RFC Europe Wonders

[merijn_v1]

For the Tower of London you also could give them the Dungeon art (but bigger) and find another art for the Dungeon. (if their is a good one) If not, I agree with the 2nd picture of jessiecat.

 

[JediClemente]

I did suggest the Tower of London to replace Scotland Yard. It's very old ( over 900 years old) and historically very important. Used as the Royal prison with many famous people imprisoned and executed there and where the Crown Jewels were stored. Here's a picture and possible art for the building. (2nd. from left in strip).

Hm. That building is already used for Palais des Papes, I think.

And anyway if it will be a national wonder, we shouldn't use so many polygons. So I'll look for another tower graphics.

 

[jessiecat]

Hm. That building is already used for Palais des Papes, I think.

And anyway if it will be a national wonder, we shouldn't use so many polygons. So I'll look for another tower graphics.

Just been comparing our palaces and castles and I wonder if we haven't got them in the right order.

 

[JediClemente]

Yeah, Palace doesn't look like one. But I couldn't find anything better to replace the ridiculous default "asian palace".

We also need a replacement for Summer Palace, as it has too many polygons for a National Wonder (which will be built by a lot of civs).

You don't like the other two?

 

[jessiecat]

Yeah, Palace doesn't look like one. But I couldn't find anything better to replace the ridiculous default "asian palace".

We also need a replacement for Summer Palace, as it has too many polygons for a National Wonder (which will be built by a lot of civs).

You don't like the other two?

What I'm suggesting is that we use the Palais one for the Tower of London, and maybe switch the Palace one with the Summer Palace. Maybe we could use the large Spanish villa building I posted above for the Summer Palace. Then the Summer Palace one could be the Palais de Papes. Sorry if that sounds confusing. Can I summarize?

Palace - poss. the Military Academy from BTS (if we're not using it. It looks OK IMO.)
Summer Palace -uses Spanish villa art posted above
Palais de Papes uses Kalmar Castle art
Tower of London uses Palais de Papes art (closest we've got)
Kalmar Castle uses the Summer Palace art (should have pointed towers)

 

[civmademepoor]

The West Point art could also be used for something.

 

[JediClemente]

I've been really busy these past two weeks.

Now, as I said, if the Tower of London is to be a national wonder (buildable only by great spy or not), it shouldn't have a model with so much polygons as those castles.

Also I don't like very much the graphics for spanish villa. I don't know, can't see it as a palace.

 

[Michael Vick]

I think that the colony feature isn't nearly as complicated as it should be.
First, I think there should be many more places to colonize. For example, the only colony in the Caribbean is Cuba, with no mention to Hispaniola, Jamaica, the Bahamas, or any other significant colonies. Also what about places like Patagonia, Pampas, Yucatan, Llanos, Peru?? That's just South America. There are lots of other missing places.

I know that this would mean way too many colonial projects, but what about a different approach to them? The hammers required to make them could be reduced, and the UHV's for those Western European Civs could be changed to building 7 or 8 colonial projects, maybe 8 for Spain, if we want to get even more accurate.

Maybe as another "kind" of colonial project we could have the Aztec and Inca conquests.. They would require more hammers and provide more benefits. this could be added to to Spain's already very easy UHV requirements:
1. Unite Iberia through conquest or vassalage, and allow no religions other Catholicism
2. Build 8 colonial projects (OR have more colonial projects than any other civ)
3. Conquer the Aztec, Inca

Also, what about revolutions for the colonies??? If a civilization becomes too unstable, revolutions could take place in their colonies, which would make them lose their colony, and prevent any other civ from building that colony.

(off topic, but since we have Magellan's voyage, why not Columbus's?)

 

[Michael Vick]

I think that the colony feature isn't nearly as complicated as it should be.
First, I think there should be many more places to colonize. For example, the only colony in the Caribbean is Cuba, with no mention to Hispaniola, Jamaica, the Bahamas, or any other significant colonies. Also what about places like Patagonia, Pampas, Yucatan, Llanos, Peru?? That's just South America. There are lots of other missing places.

I know that this would mean way too many colonial projects, but what about a different approach to them? The hammers required to make them could be reduced, and the UHV's for those Western European Civs could be changed to building 7 or 8 colonial projects, maybe 8 for Spain, if we want to get even more accurate.

Maybe as another "kind" of colonial project we could have the Aztec and Inca conquests.. They would require more hammers and provide more benefits. this could be added to to Spain's already very easy UHV requirements:
1. Unite Iberia through conquest or vassalage, and allow no religions other Catholicism
2. Build 8 colonial projects (OR have more colonial projects than any other civ)
3. Conquer the Aztec, Inca

Also, what about revolutions for the colonies??? If a civilization becomes too unstable, revolutions could take place in their colonies, which would make them lose their colony, and prevent any other civ from building that colony.

(off topic, but since we have Magellan's voyage, why not Columbus's?)

Any thoughts??

 

[jessiecat]

Any thoughts??

A couple.
I don't think there's much chance of adding more colonies at this stage. Its all very well saying some civs should build 7 or 8 colonies but what happens when Sedna codes it so the AI knows all about building colonies? What are your chances then? Even 3 will be very hard then.
The idea of revolutions in colonies is interesting but would have to come so late in our mod,
ie. 1750-1800, that it would have little impact on the game.
As for Columbus, what did he really do? Went looking for the Indies and found somewhere else by accident. So did John Cabot, Jacques Cartier and Henry Hudson.
At least Magellan (or some of his crew) were the first to circumnavigate the world.

 

[Michael Vick]

It's significant, though. We could have it like the Manhattan project. You can only build African/Asian colonies until Columbus's voyage is completed. And why no more colonies?? I think it takes away from the game to have so little. Is there any way I can help so that we can have more?

 

[Michael Vick]

Why is the list of colonies like this??? Out of the little that we have, these choices seem very strange. First of all, I can conclude that whoever made this list obviously likes playing as the British and likes to get historically accurate games.
Almost every one of these places was at one time controlled by the British. Portugal has one maybe two, France has one or two... and... oh, Spain, unarguably the European power with the most colonies historically has a grand total of ONE. Cuba. haha, a little bit of bias I'm sensing, no?

 

[jessiecat]

To be fair, you're not really unbiased about the colonies yourself. Let me explain what they represent. They are not national colonies but areas of colonisation. The Gold Coast, for example, had at least five countries operating in it, namely the Portugese, Spanish, Dutch, British and Swedish. The East Indies had first the Spanish and Portugese followed by the Dutch, French and British. Almost everybody had trading posts in India and the Far East. The same with the West indies. The French, Dutch and British competed for the fur trade in North America which is represented in the game by the Hudson's Bay Company and Virginia. The colonies we decided on are representative of areas and resources not exclusive national colonies.
Where I do agree with you is the lack of colonies in Mexico and the West Indies. There could be more and we should have colonies representing the Spanish conquests of Mexico and Peru. These were suggested originally but never got implemented for some reason. I'm still in favour of their inclusion.

 

[Michael Vick]

Ok, is there some way that I can work towards their inclusion?

 

[jessiecat]

Ok, is there some way that I can work towards their inclusion?

The way we all have to do it. Outline your suggestions and how they would work. People will have their views about it. And if its feasible for Sedna to code it in, maybe he will.

 

[Michael Vick]

Here's a list of places I think we ought to add.

Pacific -
Philippines
New Zealand(?)

South America -
Venezuela
Peru/or Inca conquest
Columbia
River Plate(Argentina)
Guyana (This will include both British and French Guyana + Suriname)

North America -
Yucatan
Mexico/Aztec conquest
California
Texas
Louisiana
Florida
New England(We'll call it something else? maybe Atlantic Seaboard?)
Quebec
Newfoundland (for the Norse )
Oregon

Caribbean -
Hispaniola

Africa -
Madagascar

Tell which are possible for inclusion and I'll start working on the details.

 

[jessiecat]

As I said earlier, I'd support the inclusion of the Aztec Conquests, the Incan Conquests and maybe a couple more in the New World, possibly Quebec, Hispianola and New England. But the rest of your list is comprised of areas that were not very important, already covered by existing colonies or far too late to be considered in this mod which ends in 1800 as you well know. The chances of adding any more than 4 or 5 new colonies at this stage are just about nil. There are enough existing features in this mod which require fixing without trying to add more IMO.

 

[Michael Vick]

To add more colonies, we can reduce the hammers required for each to about 1000, maybe a little more for the conquests. Also, I suggest changing the UHVs for England, France, and Portugal to getting 5 colonial projects, maybe we can have Spain's as- "In 1650, have more colonial projects than England, France, and Netherlands.

Here's a refined list.

Aztec Conquest - Allowed by Nationalism
Provides +4 silver
Provides +2 spices
1000 hammers (Double Production speed with Atlantic Access)

Inca Conquest - Allowed by Nationalism
Provides +4 gold
Provides +2 silver
1000 hammers (Double production speed with Atlantic access)

Hispaniola - Allowed by Astronomy (I think we should change Cuba to Astronomy also)
Provides +4 sugar
Provides +2 spices
1000 hammers (Double production speed with Atlantic Access)

Quebec - Allowed by Nationalism
Provides +4 fur
Provides +2 timber

New England - Allowed by Nationalism
Provides +2 fish
Provides +2 clam
Provides +2 timber
1000 hammers (double production speed with Atlantic Access)

(I think that Louisiana and Florida are essentials!)
Louisiana - Allowed by Civil Engineering
Provides +2 cotton
Provides +4 spices
1000 hammers (double production speed with Atlantic Access)

Florida - Allowed by Civil Engineering
Provides +4 sugar
Provides +2 fish

Colombia (will include Venezuela) - Allowed by Nationalism
Provides +2 coffee
Provides +2 gold
Provides +2 spices

Central America (We'll call it something else) - Allowed by Nationalism
Provides +2 silver
Provides +2 bananas
Provides +2 sugar

What do you think?

 

[Cethegus]

Wow. You're more resourceful than most requesting people that I have seen, MV.

However - on your suggestion to lower the hammer requirement for colonies... don't you think they would then provide a little too much in comparison for the hammers they cost? If their costs are to be lowered, I think 4 resources (at most 5) per colony is good enough.

All in all, I support including the Inca and Aztec conquests. You also can't build the empire where to sun never sets with just 3 colonies.

 

[jessiecat]

Wow. You're more resourceful than most requesting people that I have seen, MV.

However - on your suggestion to lower the hammer requirement for colonies... don't you think they would then provide a little too much in comparison for the hammers they cost? If their costs are to be lowered, I think 4 resources (at most 5) per colony is good enough.

All in all, I support including the Inca and Aztec conquests. You also can't build the empire where to sun never sets with just 3 colonies.

Yes. An interesting list, but still too many IMO. A couple of points. What is this spice resource in the New World? Which spice? Chocolate and vanilla maybe. Shellfish was never exported from Louisiana. Cotton maybe. And citrus fruits certainly did not originate in the New World and were never grown there before 1800. If by corn you mean maize it was never a luxury import from the New World, just a staple crop that was replanted all over the rest of the world. Same with cows in Argentina. They didn't come from there. They were sent there with the settlers. As I keep saying, remember this mod ends in 1800. Colonial imports should reflect that fact.
That being said, I would support the Aztec and Inca Conquests, Quebec, New England and Hispaniola. We don't need any more than that. If Sedna is willing to code them in, I'll find suitable art for them as I did for the others.