colours slightly to see what's happened. Bulgaria has been conquering far away lands again, Cyrene and Alexandria are Bulgarian. I wonder how they've managed to open borders with Arabia though.

It takes some time to develop the economy. Everyone who spawns later starts a little bit behind, 2 or 3 techs, and it takes a while to catch up because it takes a little longer than normal to build infrastructure. That might be related to quick expansion though, before Austria spawned I had 6 cities, 2 of them conquered, one rebuilt becayse it was located on a inferior position (Praga). I've also moved the fish north of Gdansk one south. Currently, I still have those 6 cities, because I haven't found any strong locations yet that are close enough; the locations near St. Petersburg are far away and the other possibilities either lack rivers or have too many moorland / marsh tiles. The problem might be that rivers are so powerful. Each rivertile has +1 production and +2 commerce in the late game, +2 health, and also the possibility to have watermills, which can provide many more hammers than lumbermills, that come much later. So, a river is worth several resources in the BFC, which is a lot. I guess it will be St. Petersburg then.

 

[BurnEmDown]

I played a couple of games as Hungary, each ending around the 13th century.
In the first game I rapidly expanded south of Pest, only founded 1 city NE of it, Kasse was it's name I think. I conquered Belgrade and got up to Tomis (Bulgaria collapsed before I spawned).
Then I finished researching Civil Service and decided to change my civics, I changed them all to Civil Service's newly acquired civics and OR, in 2 turns I collapsed and started a new game.
In the second game I didn't expand as fast, didn't even declare war on Bulgaria, but around the 1270's the barbarian hordes came in unexpected, they took a weakly defended city and I lost the UHV.
The 3rd game was lost at about the same time, only this time I was more prepared and even had enough stability to conquer Bulgaria. Just as I conquer Preslav the barbarians arrive and capture it, meaning I lose the UHV again.
So is it just me or are the Barbarian hordes too powerful? Not only do they come in many more numbers than the troops I have, my best troops don't even have more than 10 STR, while the Keshiks have 12. I'll now try my 4th game, waiting until I fend off the barbarians before trying to expand in order to meet the 1st UHV requirement.
Also, it seems that in order to get the 2nd UHV one must build the Golden Bull.

 

[operafantom]

@BurnEmDown: In fact I could win with Hungary with the following strategy more than once: build around 6 cities until 1230-40 in the Carpathian basin, build in the eastern ones Stronghold (UB Castle it hurts attackers) You don't really have to declare war on anyone, or maybe you should never declare war because of instability from it. Before the Mongol attack you should already have Aristocracy, with that build lots of guisarmes. You should also have Code of laws for building Hussars. Then with 8-9 units of Hussars, Guisarmes or if possible Arbalests in each cities you can survive Mongols without losing cities. Then expand after that. If you're lucky and Poland is not too expansive, then you'll probably get the first UHV with settling in the Balcan.
For the Free Religion one it's almost a must to build Golden Bull, but you can succeed without it anyway, AI doesn't like free religion very much, they don't convert in one turn when they found Liberalism.
Another thing: nowadays Kijev collapses or very weak every time. Is it only at me?

 

[jessiecat]

It's not just you. I just lost again as Kiev even though I turtled in 2 cities and defended them with castles and at least 8 guisarmes and arbalests in each. At one time there were over 20 Keshiks attacking Kiev. The timescale of the Mongols was supposed to be reduced but there are still far too many of them. If the human player has little chance of stopping them then the AI has none at all.
Same problem with playing as England. The art for the Scots and Welsh barbs is really nice but do we really need so many of them and for so long? In one recent game I had Scots barbs spawning for over 400 years. Defending against them for so long just wrecks your economy and development.

 

[operafantom]

Hm yes. Kijev didn't survive the mongols. It's their destiny . I think it's really hard for Hungary too, and without Strongholds it might be impossible. Stronghold hits them to 85-90% of health normally in one turn, and when they attack a city they're around 80 % of their health.
In the case of Kijev there are no forests around which slow them down or anything. But there are many of them. Last time I killed 49 Keshiks in the game I also tried to save Bulgaria from collapsing but couldn't succeed.
But I have to admit it is for me the most exciting part of the game with Hungary .

 

[Michael Vick]

Finished a game as Spain. That was probably the best game of RFCEurope I've played yet. I LOVE the new start, keep it at 910. One thing though, Spain didn't have any cities on the flip. I think they need atleast 1 in the Northwest, either A Coruna, or Santiago. There was no Zaragoza, I think it would be nice to have it there. I also think those indies in Iberia should have Catholicism when they spawn, to represent a Christian front against Al-Andalus. Other than that, and the absence of the city name maps, it was a great game.
-I founded Santiago, and Porto, expanded the economy and culture for about a 100 hundred years,
-In 1085, I took Cuenca (on the right tile!) and Toledo from the the Cordobans, their stability came up Stable/Shaky
-By 1170, I had taken the indy cities in the East and founded Zaragoza.
-Soon after Portugal spawned, Cordoba collapsed, Portugal vassalized the turn after.
-In 1236, I took Valencia and Cordoba, (independents put up a tougher fight than Al- Raman II)
-1248, I founded Seville, 1262 I captured Cadiz (new location is much better)
For about a hundred years, I built up settlers, macemen, religious buildings and commerce buildings
-By mid-1300's I had one settlement on Mallorca and Sassari, Cagliari, on Sardinia.
-In 1401, used first Carrack to settle Tenerife, take control of the sugar.
-1471, took Tanjah, razed it, built Tanger 1 tile further North ( @ jessiecat)
-This whole time I had left some the last indies in Spain alive, one by one I took Malaga, Almeria, and finally Granada in 1491. How's THAT for a historically pretty reconquista?
-1497, settled Ceuta, corrected name to Melilla
-By this time, I had a whole fleet of Carracks going back and forth from Barcelona, to the possesions around Italy, I had Palermo, and Siracusa in Sicily, in 1500, founded Catanzaro in Southern Italy, next turn, 1502, amphibious attack took Napoles.
-In 1532, settled Bari several tiles NE of Napoles, my Southern Italy conquest was complete.
-Now the absolutely remarkable thing about this, was that SOMEHOW, I had managed to keep a "solid" rating on my stability. It took a LOT of courthouses and manor houses, but I did it.
-In late 1400's I had switched civics to Divine Monarchy, Religious Law, Free Peasantry, Theocracy, and Imperialism.
-By 1550, I had built La Mezquita in Cordoba, (How did Arabia not get to it?) The Alhambra and the Gardens in Granada, (with the help of a great engineer), El Escorial in Madrid, and Magellans Voyage in Cadiz.
-The 1560's were exciting, I amassed a huge army of pikemen, (led by General Ambrogio Spinola), knights, and a few settlers and set off to the Netherlands.
Founded Amsterdam, declared on Burgundy because they went Protestant, and took their settlements of Utrecht and Anvers.
-Burgundy had a defensive pact with Genoa(also protestant for some reason?), so after Burgundy capitulated to my Catholic French allies, my knights and and pikemen made their way down the Rhine to Italy.
-1580, captured Milan, which would eventually complete Leonardo's inventions. Netherlands spawned, denied them their cities, now they are just a hapless group of musketmen roaming through my territory.
-1600, First UHV completed, one problem though, I think the colonies come a bit late. I think Hispaniola for example should come with a much earlier tech, like Astronomy, Cuba also. These colonies were created in the 1490's and I had to wait until the 1550's to even start production, AND I was way ahead of the other civs. Nationalism for Cuba? Wayyy too late.
-Now I just cruise along to the last UHV, this is way too easy, Cordoba only had Islam in Cordoba, Cadiz, and Malaga. Then some Jews in Toledo, and I was done. I think the second UHV should be a conquest of Iberia together with making it all-Catholic. Like-"Unite Iberia under Spain and Catholicism" or something a little less vague
The last UHV could involve settling the Italian area.
Overall it was a fun game though, VERY historic. I especially like how in the end game it's usually a race between the nt Western European powers, Spain, England, and France, to build colonies and research like crazy. Amazing work so far.

 

[youtien]

Monarch is a little bit easy, emperor is too hard (too many barbs).

My feedback:

Burgandy: easily done UHV. Settle Lyon, spawn troops to conquer, build Cluny and Round Church of Preslav and Notre Dame......no real threat. Key to Jerusalem is navy carrying siege weapons. Conquer Marsilles and build Shrine of Uppsala, settle Sicily. On 1st or 2nd Crusade I didn't attack, I fortified until signed peace treaty with Arabia, then my troops transported back to homeland (due to map blank), making a horde of free troops. Luxury goal is simple too.

French: even easier. I managed to build every wonders expect Arabic ones and Chivalry ones. If Paris got 500+ culture early, Calais won't spawn, so English get one less city. Settle north after English spawn. Build nearly every project too. The late game is boring so I didn't finish.

Byzantium: despite the penalties, still possible to build every early wonders. Every city expect capital build worker. Research set to 0% (or research astrolabe first) until Arabia and Bulgaria spawn, gift useless city to them. Didn't finish 2nd goal on time and too lazy to reload.

Bulgaria: failed to Mongols. Will try again later. They seldom survives.

Hungary: likely to fail too, but I won.

Arabia: too easy. House of Wisdom is overpowered. I just skip Chivalry until my L' Encyclopedia is built. After La Mezquita I can research at 100%. Found Knight Templar and Hanseastic League -- food, the most powerful corporation, and Arabia lacks food while having 6+ salts. One trick is don't found Dimashq at the first turn. Wait 1 turn, Sour and Al-Quds will flip, and one of them would become capital, one of them would found Islam. In my game Al-Quds is capital, Sour is holy city. But computer once got both at Sour (could be a palace rebuild too, didn't check.)

Cordoba: no stability problem for me. 2nd Settler found al-Qadis. Cordoba build Noria, Tanjah build worker - Shrine of Uppsala. After done wheat farming, worker go to stone NN to Valencia, build fort(can't chop forest) to get stone, then Valencia build Cluny, Cadiz build RC of Preslav, get Civil service, switch to bureaucracy - free peasantary - merchant republic. I built Notre Dame too. Conquer Toledo, use it to produce settler and worker, agree to flip when Spain spawn. Cordoba can easily grow to 12 in 1000AD. With our civic and House of Wisdom I easily become the tech leader. The 3 wonder is easy (don't trade needed techs to our only competitor Arabia). Also founded Hansa, conquered Barcelona, Marsilles, Genova, Alger(not so good) and Tunis(good), razed Milano (should raze Zaragora too) , settled Sicily. After Flintlock I wiped out Portugal and Spain, meanwhile getting some projects. Victory.

Germany: didn't try yet. But they usually convert to Judaism at start (weird), and soon be overruned by Burgandy, then never reborn as a threat.

Venetia: I like their UP, and this civ can get UHV ASAP, which is a challenge. Don't found Venezia, it's safest but a lame spot for AI. Found Pola (EE of Venezia), the 2nd settler board to galley, sail through Ragusa (declare war), to the stone/hill/forest/plain spot, settle there and begin Cluny. The key resource for all civs is stone. Possible to get RCP (Round Church of Preslav) too. Marco Polo's Embassy is good and not hard to build. Hire mercenary for war, the only threat is Mongols. Indy navals are nuisance. Sicily is a great spot. Crete is crap, Cyprus is often settled by Arabia so we have to war. Crusade can get us many free troops. At Emperor it is much harder because cities often declare independence. At middle game we can raze Firenze (on earlier version Papal sometimes raze it) and rebuild Bologna on marble, great production city too. 8 luxury resource, 5 of them is wine. At luck we get popped gold, gem or silver; otherwise we can conquer Tunis.

Norse: some said the 1050 goal with Sicily is hard, Not hard to me. Just sail around Iberia and conquer Tanjah, pop a settler there. Then Tanjah may be razed by barbarian, OK for us. I beelined optics, no state religion for the game. finished 2 goals at 1200, didn't want to complete the raze 10 cities goal (boring) . 2nd settler settle on stone of Ireland. 3rd settle Inverness (raze Edinburgh later), Frence one could be anywhere (I settled Bordeaux and it idled). I suggest modify like this: Secure though trade or control of all Atlantic accesses in 1600 AD -- or, allow no other civs control Atlantic access in 1500 - 1600 AD. Then the game will be more fun.

Genova: I nearly got it (built Marco Polo too) , then Moscow got UHV at 1650 AD, rats. Should settle Crimea earlier and sack Russia. Conquer Marsilles and Lyon ASAP, Lyon would be a great production and military city. Late game I wared with Germany and Arabia the same time, then Moscow silently won.

English: fun at early, boring late. After flipping Bo...(3N of Paris) I conquered Paris, and luckily found Cluny and Notre and Preslav inside. French respawned once, and I recaptured Paris soon. London build market, tech for clockmaking, we need Hansa. I got CS from Germany. Then go for guilds. Didn't switch to apprenticeship until most lands improved (and town growed, but plague destroyed them thrice). The power of workshop is so powerful that I could build every building at every city if I want. Didn't get Magna Carta like history.

I did an Emperor English UHV at March version. At mid game Venetia was tech leader and I waged war with them, destroyed many cities and my stability (had to recapture Dublin, Barnstable......). Late game I compete with Spain -- I found Protestianism and spread to Spain, use spy to let them switch (one turn of anarchy), and they usually switch back later. I did this like 5 times and Spain finally collapsed at 17th century with a lot of tech and force. LOL. I didn't get any corporation and stayed 10 cities (incl. Calais) that game. Got Industal Rev. only 10+ turns to end. That was a nice long game.

Polish : currently playing, fun!

+10% research is not useful, since we have no religion at start, and we have Mongols to deal with. My challenge is build Marco Polo's Embassy first, found Hansa for population, and no city lose to Mongols.

Found Warszawa one S of starting spot. One less wheat, but 3 more hills. 2 Other cities are Bydgoszcz (SSW of Gdnask. How to pronunce???) and Skalca(between iron and copper). Conquer Prague, spawn worker and settler there, get its stone worked and linked. Austria will flip Prag, agree. Settler go found Roztoka(coast city, can grow crazily). 10 turns later, Conquer Prag and Wien (Catholic!), vassalize Austria, then we can steal golds and techs. Wien is a great city too. Settle Lipsk later, another great spot. Poor German never respawned. I should have conquered Augsburg earlier too.

Electrorate - Feudal - Serfdom - Manorlism first. Warszawa build Market - Marco Polo. Research Music - Literature. Trade techs with French and Burgandy (give them Farrier, and their armored lancers will overrun Germany). I managed to finish market just two turns before literature. And finished Marco Polo at 1134 AD (sometimes other civ finish it at 1101 AD like, so it depends on luck). The merchant GP is important because I want Hansa. Bought astrolabe - clockmaking from Venizia. After Chivalry and Gunpowder I seldom research tech myself (stole tech from Austria instead!). Befriend to Norse. Switch to CS - Merchant Republic after Civil Service (get by trade or steal)

Build 7 or 8 Winged Hussars for Keshik invasion, lost 2 or 3. I didn't expand eastward so their only target is Warszawa and Bydgoszcz. Draft some Guisarme can help but not much. In last game Keshik destroyed my Lwow (east or Warsaw) and turned to Hungary. In this game Hungary survives and is vassal of Arabia, and Arabia converted to Orthodoxy. Weird.

After Mongols no one can stop us from expanding eastward. Conquer Minsk, refound Riga(ruined); disband Gdansk when they flip, rebuild Elblag NE of Gdansk. With our UB, UP, vassal and Hansa we can grow, grow, grow. Maybe I should build more workers to work.

8 Catholic Monasteries and 2 Cathedrals before 1500 AD is simple. No one found Printing Press before 1500, then Swedish spawned, they found Pro-ism, I converted and use full power to steal techs from them. Meanwhile I stole banking from Austria (told them to research for me to steal), Judiasm spreaded to my land after banking, and I happily built Temple Mount (in many games Arabia build it earlier). Now is 1592, I have 15 cities, Wien gave back to Austria at 19 pop. Moscowan collapsed by no reason, and Germany seems not respawning. Happiness problem solve by resource, building, culture slider or Divine Monarchy. I remain serfdom. Sweden declared war on me twice, Norse vassalized to me. I will overrun Sweden after I build more carracks and stole every their tech.

So, this is the problem: AI research rate at monarch is too slow. Sweden spawned as most advanced. This Polish game is my only game not being tech leader, so I felt more fun.



Suggestion:

Nerf La Mezquita! (+1 gold would be fine, like Cluny)
Topkapi Palace still not working.
Portugal UP could be: +100% foreign trade route yield, or double production rate to colonial projects.

Atlantic Access as a resource is not a good design. What if I control Tanjah or NW Africa or the Islands and still have no access? And, Marsilles have 1 Access, but Gilbrata strait could usually blocked by Spain or Cordoba. And why Norse have none?
Sweden should have one too. So, either make another mechanic or add more access near every possible good coastal city spot.

Buff Spice and Tea. Design events to let colonial power get rich.

Spain conquered Inca, Aztec and got very much gold and silver, let them get rich but increase inflation rapidly. We can design something to simulate these historical effects, and let player make choice.

Crusader event is crap. It's not reasonble those crusader just "portaled" to Jerusalem. Maybe make them OB with Byzantium automatically and spawn at Byzantium-Arabia border. Add a $ promotion to crusaders, and if they stay at enemy lands for 3+ turns without pillaging or capture a city, they will lose health gradually, simulating the supply problem. (In CIV4 we don't have supply problem, not realistic, In RFC my Chinese warrior always spend 1400 years traveling from Beijing to Athenai.)

Modify House of Wisdom! Maybe: +100% or/and +3 base research for scholar and great scholar, can turn 2 citizens to scholar. Obsolete with other key techs like Printing Press.

Hanseatic League: too early and powerful. Maybe: enable corporation after Guilds.

Marco Polo's Embassy: change like this: move a Great merchant to the Silk Road (near Damascus) or the southern most water tile of the map (NW Africa or the Red Sea), add a command like establish trade route, then the Embassy would be build at the birthplace of that GM. Providing +culture and +10-20% toward Paper, Arabic Knowledge, Gunpowder (through events)...... or enable a specfic tech. Remove the free silk.

Mongols: the 50+ Keshiks overruning is dull and stupid. How about let them rise as a generic civ?

 

[youtien]

Enjoy the golden serfdom and espionage, no liberty and research.