RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[Samsa]

I also say one tile north is much more appropriate for buda.

I just started a game with spain to see how much cities flip to them (cause of recent discussion). I really don't like spain to have 5 cities to flip, NO other civ got more than 2 city flips. Why should spain have that much? IMHO it makes them very strong, wich they shouldn't at their spawn.
So remove at least Braga and Zaragossa. Also we may - again - should consider change Spains start date, not because i don't like the later start (it's fine!) but to see some "recoquista" progress. It shouldn't be that Spains spawn immediate crushes Cordobas stability (amplified by Portugals spawn some turns later), i'de rather like to see mediate Spain at spawn, gaining some power and then get Cordoba

(I apologize for some weird stuff i wrote, right came back from a loooong birthday party )

 

[micbic]

If Buda is taken one tile E, it will be Pest and not Buda.

 

[jessiecat]

If Buda is taken one tile E, it will be Pest and not Buda.

Yes. That's how the tile is tagged. But if its going to become Budapest later anyway, why not just call it Budapest when it spawns, as I said before?

@Samsa. See the discussion on the other thread. Spain will not be flipping 5 cities. Only 2 IMO.

 

[Michael Vick]

I also say one tile north is much more appropriate for buda.

I just started a game with spain to see how much cities flip to them (cause of recent discussion). I really don't like spain to have 5 cities to flip, NO other civ got more than 2 city flips. Why should spain have that much? IMHO it makes them very strong, wich they shouldn't at their spawn.
So remove at least Braga and Zaragossa. Also we may - again - should consider change Spains start date, not because i don't like the later start (it's fine!) but to see some "recoquista" progress. It shouldn't be that Spains spawn immediate crushes Cordobas stability (amplified by Portugals spawn some turns later), i'de rather like to see mediate Spain at spawn, gaining some power and then get Cordoba

(I apologize for some weird stuff i wrote, right came back from a loooong birthday party )

I agree with this, personally I've supported going back to the 720 spawn this whole time.

As for Buda, maybe the tile directly Northeast would be good. 1 tile right, 1 tile up from the screenshot.

 

[jessiecat]

I agree with this, personally I've supported going back to the 720 spawn this whole time.

As for Buda, maybe the tile directly Northeast would be good. 1 tile right, 1 tile up from the screenshot.

So after all that lobbying and arguing now you want to go back to the status quo?
"Madre de Dios!"

 

[Metal Alloy Man]

720 it is!

(I completely agree with Samsa)

 

[Michael Vick]

Haha most my lobbying has been for the terrain changes and city locations changes. I'll have you know I wasn't the one who suggested this change and I opposed it from the beginning. I kept my mouth shut because I wanted to see what it developed into. So far I don't like it, however, I think we can still save the 1080 idea. See my post in the RFC civ discussion thread.

 

[operafantom]

If we move the barley souther, on the explace of the barley Pest is OK I think.

 

[Verily]

If we move the barley souther, on the explace of the barley Pest is OK I think.

Of course, then the Danube needs to be moved so Budapest is still on the Danube.

 

[operafantom]

Or maybe we should place Wien one tile to the left. They don't really build Salzburg so the salt resource is not as useful as it could be for them. So if it's one more tile to west, it has the iron the horse the wheat the gold and the salt, too.
EDIT: And of course we would put the wheat somewhere else. And then Buda and Wien would only have a common gold tile, if we put Buda in the right place. And if it's Pest then they wouldn't have any.

 

[operafantom]

And another idea : to put Prague one tile to the west. There is an iron, a silver and gems which are not in the fat cross but on the border. What about it?

 

[jessiecat]

Buda and Wien would only have a common gold tile, if we put Buda in the right place. And if it's Pest then they wouldn't have any.

As I said before, whichever tile you choose, its going to become Budapest anyway. So why not just call it Budapest when it spawns?

Hopefully, Sedna will make the final call on that and the Spanish situation. These discussions could go on forever. We need quick decisions and a new version soon. Are you listening, Sedna?

 

[FuzzyRabbitLord]

Just played a game as hungary, I moved first settler to where pest currently is on the map made capital there. I edited the land a little to give more production in the form of two forests (a historical maybe but i wanted a teeny bit more early production

from that start (I also built munkacs and nyga(something) with my two starting settlers) I had an extremely fun game as hungary I was able to become the largest empire while keeping positive stability I was one of the research leaders and back and forth with france for first place with the score. I had pretty much the game under raps by the time the ottomons spawned so it was kinda boring from there for a little bit. but great game I was able to hold the majority of the balkans, and the huszar is a very fun unit.

I like the idea of Hungary's capital being where pest currently is on the map.

 

[jessiecat]

Just in case there is any doubt that the balance of Spain/Cordoba is completely gone in the latest, this is how bad it is. Started a game as Spain in 1083, founded Madrid and A Coruna, Leon, Toledo, Burgos and Zaragoza flipped to me. Cordoba declared war and went straight for their capital with 8 lancers and 3 heavy swordsman. Captured Cordoba and then Seville 3 turns later. Three turns after that they collapsed. A grand total of 13 turns. Ridiculous! Back to the drawing board, Sedna. It was much better balanced before with the 720 start.

 

[Wessel V1]

I think that the real problem is the fact that you can get to Cordoba so easily; Madrid is too close. That's my concern about the new Hungarian start too, it invites the human player (Austria) to destroy them instantly. Less units on spawn could also help, but I think that some strong troops in Cordoba and castles could also solve a lot.

 

[sedna17]

Just in case there is any doubt that the balance of Spain/Cordoba is completely gone in the latest, this is how bad it is. Started a game as Spain in 1083, founded Madrid and A Coruna, Leon, Toledo, Burgos and Zaragoza flipped to me. Cordoba declared war and went straight for their capital with 8 lancers and 3 heavy swordsman. Captured Cordoba and then Seville 3 turns later. Three turns after that they collapsed. A grand total of 13 turns. Ridiculous! Back to the drawing board, Sedna. It was much better balanced before with the 720 start.

I fundamentally disagree that Cordoba and Spain should be at all balanced during the re-conquest. The human is so much better at war than the AI that any conquest which is reasonably possible for the AI is going to be a piece of cake for the AI, and I insist that Iberia be designed so that the Spanish AI takes over Spain at least >50% of the time.

I have experimented with the suggestion that several people advocated of moving Spain back to spawning at Leon and flipping fewer cities on spawn. In two loads of the Swedish start (i.e. by 1500), both times Spain was still confined to the northern part of the peninsular and Cordoba was still as powerful as ever. I hope with some more changes this general pattern can be rectified.

 

[jessiecat]

I fundamentally disagree that Cordoba and Spain should be at all balanced during the re-conquest. The human is so much better at war than the AI that any conquest which is reasonably possible for the AI is going to be a piece of cake for the AI, and I insist that Iberia be designed so that the Spanish AI takes over Spain at least >50% of the time.

I have experimented with the suggestion that several people advocated of moving Spain back to spawning at Leon and flipping fewer cities on spawn. In two loads of the Swedish start (i.e. by 1500), both times Spain was still confined to the northern part of the peninsular and Cordoba was still as powerful as ever. I hope with some more changes this general pattern can be rectified.

You may say that. But it doesn't really work that way at all. It's just as easy for the human player to win as Cordoba with this version. As I've already proven in an earlier post. All I needed to do was raise a small stack and raze the Spanish indies before Spain spawns. That way they only found Madrid and are crippled from then on. The 720 start in the previous version provided much better gameplay and there was little chance either side could win a quick blitz victory. Your solution may work for the AI but not for the human player. Now playing as either is just boring and short.
It looks like everyone else who's posted feels we should return to the 720 start. Everyone but you, it seems.
Can you please change it back to what it was in the previous version? And as I asked before, will we have a new version soon please?

 

[micbic]

About Iberia (a proposed model)
650. Indy Toledo spawns.
Cordoba spawns at 720, 2 settlers + Balanisyah flips
900 AD.Leon spawns as indy (flippable but strong enough to resist). Elsewhere, Barcino and A Coruna spawn (unflippable)
1017 AD (start of reign of Ferdinand) . Spain spawns at Burgos, 2 settlers + Leon flips, gets a good enough army to theoretically capture one city.
1100 AD. Portugal spawns, 3 settlers + modest army

Any thoughts?

 

[jessiecat]

About Iberia (a proposed model)
650. Indy Toledo spawns.
Cordoba spawns at 720, 2 settlers + Balanisyah flips
900 AD.Leon spawns as indy (flippable but strong enough to resist). Elsewhere, Barcino and A Coruna spawn (unflippable)
1017 AD (start of reign of Ferdinand) . Spain spawns at Burgos, 2 settlers + Leon flips, gets a good enough army to theoretically capture one city.
1100 AD. Portugal spawns, 3 settlers + modest army

Any thoughts?

Better, but I think most people prefer the 720 start with 1 or 2 flips. Just to illustrate how easy the human player can win as Cordoba, have a look at this. Unfortunately I just missed getting Cordoba to 12 but by 1041 I had razed all the indies except Barcelona. All that gold came in very handy. Spain founds Madrid and it just sits there without even using their 2nd. settler. This wouldn't have happened before, I don't think.

 

[micbic]

IMO the basic reason for which 720 is not a good spawn date for the Spanish is the fact that , at 720, there was no ''Spanish national identity'', the people were a mix of Visigoths and other indigenous people. Actually, the northern kingdoms of Spain at the 700-900 era were characterized as ''christian kingdoms'', and were mostly fighting each other rather than the Cordobans. Around 1000 these people started to understand that they are ''Spanish''.
BTW, I recall someone telling in much earlier posts that capturing a city should not be an option, but a ''must''. I agree (since razing turns into an exploit) And, to go further, barbs should only raze a city, and not capture it.