RFC Europe Wonders

[Chrismarck]

Thanks for your welcome

I think, I used the wrong word for my list - "unique" should not be a civ-specific wonder - just the "normal" wonders

I'm sorry, that I didnt read that the wonders should be from Middle-to-Industrial Ages - the last months I looked up here now and than.

 

[jessiecat]

Thanks for your welcome

I think, I used the wrong word for my list - "unique" should not be a civ-specific wonder - just the "normal" wonders

I'm sorry, that I didnt read that the wonders should be from Middle-to-Industrial Ages - the last months I looked up here now and than.

If you check back to post 154, you'll see the list we've been working from. The bolded wonders are already in the game. The rest are waiting to be coded. We may not use every one and we could add others but that is the basic list we've agreed so far, more or less. I welcome your input as well and look forward to seeing your suggestions in future.

 

[jessiecat]

As requested by sedna 17, I've done some work on the colonies that exist in the latest test version (Jan. 31st) and suggested 2 more for inclusion.
First of all, we've got the East India Company and West India Company needing Free Market to build them. That condition would make colony building come too late in the mod IMO. Therefore I propose dropping that condition so they can be built on researching Trading Companies. I've suggested 2 additional colonies, namely the Virginia Company, mostly for tobacco, annd the East Africa Company for coffee. Coffee originated in South Arabia and Ethiopia then spread through East Africa, the Middle East and the East Indies before 1800. From there it was exported to Europe. Even though today most coffee today comes from Brazil and Central America, at no point in the life of this mod was it grown anywhere in the New World. I've also made some changes to Sugar and would argue for its inclusion as a widespread Meditteranian resource as well. Anyway here is my revised list for the colonies, with their requisite techs and resources.

East India Company - enabled by Trading Companies
(allows Gold Coast, East Africa, East Indies, Indian Trading Post,
Far Eastern Trading Port and Malaysia -50% build cost)

West India Company -enabled by Trading Companies
(allows Cuba, Hudson Bay, Brazil, Virginia Colony, Ivory Coast,
and Capetown -50% build cost)
..............................................................................................

East Africa -enabled by Nationalism -gives 4 coffee, 2 slaves

Cuba - enabled by Nationalism - gives 4 sugar, 2 tobacco

East Indies - enabled by Liberalism - gives 4 spices, 2 coffee

Brazil - enabled by Liberalism - gives 4 sugar, 2 gems

Indian Trading Post - enabled by Naval Architecture - gives 4 cotton, 2 silk

Hudsons Bay - enabled by Naval Architecture - gives 4 furs, 2 tobacco

Gold Coast - enabled by Civil Engineering - gives 4 slaves, 2 ivory

Virginia Colony - enabled by Civil Engineering - gives 4 tobacco, 2 cotton

Ivory Coast - enabled by Economics - gives 4 ivory, 2 gems

Far Eastern Treaty Port - enabled by Economics - gives 4 silk, 2 tea

Capetown - enabled by Rights of Man - gives 4 wine, 2 gems

Malaysia - enabled by Rights of Man - gives 4 tea, 2 spices


Edit. There is another important resource that should be included but I'm not sure how you could represent it with a colony. For at least a 100 years before Columbus there was a huge trade in salted cod throughout Europe, supplied exclusively by Basque fishermen who regularly visited the Grand Banks of Newfoundland, drying, smoking and salting their fish before trading it throughout Europe. It was so important to the Catholic Church for supplying Friday fish to inland Europe that they subsidized the Basques and bankrolled their fleet. So the Basques became very rich and the Church happily kept their secret. So much so that when the French explorer Jacques Cartier "discovered" Canada in 1534 he was amazed to find hundreds of Basque fishermen already there. I think "Who the hell are these guys?" was probably the phrase. Later it became an important component of the triangular English trans-Atlantic trade. ie. Jamaican sugar> African slaves> Newfoundland salt cod.

 

[sedna17]

Thanks, this is exactly what I looking for.

I don't know how to include salt cod either, though of course we could have a "Newfoundland" or generic "New England" (would want a less prejudicial name) colony which supplied the health resources fish and salt.

 

[jessiecat]

Thanks, this is exactly what I looking for.

I don't know how to include salt cod either, though of course we could have a "Newfoundland" or generic "New England" (would want a less prejudicial name) colony which supplied the health resources fish and salt.

Thanks. I guess "Newfoundland" would be best as that's where the main fishing grounds were
(+ New England area as well). You wouldn't need salt as the Basques brought their own.
The fish was wind-dried and salted on the shore then transported home. (That's all they ate
on the way back). Maybe it could just supply 6 dried fish.

 

[BurnEmDown]

I think there should be a migration event for civs with companies in the new world. The migration should happen only in the angriest and sickest cities of course, and only once in a while.

 

[3Miro]

I think there should be a migration event for civs with companies in the new world. The migration should happen only in the angriest and sickest cities of course, and only once in a while.

Was the immigration in the early years as powerful as to have a depopulation effect in Europe. In anyway it would have to be small since it may give big disadvantage to the Colonial powers.

 

[jessiecat]

Was the immigration in the early years as powerful as to have a depopulation effect in Europe. In anyway it would have to be small since it may give big disadvantage to the Colonial powers.

You're right. A depletion of population might just negate whatever advantage the civ gets from its colony.
Kind of counter-productive IMO.

 

[BurnEmDown]

Then how about turn it into some kind of an ability? If one of your cities has a lot of angry citizens, one could send some away to reduce the angry people, and perhaps get some bonus from it.

 

[3Miro]

Then how about turn it into some kind of an ability? If one of your cities has a lot of angry citizens, one could send some away to reduce the angry people, and perhaps get some bonus from it.

Other than Rush (whip, send to the new world) people to get Colonial Projects done, I don't see how this could play.

 

[civmademepoor]

For the cod, it might work well as a quest. Maybe get three fishing boats first to the fish resources in the far west of the map? We'd have to allow these boats to fish outside of cultural borders though, or ascribe that ability to another unit.

 

[Verily]

Some comments on colonial names...

It should be Malaya, not Malaysia; the latter name was not used until the merger of Malaya and Singapore in the 20th century.

If we want to be origin-neutral, New England isn't the only problematic name. So are Virginia, Hudson's Bay, Cuba and Brazil.

 

[sedna17]

Good point on Malaya, we'll change that name. Of course various other colony names are somewhat civ-specific, but don't you think New England would be a whole other class of odd if anyone BUT England were to build it? A moot point anyway, since we won't include it. I think the flavor of maintaining the rest of the names is well worth any odd counter-factual-historical names which may arise.

 

[st.lucifer]

Thanks, this is exactly what I looking for.

I don't know how to include salt cod either, though of course we could have a "Newfoundland" or generic "New England" (would want a less prejudicial name) colony which supplied the health resources fish and salt.

We could split fish into 'herring' and 'cod', with herring being widely available and cod being more rare.

If we start adding more health resources, we may want to start imposing larger health penalties on large cities, though.

 

[3Miro]

We could split fish into 'herring' and 'cod', with herring being widely available and cod being more rare.

If we start adding more health resources, we may want to start imposing larger health penalties on large cities, though.

Add some early pre-industrial factories. Wasn't there some sort of pre-assembly line manufacturing widely spread in Europe. We could include it as a building and make it produce health penalty just as in regular civ.

 

[sedna17]

I think two sorts of fish would be confusing.

 

[civmademepoor]

Perhaps we could ascribe different values, +3 food for cod, +3 food, +1 health and -1 happiness for herring, +1 food, +1 happiness and +1 gold for turbot?

Seriously, the Grand Banks could be an option. If we do it, it might include a +1 happiness to represent religious freedom and reduced crime in the colonizing city. (prostitutes and neardowells were shipped from France, zealots and other assorted radicals from Britain and Ireland). However, I'm not convinced that is a fully adequate representation of New England or New France, but does kind of encapsulate both. Timber also might not be a bad resource to add to those. New England timber was a critical resource for the Empire prior to independence.

 

[jessiecat]

I'd be fine with either the Grand Banks or Newfoundland as a pre-colonial project needing Shipbuilding and Atlantic Access like someone suggested. Cod would be the special resource. Some cod could be placed near Iceland as well. Other fish are available around Europe's coasts anyway.

 

[jessiecat]

National Wonders

National Theatre (replaces Globe Theatre) included *
National Gallery (replaces Hermitage) *
National University (replaces Oxford University) *
National Epic (as RFC) *
Heroic Epic (as RFC) *
- Royal Academy (replaces Great Library) -suggested

Projects (3)

Atlantic Access (enabled by Astronomy)*
East India Company *
West India Company *
Hanseatic Ports (suggested)
Medici Bank (suggested)
Knights Templar (suggested)

Colonies (17 included)

Brazil
Cuba
Capetown
East Africa
East Indies
Gold Coast
Ivory Coast
Hudson Bay
Malaya
Virginia
Far Eastern Treaty Ports (4 allowed)
Indian Trading Posts (3 allowed)

World Wonders (14 included)

Forbidden Palace * (included)
Summer Palace *
The Sistine Chapel, Rome *
Versailles, Paris *
Notre Dame, Paris *
The Leaning Tower, Pisa *
The Theodosian Walls, Constantinople *
Topkapi Palace, Constantinople *
Shrine of Uppsala, Norse *
Krak des Chevaliers *
The Monastery of Cluny *
The Round Church *
The Alhambra Palace *
The Palacio de Pena *

These have been suggested but not yet implemented:

The Tomb of Khalid ibn Al Walid (replaces the Statue of Zeus, enemies suffer 100% war weariness,
+1 Great General.)
The Dome of the Rock, Jerusalem (replaces the Taj Mahal, starts Golden Age +1 Great. Artist?)
Kalmar Castle, Sweden (replaces The Pentagon, all new units rec. +1 experience point?))
The Gardens of Al Andalus, Cordoba (replaces the Hanging Gardens, +1 health, +1 food per city)
The Golden Bull, Hungary (replaces the Shwedagon Paya, enables all religion civics)
The Brandenburg Gate, Berlin (replaces The Kremlin, -33% production costs in all cities)
The Basilica San Marco, Venice (replaces the Temple of Artemis, +100% trade routes + 1 Great Merchant)
The Palazzo San Giorgio, Genoa (replaces the Statue of Liberty, +1 free specialist per city, 1 Great Merchant)
The Escorial Palace, Spain (replaces the Spiral Minaret, +1 gold per all state religion buildings)
La Scala Opera House, Milan (replaces The Eiffel Tower. free monument per city)
St. Basil's Cathedral, Moscow (replaces The Mausoleum of Maussalos, +50% Golden Age length,
+1 Great Artist.)
St. Sophia Cathedral, Kiev (replaces Angkor Wat,+1 hammer per priest, can turn 3 citizens into priest))
The Jewish Quarter of Krakov, Poland (establishes Judaism in every large city?)
The Temple Mount, Jerusalem (replaces the Temple of Solomon)
Leonardo's Inventions, Italy (1 free scientist, 1 free artist in each city?)
The Copernican Revolution, Poland (as in Civ3)
Issac Newton's Laboratory, England (as in Civ3)
Magellan's Voyage, Portugal (as in Civ3)
Rembrandt's Masterpiece, Amsterdam (culture + happiness boost in all cities?)
Mozart's Concertos, Vienna (free theatres in all cities?)
Magna Carta, England (replaces the Pyramids, enables all govt. types)
Aztec Conquest?
Inca Conquest?[/QUOTE]

Just to update our list of wonders, projects and colonies. What is bolded has been included. What is not is still to be decided and/or implemented.

 

[BurnEmDown]

How can you have "+1 Great General" From wonder when GG are born only from combat experience?