RFC Europe Wonders

[Cethegus]

Question: could it be made so that Jewish quarters auto-build themselves in cities based on different events? Player or AI couldn't have any direct power over this which means the Jewish Quarters would be passively "spread" to cities through Jewish immigrants, much like religion. If possible, I suggest this same could be done with Gypsies because they've had a lot of history in Europe ever since the fall of Rome. Perhaps not give them a wonder of their own, though.

The spreading could be encouraged or discouraged through civics, if need be. Good idea, bad idea, already suggested?

 

[jessiecat]

Question: could it be made so that Jewish quarters auto-build themselves in cities based on different events? Player or AI couldn't have any direct power over this which means the Jewish Quarters would be passively "spread" to cities through Jewish immigrants, much like religion. If possible, I suggest this same could be done with Gypsies because they've had a lot of history in Europe ever since the fall of Rome. Perhaps not give them a wonder of their own, though.

The spreading could be encouraged or discouraged through civics, if need be. Good idea, bad idea, already suggested?

Good idea. Maybe they could spread via trade routes between cities and civs automatically once a city reaches X amount of population and wealth? Which could be effected by certain civics like you say. Though spreading Gypsies in the same way might be more difficult. To what effect? So Yes to the 1st. idea and but NO for the 2nd. IMO.

 

[3Miro]

There was a post some tome ago that decided how the Jews would spread, it was more or less what you suggested. I generally disagree with the Gypsy idea, what was the Gypsy achievement. We could make them an event, but not a building.

 

[Arwon]

If you want a very influential Jewish community, the one in Prague is a good choice. There was 7 synagogues there.

 

[Hangly Man]

Keeping the Oxford University seems even better for me.

How can you have Oxford and overlook more important universities like the ones in Paris or Bolognia?

 

[Cethegus]

There was a post some tome ago that decided how the Jews would spread, it was more or less what you suggested. I generally disagree with the Gypsy idea, what was the Gypsy achievement. We could make them an event, but not a building.

Sounds excellently fine by me. And yes, I would have been very surprised if someone else hadn't thought of that before.

 

[jessiecat]

There was a post some tome ago that decided how the Jews would spread, it was more or less what you suggested. I generally disagree with the Gypsy idea, what was the Gypsy achievement. We could make them an event, but not a building.

A Gypsy event? How about this?

A Gypsy caravan turns up outside your city. A guy in traditional costume starts playing a violin. A girl starts dancing. (cue lively gypsy music) Meanwhile his mates are picking pockets and nicking the silverware.
Effect: +1 culture, -1 gold for 5 turns, followed by 1 turn of unhappiness.

 

[micbic]

How can you have Oxford and overlook more important universities like the ones in Paris or Bolognia?

Good point, actually the Bologna one was the eldest in Europe, but I proposed that since it doesn't need that much work (most notably artwork)

 

[sedna17]

Good point, actually the Bologna one was the eldest in Europe, but I proposed that since it doesn't need that much work (most notably artwork)

Here here (so sayth the Cantabrigian).

 

[st.lucifer]

How can you have Oxford and overlook more important universities like the ones in Paris or Bolognia?

I think the consensus on that was to rename it something like 'national university' (as a national wonder), for precisely that reason. It's not hard to come up with an elite national university (or two) for our civs, but picking the Sorbonne over Bologna or Oxford over either is a tough call.

 

[sedna17]

Okay - time to start adding more wonders.

I will add the basic XML and art/movies (where available) for something like this list of wonders. For ones which re-use/modify old powers that will be that. For new powers, I'll ask 3Miro for help, but in the first release these new powers won't work and people will complain about it on the feedback thread and I'll ignore them.

Our path on Colonies/Corporations/Projects is less clear. I think what makes sense/has been decided is this:

The corporations mechanism will be included at a later date and focus on cross-national entities with lots of branches within Europe such as: Medici Bank, The Ausberg Banking Families, Hanseatic league, Templars, Hospitallers, and Teutonic Knights.

All colonies will be implemented as "Projects" rather than Buildings/Wonders. This prevents rushing with engineers and means they are not established in one particular city in a civilization and thus can't be captured directly. East/West India companies (and possibly others?) will be special enabling projects, much like the Apollo project enables spaceships, except probably granting a significant production bonus rather than boolean enable/disable (so maybe more like the Space Elevator).

The Projects xml is currently very limited, much more limited than for buildings. We will have to significantly expand the xml schema and associated SDK code in order to do this. However, we would probably have to expand the xml schema even for buildings IF we wanted to make colonies "buildings", and so it probably makes more sense to start "clean" with projects.

Another nice proposal (sorry, don't remember who proposed it) is that colony production could be dramatically accelerated by or require a resource "Access to the Atlantic", which would be an abstract resource representing a trade route to the Atlantic. A couple such resources would be present around the coasts of several countries (Portugal, Spain, France, England, Netherlands, Denmark/Normway?). These resources would be "worked" by a workboat to establish a "trade-route" which would then provide this resource and associated ease of colony building. Surplus "Access" could be traded by the Atlantic nations to more land-locked nations. A "trade-route" could be pillaged by pirates or in war (we'd make the pillage worth a lot of gold), thus requiring players to maintain a navy to protect these resources at least as long as they wish to build colonies. This is a rather abstract mechanism, but by piggy-backing on top of an existing mechanism, I think it will work well for the AI.

 

[BurnEmDown]

I think your last paragraph is a great Idea. This would greatly increase naval activity in the mod and give sea access more strategic value.

 

[st.lucifer]

Another nice proposal (sorry, don't remember who proposed it) is that colony production could be dramatically accelerated by or require a resource "Access to the Atlantic", which would be an abstract resource representing a trade route to the Atlantic. A couple such resources would be present around the coasts of several countries (Portugal, Spain, France, England, Netherlands, Denmark/Normway?). These resources would be "worked" by a workboat to establish a "trade-route" which would then provide this resource and associated ease of colony building. Surplus "Access" could be traded by the Atlantic nations to more land-locked nations. A "trade-route" could be pillaged by pirates or in war (we'd make the pillage worth a lot of gold), thus requiring players to maintain a navy to protect these resources at least as long as they wish to build colonies. This is a rather abstract mechanism, but by piggy-backing on top of an existing mechanism, I think it will work well for the AI.

I don't remember whose idea this was, either, but I like it. We're going to have to make timber a requirement for the colonial projects, as well.

 

[sedna17]

I don't remember whose idea this was, either, but I like it. We're going to have to make timber a requirement for the colonial projects, as well.

Requiring Timber and "Atlantic Access" would be pretty harsh. Specifically, that would mean that you could be 90% of the way to getting a colony -- lose one resource, and suddenly be back to square one. I guess it's not unrealistic, but I wonder how frustrating it would be.

I'll create an XML-schema with the possibility for multiple requirements and the possibility for bonuses providing production multipliers, and we can try out a couple different possibilities.

 

[Chrismarck]

Hi
maybe my list will help you - or give you some ideas


Voting Wonders:
Apostolic Palace, Rome / Italy
Council of Europe, Strassbourg / France

National Wonders:
Scotland Yard, London / England
Versailles, Paris / France
Eremitage, St. Petersburg / Russia
Red Cross, Geneva / Switzerland

Product Wonders:
Dance Event - Love Parade, Berlin / Germany
Beer & Pretzel - Oktoberfest, Munich / Germany
Pop Music - Abbey Road Studios, London / England
Drama Theater - Globe Theatre, London / England
Film Hits - Cinecittà, Rome / Italy
Opera Ball - Vienna State Opera, Vienna / Austria
Classical Ballet - Bolschoi-Theater, Moscow / Russia
Automobile - Geneva Motor Show, Geneva / Switzerland

Unique Wonders:
Belgium / Brussels - Atomium
Denmark / Copenhagen - Nysted Havmøllepark
Bosnia & Herzegovina / Mostar - Stari Most
Germany / Berlin - Brandenburg Gate
Germany / Füssen - Neuschwanstein Castle
England / Greenwich - Royal Observatory
Finnland / Helsinki - Suomenlinna
France / Calais & England / Dover - Channel Tunnel
France / Cluny - Cluny Abbey
France / Paris - Eiffel Tower
France / Paris - Notre Dame
Italy / Pisa - Lean Tower of Pisa
Italy / Venice - Doge's Palace
Italy / Rome - Sistine Chapel
Croatia / Split - Diocletian's Palace
Monaco / Monaco - Monte Carlo Casino
Norway / Bergen - Tyskebryggen
Netherlands / Middleburg - Delta Works
Netherlands / Rotterdam - Europoort
Austria / Vienna - Prater
Austria / Vienna - Spanish Riding School
Poland / Gdansk - Crane Gate
Portugal / Lisboa - Torre de Belém
Rumania / Bucharest - Parlament's Palace
Russia / Moscow - Kremlin
Russia / Moscow - Red Square
Russia / Moscow - Sputnik Program
Sweden / Stockholm - Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
Spain / Barcelona - Sagrada Familia
Spain / Granada - Alhambra
Ukraine / Odessa - Potemkin Stairs
Turkey / Istanbul - Hagia Sophia
Turkey / Istanbul - Basilica Cistern
Czechia / Prague - Charles Bridge


Have fun!

 

[micbic]

Hi
maybe my list will help you - or give you some ideas


Voting Wonders:
Apostolic Palace, Rome / Italy
Council of Europe, Strassbourg / France

National Wonders:
Scotland Yard, London / England
Versailles, Paris / France
Eremitage, St. Petersburg / Russia
Red Cross, Geneva / Switzerland

Product Wonders:
Dance Event - Love Parade, Berlin / Germany
Beer & Pretzel - Oktoberfest, Munich / Germany
Pop Music - Abbey Road Studios, London / England
Drama Theater - Globe Theatre, London / England
Film Hits - Cinecittà, Rome / Italy
Opera Ball - Vienna State Opera, Vienna / Austria
Classical Ballet - Bolschoi-Theater, Moscow / Russia
Automobile - Geneva Motor Show, Geneva / Switzerland

Unique Wonders:
Belgium / Brussels - Atomium
Denmark / Copenhagen - Nysted Havmøllepark
Bosnia & Herzegovina / Mostar - Stari Most
Germany / Berlin - Brandenburg Gate
Germany / Füssen - Neuschwanstein Castle
England / Greenwich - Royal Observatory
Finnland / Helsinki - Suomenlinna
France / Calais & England / Dover - Channel Tunnel
France / Cluny - Cluny Abbey
France / Paris - Eiffel Tower
France / Paris - Notre Dame
Italy / Pisa - Lean Tower of Pisa
Italy / Venice - Doge's Palace
Italy / Rome - Sistine Chapel
Croatia / Split - Diocletian's Palace
Monaco / Monaco - Monte Carlo Casino
Norway / Bergen - Tyskebryggen
Netherlands / Middleburg - Delta Works
Netherlands / Rotterdam - Europoort
Austria / Vienna - Prater
Austria / Vienna - Spanish Riding School
Poland / Gdansk - Crane Gate
Portugal / Lisboa - Torre de Belém
Rumania / Bucharest - Parlament's Palace
Russia / Moscow - Kremlin
Russia / Moscow - Red Square
Russia / Moscow - Sputnik Program
Sweden / Stockholm - Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
Spain / Barcelona - Sagrada Familia
Spain / Granada - Alhambra
Ukraine / Odessa - Potemkin Stairs
Turkey / Istanbul - Hagia Sophia
Turkey / Istanbul - Basilica Cistern
Czechia / Prague - Charles Bridge


Have fun!

Firstly, welcome to the forums!
For the list: It is not a bad one (some suggestions are kinda good), but the mod refers to Middle-to-Industrial Ages, so some of them (eg Sputnik Program) are unsuitable. I don't know, also, what would others think for civ-unique wonders.

 

[jessiecat]

Firstly, welcome to the forums!
For the list: It is not a bad one (some suggestions are kinda good), but the mod refers to Middle-to-Industrial Ages, so some of them (eg Sputnik Program) are unsuitable. I don't know, also, what would others think for civ-unique wonders.

I agree that some suggestions on that list are good. Many are already on our suggested list which has been discussed and revised for several months. But, like you say, far too many are too late for our mod which ends in 1800. And I don't really like the idea of civ-unique wonders other than the 4 or 5 National Wonders we have already agreed on. All the rest should be World Wonders or projects available to all civs, in my opinion. Suggestions or additions are always welcome but I think we've got a basic list decided and should be trying to implement most of that ASAP.

 

[sedna17]

Yeah, I don't like Civ-specific wonders. We could tie some wonders to a specific state religion, but Civ has long lived with the historical oddities not doing so has produced.

 

[st.lucifer]

Yeah, I don't like Civ-specific wonders. We could tie some wonders to a specific state religion, but Civ has long lived with the historical oddities not doing so has produced.

Agreed. I think that having a wonder to represent each civ is plenty of concession - having a unique wonder for every civ would just represent another powerful thing to balance, unless they all had the same function, which would be ridiculous.

 

[Cethegus]

Agreed. I think that having a wonder to represent each civ is plenty of concession - having a unique wonder for every civ would just represent another powerful thing to balance, unless they all had the same function, which would be ridiculous.

One could ask himself how "unique" they would then be.