RFC Europe Wonders

[merijn_v1]

The images for Kremlin proposed are actually just images of one church that is a part of the Moscow Kremlin. the real kremlin is actually a fortified part of the city, the best image I have found is in Russian Wikipedia. You can see it if you look up the Moscow Kremlin in the english wikipedia and then switch to russian. its the big picture near the end of the article.

I know, but if you want the whole Kremlin for Art, it's way to big. I think this is the best building of all. If you have some better, you can place them, if it isn't too big to build.

 

[pan-slavist]

I see your point, the image I proposed would be too large and too difficult.
I saw the GP list, its quite good, but you included some not so prominent Kievan/Moscow GPs and didnt include the more prominent - as Afanasij Nikitin, who was kind of Marco Polo, but instead of China he visited India. Also, you have Alexander Bezborodko twice in the list. Also you included Alexander Sergejevic Pushkin but he was born 1799.

 

[sedna17]

We are (unless some more talented artist joins the mod) constrained to using pre-existing art we can find. To that end, my proposal is that we use the red walls seen here for the UB for Moscow (the Kremlin). This would essentially replace the artwork for the normal walls for this civ, but as the Kremlin is currently a castle-replacement and requires walls to build, there is no loss of visual information.

 

[jessiecat]

File Edited as per suggestions by pan-slavist.

Version 2. Thanks to pan-slavist for the corrections. I think this is the final version for coding.

And I like those walls. Good art for the Kremlin.

 

[sedna17]

Nice work on the GP-lists Jessiecat. It's in for the next version.

 

[jessiecat]

Nice work on the GP-lists Jessiecat. It's in for the next version.

Thanks. Just found a couple of bits of art in the downloads database which may be useful. They could be used for Islam, The Hanseatic League, Knights Templar plus some castles for other things.

 

[merijn_v1]

The last castle we already use as the Krak des Chevaliers. (on the pictures)

 

[pan-slavist]

Great work with the GPs but I still encountered some mistakes. Boris Gudanov should definitely be Boris Godunov, due to the game ending Pushkin and Liszt shouldnt be there(if you dont want people before 1800), Tycho Braye should be Tycho Brahe, Christoph Columbo should be at least Christopher Columbus if not Cristobal Colon, Nicomedus Tessinx should be Nicodemus Tessin, Gaza Yasargil was born 1925 so shouldnt be there, and Mata Hai is Mata Hari i guess who was a spy during the first world war so doesnt fall to our era. Sorry if im annoying just trying to make the game more accurate.

 

[jessiecat]

Great work with the GPs but I still encountered some mistakes. Boris Gudanov should definitely be Boris Godunov, due to the game ending Pushkin and Liszt shouldnt be there(if you dont want people before 1800), Tycho Braye should be Tycho Brahe, Christoph Columbo should be at least Christopher Columbus if not Cristobal Colon, Nicomedus Tessinx should be Nicodemus Tessin, Gaza Yasargil was born 1925 so shouldnt be there, and Mata Hai is Mata Hari i guess who was a spy during the first world war so doesnt fall to our era. Sorry if im annoying just trying to make the game more accurate.

You're right, of course. Thanks. A couple of them are just typing errors. I'll try to make those changes in time for the next version.

EDIT I have made all those changes. Hopefully thats finished now.

TO SEDNA If you want to fix the text error on the GP list please use this.

 

[sedna17]

TO SEDNA If you want to fix the text error on the GP list please use this.

Okay, will do.

 

[jessiecat]

I suggested a rethink on colonies and their prerequisites on another thread. In order that colonies become available in rough chronological order and are grouped more or less geographically I suggest the following list. The Far Eastern Treaty Ports are enabled by the West India Company which I realize is not really accurate but is necessary for balance. The idea is to roughly cover the timespan between 1500 and 1700 and the order the colonies were built;.

EAST INDIA COMPANY (enabled by Trading Companies)

enables > GOLD COAST (requires Liberalism)

...........> IVORY COAST (requires Nationalism)

...........> EAST AFRICA (requires Naval Architecture)

...........> INDIAN TRADING POSTS - 3 (requires Civil Engineering)

...........> EAST INDIES (requires Rights of Man)

...........> MALAYA (requires Economics)

WEST INDIA COMPANY (enabled by Trading Companies)

enables > CUBA (requires Liberalism)

...........> BRAZIL (requires Nationalism)

...........> VIRGINIA (requires Naval Architecture)

...........> FAR EASTERN TREATY PORTS - 3 (requires Civil Engineering)

...........> HUDSON BAY (requires Rights of Man)

...........> CAPETOWN (requires Economics)

This is just an outline but now that 3Miro has coded in the links it should be fairly easy to adjust them in any way we decide. What do people think?

 

[sedna17]

The Far Eastern Treaty Ports are enabled by the West India Company which I realize is not really accurate but is necessary for balance.

By this I take it you mean that otherwise the East India Company would have more colonies which it enables?

I don't have a problem with moving these guys around (it's easy to do), but your list is very symmetrical. Why do you think such exact correspondence is important? It has obviously warped somewhat your desire for temporal/geographic accuracy.

Personally I haven't had an opportunity to play test games with colonies yet, so I can't say I have a strong opinion on the question from a game-play perspective.

 

[jessiecat]

By this I take it you mean that otherwise the East India Company would have more colonies which it enables?

I don't have a problem with moving these guys around (it's easy to do), but your list is very symmetrical. Why do you think such exact correspondence is important? It has obviously warped somewhat your desire for temporal/geographic accuracy.

Personally I haven't had an opportunity to play test games with colonies yet, so I can't say I have a strong opinion on the question from a game-play perspective.

The reason I've made both lists symetrical is that neither Company path should provide any advantage for the human player in trying to build 3 colonies as a UHV requirement. This way it would be much harder to obtain 3 colonies in only one research path than it would in two as each one takes a successively longer research time. Having built both companies the player could try to build 2 colonies, then later 2 more etc. Rather than 1 colony at a time. Although I've had to make one sacrifice to geographic accuracy I have stuck pretty closely to an accurate historical time frame. The increasingly longer research times reflect that.

 

[Verily]

The "three colonies" UHVs have seemed, on the attempts I've made (using England and the Netherlands) to be a bit too easy.

One suggestion, I think, is to make the African projects not count as colonies. Colonization in Africa was negligible in the period we're covering; there were almost no European settlements or activities of any sort outside of a small handful of tiny forts and Dutch settlement in South Africa. If the African projects (particularly the Gold Coast and Ivory Coast) no longer required the East India Company but did not count towards the "three colonies" UHVs, it would allow Far Eastern Treaty Ports to be moved to the East India Company while maintaining some symmetry.

Another suggestion is to have the East India Company available earlier but have its colonies be more difficult to construct, while the West India Company is available later but gets a boost in colony construction from Slaves. (The eastern colonies really shouldn't get any production boost from Slaves.)

 

[sedna17]

Someone reported that the AI doesn't seem to build colonies. Can anyone confirm if this is true? I know we need to add a display for "colonies built" before we can ask people to help debug this...

Anyhow, if this is so, that contributes greatly to the "too easy to build" problem.

 

[jessiecat]

Someone reported that the AI doesn't seem to build colonies. Can anyone confirm if this is true? I know we need to add a display for "colonies built" before we can ask people to help debug this...

Anyhow, if this is so, that contributes greatly to the "too easy to build" problem.

I don't usually play beyond 1600 unless its to complete a UHV but I remember seeing the AI build a Company and at least one wonder I think. What the AI really loves to build is wonders and corporations. So there's no reason for them not to build colonies.
I don't agree that colonies are generally too easy to build however. In my experience, I've only managed that with England and Venice, who are a bit overpowered research-wise anyway IMO.

BTW I don't really agree that the African colonies are less important. The Gold Coast and Ivory Coast trading forts were the very first Portugese colonies and important for gold, ivory and particularly slaves as early as 1500. East Africa was important from the early Muslim period esp for ivory, slaves, spices and esp coffee and tropical fruit. Capetown, however, was pretty marginal before the mid 1700s.

 

[Lexad]

I built several colonies with Moscow in my recent UHV-testing pre 1600, after I got most military techs.

By the way, I purchased Atlantic Access from England - she had two - so I propose cutting their number. Also I'm not sure there should be one near Kobenhavn - Norse were never an oceanic colonial power.

 

[3Miro]

I built several colonies with Moscow in my recent UHV-testing pre 1600, after I got most military techs.

By the way, I purchased Atlantic Access from England - she had two - so I propose cutting their number. Also I'm not sure there should be one near Kobenhavn - Norse were never an oceanic colonial power.

Weren't the Norse the first to sail to America? Atlantic access does not guarantee colonies, just makes it easier. In either was, sedna and st Lucifer are the map experts.

 

[jessiecat]

Weren't the Norse the first to sail to America? Atlantic access does not guarantee colonies, just makes it easier. In either was, sedna and st Lucifer are the map experts.

You're right. And the Norse were certainly the first sea-going power in Europe, trading throughout the North Sea, the Baltic, and the Mediterranean, settling Sicily, Iceland, Greenland, England, Scotland and Ireland. As well as founding Novgorod and Kiev and trading with Constantinople via the Black Sea. A pretty formidable maritime nation IMO.

BTW I wouldn't cut Atlantic Access from 2 to 1. If the AI is stupid enough to trade one to the human player why discourage it? One question though. In previous versions you could build colonies without Atlantic Access. If that's no longer the case, good. If it and a trading company are both required to build a colony, then that's how it should be. Right?

 

[Lexad]

You're right. And the Norse were certainly the first sea-going power in Europe, trading throughout the North Sea, the Baltic, and the Mediterranean, settling Sicily, Iceland, Greenland, England, Scotland and Ireland. As well as founding Novgorod and Kiev and trading with Constantinople via the Black Sea. A pretty formidable maritime nation IMO.

Formidable maritime nation - yes. Settlers and traders - yes. Mass transocean colonization and trade (read Atlantic Access) - no. However, it's up to you, I just wanted to point out what I considered an inconsistency.

By the way they did not found Novgorod or Kiev, they were invited as a rulers (according to Russian scrolls; more naturally would be to assume the military subjugation).

BTW I wouldn't cut Atlantic Access from 2 to 1. If the AI is stupid enough to trade one to the human player why discourage it?

Well, AI is stupid, no news here. If you're not one of the colonial powers, obtaining Atlantic Access should require a strain from you, IMO.

In previous versions you could build colonies without Atlantic Access. If that's no longer the case, good. If it and a trading company are both required to build a colony, then that's how it should be. Right?

In my game I first built East Africa, then started China, then traded for Access resource, then built East and West Indies. So far Access just seems to decrease the costs of some colonial projects.
P.S. I believe I have March 7 version.