RFC:I - Civ Discussion.

i would say Alcide De Gasperi or Aldo Moro

 

Yep, I was thinking of De Gasperi as well.

Yeah, you are right when talking of art. I was actually thinking more of culture than art but then came up with that idea. The power could be changed in name and give +4 culture per city (no free artist which would also mean free GPP). Although a young and relatively small nation, you have to recognize that many aspects of the italian culture have spread worldwide since its unification (also thanks to emigration). From food (which was partly in your proposal), to architectural heritage (again in your proposals), to cinema, textile industry, and even in the sport (partly in your proposal), which has played a big role in modern era culture, Italy did manage to get known despite the numbers being against it. If you consider any of the 19th and 20th century born countries in Europe and even great part of the oldest european nations, you won't find many of them being worldwide famous in that many cultural aspects... at least to my observations, I may be biased correct me if I'm wrong.

 

yep i agree with you so maybe the name of the UP could be "The power of Cultural Heritage" and give +4 culture per city this would be useful for the cultural UHV

oh and the bersaglieri seems a bit underpowered in my opinion...maybe it should be changed a bit

 

well, think of two movements combined with mobility and guerrilla, then think of the italian geography (lots of hills, especially at its borders), I think they work. Without penalizing their strenght they would be too strong IMO, and they are lightly equipped.

 

So a rifflemen with allways 2 movement (except with road offcourse) and guerilla. And offcourse the bonus against mounted units. (IMO the should get it.)

 

Australia

UHV:

1. Control 12 mined resources within your territory by 1950

2. Every civilization must be “Pleased” with you by 1970

3a. Be the richest country in the world in 1980
3b. No colonies in Australia/Oceania in 1980/1950
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UP:
Power of Islands/the Island:
+2 in every coastal city

OR

Power of Miners/Mines:
Every mine produces +1 and +1

OR

Power of Survival:
No city's population can drop below 3/5
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UB:
Visa Station: Customs House
Draws in immigrants from 5 poorest countries
----------
UU:
ANZAC: Infantry
Half XP required for promotions
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That seem like a good Australia to you guys? Obviously, I think so, but I'm very open to criticism, and even more so, compliments.
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Samurai seems a bit late for the era in which this game takes place. So does the Cho-Ko-Nu. IMO both should be replaced. Also, I think this would be a prime opportunity to replace the Punjabi Worker, since it's usefulness is much less now that India will already be colonized and well developed. Some ideas:
--------------
Japan:

Zero: Fighter
14
Can bomb city defenses (-15%/turn)
Can destroy city improvements
Can intercept aircraft (100% chance)
Costs 75
6

Reasoning: None. I don't know anything about Zeroes. Just putting it out there.
--------------
India:

Rajputana Rifles: Rifleman
2
15 strength
25% vs. Mounted Units

Reasoning: A famous feat was marching from Quetta to Kandahar in 5 days. Also won most battles they were in. While they were used during WW2, it would be more accurate to represent them during their beginning and prime as riflemen. (WAS NOT COPYING OFF ITALY, didn't see that until now.. )
--------------
China:

Unfortunately, no ideas.
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Anyways, all just ideas, sorry for long post. Anyone got any better ideas for anything I suggested? Or criticisms/compliments? Please express them.

 

Finally! Some inspiring Australia ideas! Yes it seems like a good Australia but I doo have a couple of comments...

About your UHV's
I like the mines one, is mining important in Australia? I don't like the 'be pleased with everyone' criteria, it seems too hard. How about open borders with 10 civs? As for the third criteria, I prefer 'No Euro Cities in Australasia' to the first one.

You UPs I like a lot. They are all very unique and any that we don't use I might recycle for another civ.

I like your UB, but how would the immigration mechanism work? The way it goes for the USA is rather complex, it might be easier for it to be a Custom House that add 2 population to the city? Either that or +2 food...

Lastly the UU, whats the logic behind the extra experience?

 

Yes, I'm pretty sure. The reason I have that is that mainland Australia has 10 mined resources, and then it would force growth onto surrounding islands.

I didn't want to reuse the Canadian AND Portuguese one, but that could work. Be “Friendly” with 5 civs OR be “Pleased” with 10 civs? Both would be hard, but fun and possible. Either one of those or the open borders one.

The main point was to both remove Japanese power, but I thought that would be too easy so I added Europe too. Perhaps, “No European or Japanese cities in Australasia”?

Thanks a lot!

+2 food would be OK, I suppose, if it's too difficult for the other idea. Maybe 3+ food.

I would ask whoever came up with that idea I had no idea of my own, so I took his. It's in this thread.. you could find it on some page or another. If you don't like it I could look at ones from the "New Civilizations" forum. In fact.. here you go:

Digger: Marine
24
1
+50% Attack vs. Artillery
+50% Attack vs. Machine Gun
Starts with: Ambush, March

Leaders:
Curtin
Menzies

 

How about 'No foreign cities'?

 

But.. but that was the original thing... but I suppose you put it better. Then, Digger or ANZAC?

 

Mining is very important in Aus, brill UHV condition. We basically supply China, China makes into stuff and exports it to US, US just looses money But yea the mining industry here is pretty big driver of the economy...

Logic behind the less xp for promote is that generally once battle hardened Aussie troops have been very effective. Really against any type of Marine UU since we errr suck at amphibious landings..."digger" usually refers to the blokes who fought WWI when our main "contribution" was Gallipoli (though outside Gallipoli we did pretty well). I think an ANZAC unit replacing infantry would be better, fighting back the Japs along the Kokoda trail in PNG and denying them the landing strips needed to bomb the major cities. It's the only real time we've actually had to defend our homeland...

 

Brazil

Spoiler :

LEADERS
Dom Pedro

DATE
1820

POWER
The Power of Rainforest: Lumbermills can be build in Jungles and provide +1 Food and Commerce in addition to usual benefits

BUILDING
Football Club: Replaces Amphitheatre, +10% Gold production (like the American Mall)

UNIT
Amazon Guard: Replaces Infantry, starts with Woodsman 1,2,3.

UHV
1. Control Argentina in X AD. (1900?)
2. Advance to the Modern Era by X AD. (1950?)
3. Build 10 Football Clubs by X AD. (1950?)

 

Aren't there problems in current Brazil because of massive deforestation? I have the feeling that they prefer to cut the forest downs instead of exploiting them as with "lumbermills". The UP could be to get a production bonus when cutting down jungle, although it feels underpowered. I don't know exactly how has the Amazonian forest contibuted to Brazil's history, anyway. Actually, I think your suggested UP is good, even if possibly not accurate.

The UHVs are ok, but if I may suggest two other ideas:

-Build Cristo Redentor by X AD (1931 = real date; it would include your "advance to the modern era" as well)

-Be the most populous Christian/Catholic nation in the world in X AD (accurate, but it would mean they ought to be sure to be Catholic, i.e. with a missionary at start; alternatively, just be the most populous country regardless of religion).

Did Brazil have any pretentions on Argentina?

 

1. Yeah, you're right, but deforestation is only a recent thing (i.e. from the late 20th century on). The main point of the UP is to help Brazil cope with the huge number of jungle tiles in their area.
2. That sounds smart and better
3. That sounds good
4. Not really

 

India

Spoiler :

LEADERS
Gandhi

DATE
1940

POWER
The Power of Vegetarianism: Cities grow faster and cereals give more health

BUILDING
Mausoleum

UNIT
Gorkha: Replaces Infantry, starts with Combat I and Medic I

UHV
1. No foreign cities in the Indian Subcontinent in 1970 AD. (this obviously works best if their spawn area excludes some of the subcontinent)
2. Top 3 in population in 2000 AD - either among civs or among world cities.
3. Control 5 nuclear missiles in 2000 AD.

 

The Brazil UU you proposed (panopticon) is too strong. I propose only woodsmen 1 and maybe 2.

What do you mean by your 2nd Indian UHV??? Most pop in 2000AD?

 

It seems like 90% of the UU's here are Riflemen or Infantry or Marine replacement. The mod's gonna introduce new unit types, so I think it's best for now to just wait until these units are included and then it'll be easier to think of more unique UU's instead of just Infantry with promotions.

 

I agree. And I think this is the same as for the buildings.

 

But it puts the idea out there, so that later the UU can replace a new unit, and doesn't waste with this process all over again. However...

@kairob: I do think that a new unit/building/wonder/techtree thread should be opened up, so that this process can be more historical. But, you cannot come up with units/buildings/wonders alone, it requires making a full and complete tech, with all its benefits and obsoletes, its prerequisite techs and following techs (if it comes before a tech that's already out there) and if applicable the tech it replaces.

eg.
Early Rifling: Replaces Rifling
Same requirements as Rifling
Can build:

Early Rifleman:
12
+25% vs. Gunpowder Units
Requires Saltpeter

AND

Fireworks: Replaces Gunpowder
Same requirements as Gunpowder

Reveals:
Saltpeter

Allows:
Saltpeter

+1 in all cities with saltpeter
_________

Now that might not be a great example, but that's how posts should work, if you were to make such a thread, to ensure that there is not an excess of units and buildings without techs to call their home. If not, forgive me, but I sincerely think we need a thread like that.

 

So what? None of these are going to be in the final game anyway, because unique powers, units, buildings and historical victories will have to be implemented, tested and balanced once there is a working scenario to playtest. So it's just a base line from which to do more work later. If we take the attitude that the tech-unit tree has to precede every element of civ design, we may as well do no work on anything including the tech-unit tree itself until we know what the new, fundamental mechanics of colonisation and decolonisation are going to look like.