RFC Europe Wonders

[merijn_v1]

The Copernican Revolution, Poland (as in Civ3)
Issac Newton's Laboratory, England (as in Civ3)
Magellan's Voyage, Portugal (as in Civ3)

I have played Civ 3 but I don't remember what the power of those Wonders were. Could you give me the Powers, please?

 

[Panopticon]

Have you considered turning the "Projects" other than Atlantic Access into heavily modified Corporations?

 

[Chrismarck]

National Wonders

National Theatre (replaces Globe Theatre) included *
National Gallery (replaces Hermitage) *
National University (replaces Oxford University) *
National Epic (as RFC) *
Heroic Epic (as RFC) *
- Royal Academy (replaces Great Library) -suggested

great

Projects (3)

Atlantic Access (enabled by Astronomy)*
East India Company *
West India Company *
Hanseatic Ports (suggested)
Medici Bank (suggested)
Knights Templar (suggested)

good suggestions!

Colonies (17 included)

Brazil
Cuba
Capetown
East Africa
East Indies
Gold Coast
Ivory Coast
Hudson Bay
Malaya
Virginia
Far Eastern Treaty Ports (4 allowed)
Indian Trading Posts (3 allowed)

World Wonders (14 included)

Forbidden Palace * (included)
Summer Palace *
The Sistine Chapel, Rome *
Versailles, Paris *
Notre Dame, Paris *
The Leaning Tower, Pisa *
The Theodosian Walls, Constantinople *
Topkapi Palace, Constantinople *
Shrine of Uppsala, Norse *
Krak des Chevaliers *
The Monastery of Cluny *
The Round Church *
The Alhambra Palace *
The Palacio de Pena *

These have been suggested but not yet implemented:
The Brandenburg Gate, Berlin (replaces The Kremlin, -33% production costs in all cities)
The Basilica San Marco, Venice (replaces the Temple of Artemis, +100% trade routes + 1 Great Merchant)
The Escorial Palace, Spain (replaces the Spiral Minaret, +1 gold per all state religion buildings)
La Scala Opera House, Milan (replaces The Eiffel Tower. free monument per city)
Kalmar Castle, Sweden (replaces The Pentagon, all new units rec. +1 experience point?))
Magna Carta, England (replaces the Pyramids, enables all govt. types)
The Jewish Quarter of Krakov, Poland (establishes Judaism in every large city?)
The Golden Bull, Hungary (replaces the Shwedagon Paya, enables all religion civics)

this ones i really like

The Tomb of Khalid ibn Al Walid (replaces the Statue of Zeus, enemies suffer 100% war weariness, +1 Great General.)

i never heard of that tomb - sorry
other suggestions:
Castel Sant'Angelo, Rome / Italy
Hall of Liberation (Befreiungshalle), Kelheim / Germany
Monument to the Battle of the Nations, Leipzig / Germany
Hermann monument (Hermannsdenkmal), NRW / Germany
Valle de los Caídos, El Escorial / Spain
Monument to the Unknown Hero, Belgrade / Serbia

The Dome of the Rock, Jerusalem (replaces the Taj Mahal, starts Golden Age +1 Great. Artist?)

i really like the idea of the dome of the rock - but is it important enough, to start a golden age? maybe it should replace the angkor wat

The Gardens of Al Andalus, Cordoba (replaces the Hanging Gardens, +1 health, +1 food per city)

my first idea by replacing gardens was the alhambra or the topkapi palaca. the gardens of al andalus are great, but not important enought (i think...)
suggestions:
the Prater, vienna / austria
Villa d’Este, tivoli / italy
English Garden (Englischer Garten), munich / germany

The Palazzo San Giorgio, Genoa (replaces the Statue of Liberty, +1 free specialist per city, 1 Great Merchant)

for me not important enough anyway - is it necessary to replace every existing wonder?

St. Basil's Cathedral, Moscow (replaces The Mausoleum of Maussalos, +50% Golden Age length, +1 Great Artist.)
St. Sophia Cathedral, Kiev (replaces Angkor Wat,+1 hammer per priest, can turn 3 citizens into priest))

i really like that buildings - but maybe they should have a typical religous effect... foreign civs (with same or other religion) are gentler and building faster other churches and convents - for example

Leonardo's Inventions, Italy (1 free scientist, 1 free artist in each city?)
The Copernican Revolution, Poland (as in Civ3)
Issac Newton's Laboratory, England (as in Civ3)
Magellan's Voyage, Portugal (as in Civ3)
Rembrandt's Masterpiece, Amsterdam (culture + happiness boost in all cities?)
Mozart's Concertos, Vienna (free theatres in all cities?)

personally for me, I dont like wonders which are based on a great person. you already have benefits of their creation. and how would you differ, which one is more important? for example, some people thinking mozart is the major composer - other would think beethoven, bach or wagner are more important. therefore i wouldnt add them and face special buildings of them, like the sixtine chapel of michaelangelo.

 

[jessiecat]

i never heard of that tomb - sorry
other suggestions:
Castel Sant'Angelo, Rome / Italy
Hall of Liberation (Befreiungshalle), Kelheim / Germany
Monument to the Battle of the Nations, Leipzig / Germany
Hermann monument (Hermannsdenkmal), NRW / Germany
Valle de los Caídos, El Escorial / Spain
Monument to the Unknown Hero, Belgrade / Serbia

i really like the idea of the dome of the rock - but is it important enough, to start a golden age? maybe it should replace the angkor wat

my first idea by replacing gardens was the alhambra or the topkapi palaca. the gardens of al andalus are great, but not important enought (i think...)
suggestions:
the Prater, vienna / austria
Villa d’Este, tivoli / italy
English Garden (Englischer Garten), munich /


personally for me, I dont like wonders which are based on a great person. you already have benefits of their creation. and how would you differ, which one is more important? for example, some people thinking mozart is the major composer - other would think beethoven, bach or wagner are more important. therefore i wouldnt add them and face special buildings of them, like the sixtine chapel of michaelangelo.

I hope you understand that these are still suggestions. Some will be implemented. Others not.

re. the Tomb of Al Khalid. You may not of heard of him but most military historians regard him as one the top 10 generals of all time. Conqueror of Syria, Iraq and the Persian Empire in 4 years, 200 battles, retired without losing even one. The wiki article on the Muslim conquests makes interesting reading. I recommend it.

The idea of the Gardens of Al Andalus was to represent the hugely important Arab Agricultural Revolution involving advanced irrigation and new technologies which brought dozens of new crops like sugar, rice, coffee, cotton, citrus fruits and many new vegetables which transformed the diet of Europe.

The Dome of the Rock was suggested to replace the Taj Mahal but it doesn't have to start a Golden Age. It could have other effects.

I agree though that wonders based on a single person are not ideal. And I should remind you that we tried to have at least one wonder per civ in the mod and make sure that each one was already built well before 1800, which is when our mod ends. Anyway thanks for your suggestions. Glad to have any help you can provide.

 

[Chrismarck]

I hope you understand that these are still suggestions. Some will be implemented. Others not.

for sure - all I want to do is to give you some other thoughts and a different meaning

re. the Tomb of Al Khalid. You may not of heard of him but most military historians regard him as one the top 10 generals of all time. Conqueror of Syria, Iraq and the Persian Empire in 4 years, 200 battles, retired without losing even one. The wiki article on the Muslim conquests makes interesting reading. I recommend it.

I know Al Khalid, but I havent heared about his tomb. a wonder is for me a special building - something never been before and important for people or remarkable because of its construction. creating a new wonder which doesnt exist would be some kind of strange - I think

The idea of the Gardens of Al Andalus was to represent the hugely important Arab Agricultural Revolution involving advanced irrigation and new technologies which brought dozens of new crops like sugar, rice, coffee, cotton, citrus fruits and many new vegetables which transformed the diet of Europe.

I understand the meaning and your idea behind - but wouldnt it be proper if the special building of the al andalusian civ would be the garden? so you have the historical background, that you have more than one garden.

The Dome of the Rock was suggested to replace the Taj Mahal but it doesn't have to start a Golden Age. It could have other effects.

buildings (wonders) for a golden age are difficult. there are several reasons why civs had a golden age, not only because of a wonder. the taj mahal is a remarkable building and its hard to find something simular. maybe the hagia sofia could be something like that for european history.

I agree though that wonders based on a single person are not ideal. And I should remind you that we tried to have at least one wonder per civ in the mod and make sure that each one was already built well before 1800, which is when our mod ends. Anyway thanks for your suggestions. Glad to have any help you can provide.

Im still a litte bit sad that it ends 1800 but it will be great if its ready.

Ill do my very best - unfortunately I cant help you more with programming or designing.

 

[jessiecat]

for sure - all I want to do is to give you some other thoughts and a different meaning



I know Al Khalid, but I havent heared about his tomb. a wonder is for me a special building - something never been before and important for people or remarkable because of its construction. creating a new wonder which doesnt exist would be some kind of strange - I think



I understand the meaning and your idea behind - but wouldnt it be proper if the special building of the al andalusian civ would be the garden? so you have the historical background, that you have more than one garden.



buildings (wonders) for a golden age are difficult. there are several reasons why civs had a golden age, not only because of a wonder. the taj mahal is a remarkable building and its hard to find something simular. maybe the hagia sofia could be something like that for european history.



Im still a litte bit sad that it ends 1800 but it will be great if its ready.

Ill do my very best - unfortunately I cant help you more with programming or designing.

Good points. I guess I was looking for something like the Statue of Zeus in Civ 3 but a wonder that pumps out units every few turns would be just too powerful.
Your point about duplicating the garden is a good one. I'd like to have that wonder but change the UB to something closer to the Cordoban UP which is health related.
It would be good to have one expensive wonder which started a golden age but maybe the Dome of the Rock isn't it. Any suggestions from the existing or proposed wonders as to which one it should be?
I'm glad we're finishing at 1800 though as there is talk that another group of CFCers might try to build an 1800 to date mod/mod. An ancient one to about 500AD may also be on the cards.
As far as helping, we all do what we can. I can't code at all. But I am good at researching whatever we need. The best thing all of us can do however is to keep play-testing and reporting regularly to this thread and others. Glad to have you aboard.

 

[Chrismarck]

Good points. I guess I was looking for something like the Statue of Zeus in Civ 3 but a wonder that pumps out units every few turns would be just too powerful.
Your point about duplicating the garden is a good one. I'd like to have that wonder but change the UB to something closer to the Cordoban UP which is health related.
It would be good to have one expensive wonder which started a golden age but maybe the Dome of the Rock isn't it. Any suggestions from the existing or proposed wonders as to which one it should be?
I'm glad we're finishing at 1800 though as there is talk that another group of CFCers might try to build an 1800 to date mod/mod. An ancient one to about 500AD may also be on the cards.
As far as helping, we all do what we can. I can't code at all. But I am good at researching whatever we need. The best thing all of us can do however is to keep play-testing and reporting regularly to this thread and others. Glad to have you aboard.

Good Morning

today I have time enough to read my files once more and look at my books and internetpages. we need at least one wonder per civ - right? I will start with your list and add my suggestions - what they mean to me.

Im so sorry that i cant play-testing - I tried but it always brokes down

Whish you a gread day!

 

[Chrismarck]

Wonders in Spain

Way of St. James / El Camino de Santiago
- missionaries ignore borders, or
- better relationship to civs with same religion

Silk Exchange / Lonja de la Seda
- extra gold for special goods, or
- building markets goes faster


Wonders in Al Andalus

Alhambra / Alhambra
- free building castle in every city, or
- higher population in citys, or
- take away every religion excetp the state-religion (alhambra decree)

Great Mosque of Cordoba / Mezquita de Córdoba
- better relationship to civs with other religion, or
- free religion government


Wonders in Portugal

Belém Tower / Torre de Belém
- two extra traderoutes for coastal citys, or
- better defence for coastal citys, or
- sea fields gets one extra gold

Hieronymites Monastery / Mosteiro dos Jerónimos
- building faster colony projekts
- rise up science in city or every monastery


Wonders in France

Palace of Versailles / Château de Versailles
- reduce the support of nearby citys (like it is), or
- better relationship to other civs (all the contracts), or
- starting a golden age

Notre Dame de Paris / Cathédrale Notre-Dame de Paris
- people are happier in every city (like it is), or
- rising up culture in city or every religious building, or
- free building church in every city


Wonders in Burgundy

Cluny Abbey / Abbaye de Cluny
- rise up science in city or every monastery, or
- free building monastery in every city

Fort Thüngen / Fort Thüngen
- doubles the defence of the city wall, or
- defence units starts with more experience


Wonders in Venice, Genoa and Papal State

Doge's Palace / Palazzo Ducale di Venezia
- lowers the maintenance costs in every city, or
- more range for ships and scouts

St Mark's Basilica / Basilica di San Marco a Venezia
- more gold from trade routes, or
- extra gold from state religion buildings

Leaning Tower of Pisa / Torre pendente di Pisa
- more science in the city (like it is)

Torre della Lanterna / La Laterna
- two extra traderoutes for coastal citys, or
- more range for ships

Teatro alla Scala / La Scala
- free theater in every city, or
- rising up culture in the city or from every theater

Sistine Chapel / Cappella Sistina
- more culture from state religion buildings (like it is)

Apostolic Palace / Palazzo Apostolico
- religious elections (like it is)


Wonders in Austria

Hofburg Imperial Palace / Hofburg
- better relationship to civs with same religion, or
- more great people (marriage politic of habsburg)

Spanish Riding School / Spanische Hofreitschule
- riding units starts with more experience, or
- free building horse stable in every city

i need a break now and go on later

maybe there is someting you like

 

[merijn_v1]

Wonders in Spain



Wonders in Al Andalus

Alhambra / Alhambra
- free building castle in every city, or
- higher population in citys, or
- take away every religion excetp the state-religion (alhambra decree)



Wonders in France

Palace of Versailles / Château de Versailles
- reduce the support of nearby citys (like it is), or
- better relationship to other civs (all the contracts), or
- starting a golden age

Notre Dame de Paris / Cathédrale Notre-Dame de Paris
- people are happier in every city (like it is), or
- rising up culture in city or every religious building, or
- free building church in every city


Wonders in Burgundy

Cluny Abbey / Abbaye de Cluny
- rise up science in city or every monastery, or
- free building monastery in every city


Wonders in Venice

Leaning Tower of Pisa / Torre pendente di Pisa
- more science in the city (like it is)


Sistine Chapel / Cappella Sistina
- more culture from state religion buildings (like it is)

Apostolic Palace / Palazzo Apostolico
- religious elections (like it is)



i need a break now and go on later

maybe there is someting you like

This wonders we already have. And IMO they good how they are now.

 

[jessiecat]

Nice suggestions, Chrismarck. As you can see, we've implemented most of these. I'll tell you what you could help me with. At the moment I'm working on a list of civ-specific Great People to be posted on the wiki. http://wikirhye.wikidot.com./rhyes-of-europe Later, we can put the completed list in the game.
What i need is GP's for the following civs.

Remember, they must have been alive and active before 1800.

Great General (any military leader )
Great Spy (could a politician or diplomat)
Great Prophet (could be philosopher or theologian)
Great Artist (Painter, writer, composer, sculptor etc.)
Great Scientist (any kind)
Great Merchant (could be banker, explorer, traveller etc.)
Great Engineer

Germany (5 to 6 of each)
Austria (5 to 6 of each)
Poland (5 to 6 of each)
Hungary (5 to 6 of each)

* To anybody who's interested. The Arabs, Cordobans and Ottomans are mostly done.
We still need GP's for the English, Norse (includes Danish), Swedish, Byzantine, Bulgaria,
Venice, Genoa, France, Burgundy and the Netherlands. ( I'll do the Spanish and the Portugese myself).
And panslavist has volunteered to do Russia.

 

[pan-slavist]

Ufff. It would be very easy to make the GP list for russia, but to make a different GP lists for Kievans and Moscowans is a very hard job, as the Kievan Rus was a predecesor to Russia and it collapsed in the 12th century and never came back as Kievan Rus, instead it came back as Russia. so actually you made two civilizations of just one - as i percieve it, muscovy was a new version of the previous russian civ-Kievan Rus, which collapsed. but even though i like to have the chance to play for both kievans and muscovans, i percieve it as alternate history - if the kievan rus survived. so i will try my best and make 12 GP of each kind for both of these great civilizations. to distinguish i will give the russian GPs to Moscow, and the Kievan Rus and Ukrainian GPs(with Ukrainian descent) to Kievan Rus. OK?

 

[jessiecat]

Ufff. It would be very easy to make the GP list for russia, but to make a different GP lists for Kievans and Moscowans is a very hard job, as the Kievan Rus was a predecesor to Russia and it collapsed in the 12th century and never came back as Kievan Rus, instead it came back as Russia. so actually you made two civilizations of just one - as i percieve it, muscovy was a new version of the previous russian civ-Kievan Rus, which collapsed. but even though i like to have the chance to play for both kievans and muscovans, i percieve it as alternate history - if the kievan rus survived. so i will try my best and make 12 GP of each kind for both of these great civilizations. to distinguish i will give the russian GPs to Moscow, and the Kievan Rus and Ukrainian GPs(with Ukrainian descent) to Kievan Rus. OK?

Sounds great to me. 10-12 of each to be shared between them would be fine. Maybe the earliest ones could be in the Kievan list. The hard part will be Great Spies but any politician, diplomat etc. would work. I agree its alt. history as Russia developed from both but for this mod we've treated them as separate civs up to 1800 however ahistorical that might be. In practice the AI as Kiev usually gets wiped out in the 13thC. Mongol invasions anyway. And the human player would hope to win a UHV victory shortly after 1500 anyway. But thanks for your help. You can post that here or if you join our wiki you can edit the list yourself.

 

[merijn_v1]

I (and I think my brother Wessel_V1 too) can do the Dutch list. We live there so I think it wouldn't be hard.

 

[pan-slavist]

So really no GP born after 1800s? that means no Rasputin, no Pushkin, Tolstoy, Dostoevskij, Chajkovskij and so. as for the politicians and diplomats it will be also difficult before 1800. I know it wont be historical but...cmon no Rasputin? what kind of russia wil that be?

 

[jessiecat]

So really no GP born after 1800s? that means no Rasputin, no Pushkin, Tolstoy, Dostoevskij, Chajkovskij and so. as for the politicians and diplomats it will be also difficult before 1800. I know it wont be historical but...cmon no Rasputin? what kind of russia wil that be?

OK. Be flexible and make 5 of each as early as you can. But no Rasputin.

EDIT Even a quick look at wiki got me 5 Russian writers before Pushkin. Please try a little harder.

 

[pan-slavist]

OK i will do my best, but i think i cant make it today, i will try to have it by tomorow night. I already have the Great Generals for russia - most of them died after 1800 but were born like 1750 or such, generals of the napoleonic wars such as Kutuzov. Is that ok? i guess it is cause they were generals already tens of years before 1800. One more thing - should I put explorers as Great Merchants or as GrScientists? I believe in Civ4 it was a habit to use them as merchants - Christobal Colon and such.
dont worry about me putting just the 18th century people i will try hard not to but the older ones are mostly legends and such.but i ll try
also i would like some russian to look at the list to say if its good or bad.

 

[jessiecat]

OK i will do my best, but i think i cant make it today, i will try to have it by tomorow night. I already have the Great Generals for russia - most of them died after 1800 but were born like 1750 or such, generals of the napoleonic wars such as Kutuzov. Is that ok? i guess it is cause they were generals already tens of years before 1800. One more thing - should I put explorers as Great Merchants or as GrScientists? I believe in Civ4 it was a habit to use them as merchants - Christobal Colon and such.
dont worry about me putting just the 18th century people i will try hard not to but the older ones are mostly legends and such.but i ll try
also i would like some russian to look at the list to say if its good or bad.

Please take your time. Theres no rush. When i really research things it takes me days. And I'm a trained historian. Wiki is a good primary source as it leads you to other links. I think explorers and travellers should count as merchants. And Great Generals could include early Kievan princes who lead military campaigns as well.

 

[merijn_v1]

For the GPs, here is an useful link for ideas. (their not filtered by livingdate)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=199344

Or look at the XML files in Program files of your computer.

 

[merijn_v1]

I have a list with the Dutch GP names. Most of the GAs are painters, but we had a large number of them so it is logical. I also added Willem van Oranje. I don't know if he is okay, because it is also the leader of the Dutch. I toke all the names form wikipedia.

 

[jessiecat]

I have a list with the Dutch GP names. Most of the GAs are painters, but we had a large number of them so it is logical. I also added Willem van Oranje. I don't know if he is okay, because it is also the leader of the Dutch. I toke all the names form wikipedia.

Really great list. Thanks for that. Great Spys are much more difficult. Even wiki isn't much help with finding them. I tried that link which was OK for some. Same with the XML files too. Thanks