RFC:I - Civ Discussion.

[T_F]

For the Japanese UHV there are two options, you could either go with the isolationist or expansionist goals. (You could almost have two sets of UHVs, as long as they were designed so that you either went for one or the other).

Expansionist would be something like -
1. Control Korea and the Philippines by 1650
2. Vassalize China by 1700
3. Control Indonesia and Oceania (Polynesia, perhaps Australia and New Zealand) by 1850

Isolationist would be -
1. Have no open borders and no foreign trade routes in 1650
2. Have no foreign culture in Japan in 1700
3. Do not expand outside your spawn area before 1850

 

[BurnEmDown]

The Isolationist ones seem to easy, all you have to do is "survive by yourself".
Maybe something like first in score or first to complete the tech tree to show how the Japanese wanted to be "superior" to the European nations or at least equal to them.

 

[T_F]

Yeah, they are a bit too easy. Something like that sounds good. How about, 'be first in score in [year] without having expanded outside your spawn area'?

 

[ZachScape]

America should get a new UU:
The Rough Rider or the M60 Patton

Austria's UU could be a WWI tank that was never produced, the Burstyn Tank, by Snafusmith (the art dissapeared!!?!)
One of its UHVs should be to have complete control or the Balkans by 1914.

One of Germany's UHVs should be to control Morocco by 1911.

And two more things:
How come you don't want to include Argentina?
What are we going to do about Aztecs/Inca (two spawns or two civs)?

 

[JiimBV]

@merijn v1: OK, I didn't know that about the UU and UB being (un-unique?), I did about the UP. I'm just lost for ideas. Wait.. I got one. As for the UHV, I know it's terrible, but same, lost for ideas.

How about..

UB:
Operahaus/Opera Theatre:
3 , 1 per 20% , 2 Great Artist Points

So a Theatre with GA points. Is 2 enough? Or more? Or less?

UU:
Jaeger: (replaces rifleman)
12 Strength, +75% when attacking Gunpowder Units

So a riflemen, minus 2 strength, minus bonus vs. mounted units, plus bonus vs. riflemen. Used by the Austrians in WWI. Should it be Gunpowder units or Riflemen?

UP:
Power of Patronage: +2 for every cultural building

Includes any building producing culture, except for anything made cultural by a random event.

Spanish UHV:
1. No English, or French, or Dutch cities in the Americas in 1700 AD
2. Control Aztec and Incan territory in 1760 AD
3. Control the core area of 3 non-Austrian European civilizations by 1900 AD

Austrian UHV:
1: Change Government to Hereditary Rule by 1550 AD, never change again until 1900 AD
2: Vienna must be the most cultural city in the world in 1850 AD
3: Have complete control of the Bosporus, Germany and the Balkans in 1914 AD

British UHV:
1. Found at least 3 cities in every continent by 1730 AD
2. Have 3 non-European vassals in 1950 AD
3. First to enter Industrial and Modern era

French UHV:
1. Colonize Quebec, the Hudson Bay and Louisiana by 1760 AD
2. Build the Statue of Liberty and the Eiffel Tower in Paris by 1900 AD
3. Control Louisiana and Canada by 1950 AD

Dutch UHV:
1. Have the most extended map of the world in 1650 AD (50 years later)
2. Be the first to found a city in Australia
3. Secure or get by trade 7 spices resources by 1775 AD

(Didn't change anything because I'm confused about what you said BurnEmDown)

Turkish UHV:
1. Control the Balkans, the Black Sea and Mesopotamia in 1700 AD
2. Spread Sunni Islam to every Persian city by 1800 AD
3. Control Austria's core zone and have 2 vassal states in 1870 AD

@BurnEmDown: For the Dutch one, did you mean have one of each luxury resource? That sounds pretty good, I guess. For how realistic it is, I have no idea. I wouldn't know.

@All: I hope I incorporated everyone's ideas and have fixed all the flaws.

 

[kairob]

How come you don't want to include Argentina?

Too small, and as far as I know didn't do anything.

What are we going to do about Aztecs/Inca (two spawns or two civs)?

No aztec and Inca. Native cities and Peru and Aztecs can spawn around the time of the beggining of the Viceroyalities of Peru and Mexico.

 

[JiimBV]

Argentina was one of the wealthiest nations in the world for a while. It was vastly unimportant as a colony/viceroyality of Spain, however, so should be represented as a Spanish colony until it spawns in 1810, the year of it's independence.

Argentine UHV Ideas:
-Be the world's wealthiest nation in 1880/1900
-No European Colonies in South America in 1900
-Be first in score in 2000

Also, if possible, you should allow for the player to be a vassal, so that Peru may be represented historically. It should start as a vassal to Spain, so it may slowly grow more and more powerful.

Peruvian UHV Ideas:
-Control 4 Gold Resources in 1800 (via trade or mines)
-No European Colonies in South America in 1900
-Control South America in 1950 (be the only country with cities in South America)

Not sure about Brazil. I'll figure it out later.

 

[merijn_v1]

@merijn v1: OK, I didn't know that about the UU and UB being (un-unique?), I did about the UP. I'm just lost for ideas. Wait.. I got one. As for the UHV, I know it's terrible, but same, lost for ideas.

How about..

UB:
Operahaus/Opera Theatre:
3 , 1 per 20% , 2 Great Artist Points

So a Theatre with GA points. Is 2 enough? Or more? Or less?

UU:
Jaeger: (replaces rifleman)
12 Strength, +75% when attacking Gunpowder Units

So a riflemen, minus 2 strength, minus bonus vs. mounted units, plus bonus vs. riflemen. Used by the Austrians in WWI. Should it be Gunpowder units or Riflemen?

UP:
Power of Patronage: +2 for every cultural building

Includes any building producing culture, except for anything made cultural by a random event.

Spanish UHV:
1. No English, or French, or Dutch cities in the Americas in 1700 AD
2. Control Aztec and Incan territory in 1760 AD
3. Control the core area of 3 non-Austrian European civilizations by 1900 AD

Austrian UHV:
1: Change Government to Hereditary Rule by 1550 AD, never change again until 1900 AD
2: Vienna must be the most cultural city in the world in 1850 AD
3: Have complete control of the Bosporus, Germany and the Balkans in 1914 AD

Dutch UHV:
1. Have the most extended map of the world in 1650 AD (50 years later)
2. Be the first to found a city in Australia
3. Secure or get by trade 7 spices resources by 1775 AD

(Didn't change anything because I'm confused about what you said BurnEmDown)

@BurnEmDown: For the Dutch one, did you mean have one of each luxury resource? That sounds pretty good, I guess. For how realistic it is, I have no idea. I wouldn't know.

@All: I hope I incorporated everyone's ideas and have fixed all the flaws.

UB: Nice. But 2 is maybe overpowered. (But fun) Or the RFCEurope version. Remove +3 (or reduse it to 1) and give it +10% and +1 and +1 with Hit Singles.

UU: This makes it too weak. I think the one in RFCEurope is nice. Currasier (something) with 50% against gun, melee, archer. I think this is too strong so I propose +25% attack vs. those. Or give the cavalry this bonusses.

Dutch UHV of Burn: Nice. It's pretty historic. (And I should now it, I'm Dutch)

 

[Bonci]

Italy

Leader:
Vittorio Emanuele II
Mussolini

Spawn Date
1860

UP
Power of the Opera:
Creates a Theater in every built or conquered city.
or
Power of the Architectonic Heritage(?)
+2 culture and +1 happiness in every city.

UB
Pizzeria: replaces Grocer
+1 Happiness
or
Football Stadium: replaces coliseum
+1 Happiness and 1 more with football (from Wembley)

UU
Alpino: Replaces Rifleman
Starts with Guerrilla and/or Woodsman
or
Carabiniere: Replaces Rifleman
+50% city defense or +2 first strikes

UHV
1: Never lose a city in the european territory until 2000
2: Control at least 2(more?) cities in each Horn of Africa,Etiopia and Libya in 1920(40?)
3: Control Greece and Indochina in 1945 (never achieved)
or
3:Be the most powerful european civilization in 1945 (first in scoreboard)

sorry for bad grammar

 

[kairob]

Spanish UHV:
1. No English, or French, or Dutch cities in the Americas in 1700 AD
2. Control Aztec and Incan territory in 1760 AD
3. Control the core area of 3 non-Austrian European civilizations by 1900 AD

I don't like the Austrian exclusion here, how about just 3 European Civlizations?

Austrian UHV:
1: Change Government to Hereditary Rule by 1550 AD, never change again until 1900 AD
2: Vienna must be the most cultural city in the world in 1850 AD
3: Have complete control of the Bosporus, Germany and the Balkans in 1914 AD

I like these except forcing them to have a civic. UHV's are victory conditions not restrictions.

Expansionist would be something like -
1. Control Korea and the Philippines by 1650
2. Vassalize China by 1700
3. Control Indonesia and Oceania (Polynesia, perhaps Australia and New Zealand) by 1850

Isolationist would be -
1. Have no open borders and no foreign trade routes in 1650
2. Have no foreign culture in Japan in 1700
3. Do not expand outside your spawn area before 1850

The first one is too aggressive, whilst the second is a list of restrictions rather than achievements. Personally I think the Current UHV's are OK.

@Bonci, thanks for the Italian contribution. I will add them to the front page later, first I want to see which of your options people like the most.

Although I have some suggestions for the UHV's, how about swapping the second one with 'Control 8 cities on the Mediterranean Sea'?

Lastly, for the French UHV's as we have 2 about Louisiana and Canada, how about swapping one for controlling West Africa?

 

[Zagoroth]

I concur. The UHV's should push the player to achieve the technological, cultural, and/or Imperial achievements of the civilizations. As of now all of Africa is completely ignored by the Europeans. Asia also is completely ignored. Portugal should try and establish a port city in Japan as well as China. England and France should vie for control over Indochina. England should try and vassalize China, the closest thing to representing the initial Unequal treaties following the conclusion of The Opium Wars.

Bonci: I think the first 3rd UHV is better. Being the highest score European nation feels kind of generic, while controlling Indochina sounds intriguing.

 

[JiimBV]

I don't like the Austrian exclusion here, how about just 3 European Civlizations?

Well, the point of it is to represent the Austrian-Spanish Hapsburg alliance, however, it would make little difference since Austria's so far away. I suppose it's up to you.

I like these except forcing them to have a civic. UHV's are victory conditions not restrictions.

Yeah, fair enough. Perhaps Austria should start a capitulated vassal of Germany. As Austria in the beginning was just an extension of the HRE or Germany or whatever it was at the time, I'm fairly sure.

1st Austrian UHV:
-Break free of German rule and control Germany by 1800 AD (sounds fun to me)
-Be the first in score in 1850 AD (realistic, depending on how you look at it, but not as cool)
-Be the first to reach the Modern Era (not sure, but may be true)

Lastly, for the French UHV's as we have 2 about Louisiana and Canada, how about swapping one for controlling West Africa?

How about..

French UHV:
1. Colonize Quebec, the Hudson Bay and Louisiana by 1760 AD
2. Build the Statue of Liberty and the Eiffel Tower in Paris by 1900 AD
3. Have exclusive control of West Africa and South East Asia by 1900 AD

3 means no other country has cities in West Africa (unless they are your vassal), and you must have at least 6 cities in it, if it includes NW Africa, 4 if only the Mali area. As for South East Asia, Khmer area, from Singapore to Hanoi and Pagan. Requires 4 cities in SE Asia.

I concur. The UHV's should push the player to achieve the technological, cultural, and/or Imperial achievements of the civilizations. As of now all of Africa is completely ignored by the Europeans. Asia also is completely ignored. Portugal should try and establish a port city in Japan as well as China. England and France should vie for control over Indochina. England should try and vassalize China, the closest thing to representing the initial Unequal treaties following the conclusion of The Opium Wars.

Maybe replace one of these(for Britain):
1. Found at least 3 cities in every continent by 1730 AD
2. Have 3 non-European vassals in 1950 AD
3. First to enter Industrial and Modern era
with:
-Control China and South-East Asia in X (someone else figure it out)
-Control East Asia, India, South Africa, Hudson's Bay and Australia by X (around 1800?)
-Vassalize India, China, Canada and Australia (requires getting rid of 2)
-Control X% of the world in 1730 AD, with at least one city on every continent (requires getting rid of 1)
-Have 4/5 non-European vassals in 1950 AD (requires getting rid of 2)
?

I don't know, someone else think of something!!

 

[Zagoroth]

Controlling China and South-East Asia would be either 1842 (end of first Opium War) or 1860 (end of second Opium War).

 

[T_F]

@Kairob: You're right about the Japanese UHVs. I would like to see a colonial Japan though.

I concur. The UHV's should push the player to achieve the technological, cultural, and/or Imperial achievements of the civilizations. As of now all of Africa is completely ignored by the Europeans. Asia also is completely ignored. Portugal should try and establish a port city in Japan as well as China. England and France should vie for control over Indochina. England should try and vassalize China, the closest thing to representing the initial Unequal treaties following the conclusion of The Opium Wars.

Perhaps there should be some kind of mechanic where a non-European nation can grant a European nation control of one of its cities without affecting culture and boundaries (though I don't know if this is at all possible). With Japan, though, giving Portugal one of your cities is quite a setback - the AI seems to found more cities than I do, but I usually only have 3 or 4 cities in Japan including Sapporo.

@Jiim: One of England's UHVs definitely should involve controlling India somehow. Just a suggestion (and probably not a good idea), maybe one could involve defeating the American Revolution. I like the control X% of the world, it might be easier to say 'have the most land area in 1750' or 1850 or something (but that's a rather different goal).

British and French AI should be more prone to founding cities on small Pacific islands, and something should be added to make that a more rewarding choice.

 

[BurnEmDown]

BTW if you write a UHV about vassalizing other civs (especially specific ones) you should add "or control" since sometimes these civs could collapse and then the UHV is pretty much doomed. If the critera includes "or control" this gives the player an option to still get the UHV even if the target civ as collapsed, or maybe if he wants to control the area himself (for example India might be a nice spot to control yourself, especially after Biology).

 

[Bonci]

@Bonci, thanks for the Italian contribution. I will add them to the front page later, first I want to see which of your options people like the most.

Although I have some suggestions for the UHV's, how about swapping the second one with 'Control 8 cities on the Mediterranean Sea'?

ummm I tried to create 2 UHV's that Italy achieved in reality and one that they didn't managed to accomplish...historically Italy had a colonial empire that included Libya,Eritrea,Somalia and Etiopia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Impero_Italiano.png
Sorry the pic is in italian...but in green there are the territories of the italian colonial empire and in blue the territories that they tried to conquer

If you think that it's better to have 2 "aspirational" UHV's then I think your proposal is ok

Oh I was wondering if there could be the possibility to have an italian Resurgence or something like that that would be awesome

 

[dagriggstar]

Just some thoughts...

Japan
- Have 3/4 cities (basically all the cities you place in Japan need "x" amount of culture) with more than x amount of culture in 1800 (Means you have to quickly unite Japan then focus on culture not science, which simulates their stagnation)
- Have the most techs in asia in 1910 (So you have to quickly switch to a science focus)
- Control the entire Pacific coast south of and including Vladivostok (ie includes Vladivostok, should Russia found it) along Asia and (possibly) Australia in 1950
With a changed UP
The power of specialisation (or something along those lines)
- All specialists give double yields (Makes mercentism more rewarding, allows a quick switch from culture focus to science focus)

Qing China
- Control all of China by 1650 (perhaps too early, depends on gameplay)
- Control and have a majority population in 2 holy cities (If you have Taosim in the mod then 3, but I don't think you've kept it in...) by 1920 (Assuming you make the Buddhist Holy city Lhasa, since Buddhism had largely gone from India...)
- Have the highest culture in the world in 1915 (To give Japan a tech advantage mostly, since otherwise this probably won't happen...)
UP - The power of the nomad - barbarians do not enter your territory. Mostly because Ming dynasty is going to have multiple sources of problems, including (I'd assume) heavy barb invasions from the north. This way those barbs won't wipe out the Qing (but later the Chinese rebels civ might)...

Ottomans and Persia should both have control Mesopotamia in 1650 (or thereabouts). Just to make them arch rivals, even more than before. Persia should be able to rush Mesopotamia before the Ottomans get there (as in reality) so a later date helps the Ottomans while the earlier date helps the Persians. Perhaps make the Persian UU an extra move, just to make it alittle easier to rush Mesopotamia Don't like the Sunni islam in Persia though...Perhaps Control the historical area of the Ottoman Empire in 1920 (ie after WWI, if we can get WWI working properly that is)

I'd really like to see the American UHV involve Manifest destiny and protecting France too (which would be a real challenge)...

Sweden should have controlling the Baltic as a UHV condition too...And something to make landing units on the continent easier like Amphibious promotion...

I'm an Aussie but even I don't know what we've tried to acheive historically Like have friendly relations with the US and the UK in 2000 AD...UB could be Cricket Grounds though, we have them in all our major cities (But this would be too similar to the Canadian UB...)
Actually a UHV condition could be to make the Vietnam war happen...since apparently we're the ones that convinced the US that the march of Communism would continue through Vietnam to the rest of SE asia...which for us would be errr undesirable...

Also don't know about the #3 conditions for France and Spain...Perhaps for Spain have control the Phillipines and Cuba in 1900 (and a condition for America to go against that, to force a Spanish-America war). France could be to have the most territory in Africa in 1900 too...

 

[kairob]

@Bonci - Your right it is usually 2 things they achieved and one they didn't, however some countries were more successful in their goals than others. The losing parties of the World Wars likely had very high ambitions that were unrealised, as such we have to use a little leniency in choosing UHVs for civs with untapped potential (Like the Aztec and Incan UHVs in Rhye), I thought (although, again this isn't my best era of history) that the ambitions of Italy early on was the restoration of the Med as a 'Mare Nostrum'.

@dagriggstar - I quite like most of your ideas, but remember that AI don't go for UHV's so we can't use them to force AI behavior, Other than that some very good suggestions.

Also at least one of the Australia UHVs should be to get a high population by the mid-late nineties, as after WWII the Australian Government realised they had to increase their population and started a program of increased immigration from Europe.

 

[JiimBV]

These are just suggestions, bad ones, as I know little about Australia.

Australian UHV Ideas:
-Control Japan in 1945 (victory over Japan?)
-Control South-East Asia (Vietnam) by X (not sure of the date)
-Every civilization must be "Pleased" with you by 2000
-Average city size of X by Y
-Highest population by X

UP:
Power of Survival: Cities cannot go below 3 population points

UB:
Sports Complex? (replace Amphitheatre)
Adds happiness?

Hostel or Immigration Office? (replaces Customs House or whatever it is )
Acts as a mini-American-UP, drawing in immigrants

UU:
No idea.

Gotta go... sleepy time.

 

[micbic]

Mexico UHVs:

Control California, and the South part of the Rockies (Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico) at 1900.
Lose no city to USA, till 2000.
Leave no European cities in C. America or Carribean in 1950.
Build the Panama Canal (wonder?)
Have at least 6 hospitals, to avoid spread of the swine flu!!!!!

UU: Something partisan-style.
UB: Dunno