RFC Europe Wonders

[civmademepoor]

A thought I had while reading over the suggestions, all of which I like in their various ways, but to me they seem primarily medieval/early Renaissance, particularly as we parse it down. I think much of the game, especially for the late spawners, really starts to take off in the 16th and 17th centuries, so some things like the Globe theatre, Wren's St. Paul's (maybe allow a no anarchy revolution?), JS Bach's cathedral, Newton's college, hopefully buildable for Genoa, Austria, Moscow, the Turks, etc. . ., if not Holland and Sweden.

 

[Hangly Man]

The Temple of Solomon
The Wailing Wall

Aren't these the same thing?

The Jewish Quarter of Krakow (Poland) -art to be found

I realize these are both historically and culturally very significant, but how are fragments of buildings or ethnic neighborhoods wonders of the world?
Just how many hammers does it take to construct a Jewish neighborhood, anyway? Can I hurry it with a great engineer?

 

[XenoSaber]

Aren't these the same thing?



I realize these are both historically and culturally very significant, but how are fragments of buildings or ethnic neighborhoods wonders of the world?
Just how many hammers does it take to construct a Jewish neighborhood, anyway? Can I hurry it with a great engineer?

Actually, the Temple of Solomon is the first Jewish Temple, destroyed by the Babylonians. The Wailing Wall is the largest ruin from the second Jewish Temple, built under the patronage of King Herod, and destroyed by the Romans during the Jewish Revolts during the latter half of the 1st century.

And do Wonders need to be wonders of the world? Or just wonders of Europe? It might be valuable to look at UNESCO World Heritage sites in Europe for ideas.

 

[Hangly Man]

Actually, the Temple of Solomon is the first Jewish Temple, destroyed by the Babylonians. The Wailing Wall is the largest ruin from the second Jewish Temple, built under the patronage of King Herod, and destroyed by the Romans during the Jewish Revolts during the latter half of the 1st century.

And do Wonders need to be wonders of the world? Or just wonders of Europe? It might be valuable to look at UNESCO World Heritage sites in Europe for ideas.

The fact that you build them would at least indicate that they're at least national projects of some kind.

If an ethnic minority neighborhood is deemed significant enough to be included, why not make it an event?

"The [religion] minority in [city name] is [doing something]. Do you wish to:

A [option]
B [option]
C [option]"

Or somesuch.

 

[XenoSaber]

The fact that you build them would at least indicate that they're at least national projects of some kind.

If an ethnic minority neighborhood is deemed significant enough to be included, why not make it an event?

"The [religion] minority in [city name] is [doing something]. Do you wish to:

A [option]
B [option]
C [option]"

Or somesuch.

How many world wonders were national projects? Obviously some were, but others just put up by the locals, so to speak. Though I do think that an ethnic neighborhood or quarter is just too vague for a world wonder (national wonder, on the other hand...).

 

[Hangly Man]

How many world wonders were national projects? Obviously some were, but others just put up by the locals, so to speak. Though I do think that an ethnic neighborhood or quarter is just too vague for a world wonder (national wonder, on the other hand...).

What I'm trying to say is that they were projects, not commonplace and naturally-occurring things like ruins and neighborhoods.

 

[Cethegus]

How many world wonders were national projects? Obviously some were, but others just put up by the locals, so to speak. Though I do think that an ethnic neighborhood or quarter is just too vague for a world wonder (national wonder, on the other hand...).

Will we then be handing out Jewish quarters all around Europe?

Good event suggestion, by the way.

 

[micbic]

Will we then be handing out Jewish quarters all around Europe?

Good event suggestion, by the way.

The actual fun thing is that Jewish Quarters will spread around Europe and Judaism won't be existent as a religion.

 

[jessiecat]

The actual fun thing is that Jewish Quarters will spread around Europe and Judaism won't be existent as a religion.

Just think of it simply as a "non-ethnospecific secular socio-economic cultural phenomena with variable individual political, diplomatic and financial penalties or rewards". In short, not a religion as we know it, Captain.

 

[Hangly Man]

The actual fun thing is that Jewish Quarters will spread around Europe and Judaism won't be existent as a religion.

If you're going to add Jewish quarters you may as well add Gypsy wagons for completeness.

 

[Cethegus]

If you're going to add Jewish quarters you may as well add Gypsy wagons for completeness.

We might replace one Plague wave with a semi-permanent Gypsy settlement. Or an event.

 

[merijn_v1]

When I played I had 2 vassals (burgundy, Genoa). I also had the Topkapi Palace. When I upgraded my Crossbowmen into Heavy Crossbowmen they didn't become Balestrieri. (UU of my vassal Genoa) Does the Topkapi only allow you to train your vassals UU and not to upgrade to that units? Or is there a mistake?

 

[jessiecat]

When I played I had 2 vassals (burgundy, Genoa). I also had the Topkapi Palace. When I upgraded my Crossbowmen into Heavy Crossbowmen they didn't become Balestrieri. (UU of my vassal Genoa) Does the Topkapi only allow you to train your vassals UU and not to upgrade to that units? Or is there a mistake?

No. The Topkapi Palace only allows you to train your vassals UU not to upgrade all your other units to the UU AFAIK.

 

[Hangly Man]

Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but the Library of Cordoba should be in there somewhere. At the time of its capture there were more books in Cordoba's central library than in the whole of France.

Cordoba should start with it, and it could give them a culture or research boost. But capturing it could give the conqueror either several new techs, start a golden age, or halve the cost of research for a set number of turns. This to simulate the massive influx of Arab science into Europe after the library was captured.

 

[Hangly Man]

I think Crusades would work well as an Event. Like the "Horse Whisperer" quest in vanilla. You can have different levels of bonuses depending on how well the Crusade went.

Sounds like either the 'Greed' or 'Holy Mountain' events.

Perhaps it could be scripted so the target is always Jerusalem, and every Catholic civ gets the same quest at once.

Bonus points if you trash Byzantium on the way there

 

[Hangly Man]

Not exactly a wonder, but could monastic orders be included as well? They could take the place of corporations.

Each is founded with a great prophet (hey, GPs have to be good for something, right?) and each would have a slightly different effect. Extra hammers for the Benedictines, Science for the Jesuits, culture for the Franciscans, health for the Knights Templar, etc. Having the Jesuits in your city would have the added effect of eliminating all non-Catholic religions in that city. Could replace generic monasteries if people were feeling ambitious.

Then limit them the same way vanilla civ does. Monastic orders only function under Theocracy (or similar civics,) and can only be spread to other theocratic civs. Switching away from theocracy eliminates all the monasteries.

Switching to Protestantism gives you a one-time bonus of 50 gold per monastery eliminated, which you can use to finance for your disastrous foreign wars and pay for your many divorces.

 

[st.lucifer]

Not exactly a wonder, but could monastic orders be included as well? They could take the place of corporations.

Each is founded with a great prophet (hey, GPs have to be good for something, right?) and each would have a slightly different effect. Extra hammers for the Benedictines, Science for the Jesuits, culture for the Franciscans, health for the Knights Templar, etc. Having the Jesuits in your city would have the added effect of eliminating all non-Catholic religions in that city. Could replace generic monasteries if people were feeling ambitious.

Then limit them the same way vanilla civ does. Monastic orders only function under Theocracy (or similar civics,) and can only be spread to other theocratic civs. Switching away from theocracy eliminates all the monasteries.

Switching to Protestantism gives you a one-time bonus of 50 gold per monastery eliminated, which you can use to finance for your disastrous foreign wars and pay for your many divorces.

This suggestion is already due for implementation later (we haven't gotten to that part of the code yet). We're not using all of them - we have a couple of banking families and trading leagues to fill the rest of the slots - but the plan is to have the Templars give a commerce bonus, the Hospitallers as a health bonus, the Jesuits espionage, etc.

I'm fully in support of this idea.

 

[Arwon]

Its just that we wanted to have a World Wonder from each of our civs. So far the only one suggested which is Spanish is the Giralda Tower. It was built originally by the Moors as the minaret for the Great Mosque of Seville but I guess everybody thinks of it as being Spanish now.
The two likely ones for Cordoba are the "Alhambra Palace" in Granada and the "Gardens of Al Andalus"
(replacing the Hanging Gardens) to represent the Arab irrigation and agricultural revolution in Andalusia during the 9th.-11th.Cs.

If you want something purely Castillian with no Moorish history, what about Santiago de Compostela? Especially since it's dedicated to St James, the Moorslayer and thus intimately tied up with the reconquista.

Maybe it could increase state religion spread/reduce non-state religion spread or something. Alternatively, it could simulate the pilgrammage effect of the Camino de Santiago, and give gold for religious buildings, or duplicate the Temple of Artemis, or add new trade routes in all cities (not just coastal)?

Another later possibility for Spain - La Lonja in Valencia, the silk exchange, maybe providing some silk resources or trade routes or something else depicting the Aragonese Mediterranean commerce centred in Valencia and Barcelona.

I'd suggest the Alcázar in Sevilla for Córdoba but I guess it is a little redundant.

 

[jessiecat]

If you want something purely Castillian with no Moorish history, what about Santiago de Compostela? Especially since it's dedicated to St James, the Moorslayer and thus intimately tied up with the reconquista.

Maybe it could increase state religion spread/reduce non-state religion spread or something. Alternatively, it could simulate the pilgrammage effect of the Camino de Santiago, and give gold for religious buildings, or duplicate the Temple of Artemis, or add new trade routes in all cities (not just coastal)?

Another later possibility for Spain - La Lonja[/i] in Valencia, the silk exchange, maybe providing some silk resources or trade routes or something else depicting the Aragonese Mediterranean commerce centred in Valencia and Barcelona.

I'd suggest the Alcázar in Sevilla for Córdoba but I guess it is a little redundant.

I like the idea of the Camino de Santiago as a religious wonder. La Lonja would be a good one though few players would know of it. Only a few people like you and I may have been in it. Amazing building. Wonderful acoustics.
Hopefully, now that our two modders will be free to resume their work soon we'll get quite a few of the wonders we have agreed on into the game.

Just to show people what Arwon's referring to, here's a shot of La Lonja de la Seda. (The Silk Exchange) in Valencia.

 

[Arwon]

There's a Lonja in Zaragoza too, but it isn't as nice. ):