RFC:I - Civ Discussion.

BurnEmDown · Aug 29, 2009

A strategic resource that gives happiness? Perhaps a building should make it give happiness later on, but on its own it shouldn't give happiness.
Also what do you mean "allows Saltpeter". I'm guessing as in build an improvement that will provide Saltpeter, but if that's the case then reveals does the same thing, so allows is not necessary.
Edit: Just saw now that you added it as an example of how it should look like, so ignore what I just said

@pan: Well we should talk about things that will make it easy to start coding, major things like the ages, tech tree, civics (even if just names) civs, new features, the map. But some things which go into great detail should be left out till later, for example we're not discussing about some civ's name maps, since that wouldn't benefit us much.
All I'm saying is lets focus on the big things and even right after the first test is out we could focus on the little things. (In RFC:E for example, in the first test, most civs didn't have complete UHVs and few had no UP's).

JiimBV · Aug 29, 2009

BurnEmDown said:
A strategic resource that gives happiness? Perhaps a building should make it give happiness later on, but on its own it shouldn't give happiness.
Also what do you mean "allows Saltpeter". I'm guessing as in build an improvement that will provide Saltpeter, but if that's the case then reveals does the same thing, so allows is not necessary.

The tech is called "Fireworks"... I don't know about you, but they always make me happy. And once the Chinese discovered Maybe first there could be "Gunpowder", revealing and allowing saltpeter, but not giving it any use. Also, Ivory is both a luxurious and strategic resource.

No.. oil is revealed before it can be welled, so "allows" is necessary. If I just said "revealed" it would mean that the saltpeter might add small bonuses to the plot, but you couldn't build an improvement to provide it.

Gunpowder: Replaces Gunpowder

lol

Requires Education

Reveals:
Saltpeter

Allows:
Saltpeter

AND

Fireworks:
Requires Gunpowder

+1

with Saltpeter

Fireworks Station/Hut:
We Love the Despot/President/etc. Days provide 1 imaginary population point, which causes no extra :mad:

or

, but allows to work one more plot or specialist
We Love the Despot/President/etc. Days occur more often
+1

Requires Saltpeter

AND

Early Muskets:
Requires Gunpowder
Requires Guilds

Can build:

Early Musketman:
8 :strength:

1

+50% City Defense
Requires Saltpeter

OK, I was double checking your post, and apparently you made an edit. But I put too much work into this post to just trash it. Here it is anyways. :lol:

BurnEmDown · Aug 29, 2009

Oh, yeah, forgot about Ivory

Well Ivory is a really minor strategic resources, it only allows 1 unit.
Saltpeter on the other hand would be like Iron or Copper, allowing a unit that is generally stronger than other units of it's era, so it's strong enough of it's own without happiness bonuses.
Yes fireworks make people happy, and used on occasions of national celebrations more often (independence days and the like) so extra citizen during "we love the" or these days happening more often sounds right. BTW the extra citizen could cause sickness or unhappiness since cities only get these events if they have a lot more happy and healthy people than angry and sick people, so 1 more in each wouldn't matter.

kairob · Aug 29, 2009

Feel free to discuss it here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8409480#post8409480

I will keep the front page updated with the consensus of the thread.

dagriggstar · Sep 6, 2009

Australia UHV

- Export 7 resources (most likely candidates - Uranium, Iron, Wine, Gold, Coal, Sheep and Aluminium) in 2000
Why ? - Reflects the trade policies of Aus. We have trade agreements with the US, Japan, China, India, Russia...list goes on, but those are some pretty big markets. More Uranium here than anywhere else, big metal and wine exports to China, Large coal reserves, Sheep historically important). Problem is adding all those resources to Aus, which is essentially a desert continent. Although you can put some of that stuff in the desert...

Sign 3 Defensive pacts by 2000 (Possibly form a "Coalition" or 3-way alliance eg UK, US, Aus if that gets complicated since def pact is cancelled if one member declares war)
Why ? - ANZUS treaty, in the past there's been others (eg Indonesia I'm pretty sure) I'm sure there's others. Also might force you into an unwanted war (In reality this could be Iraq). Something that's not "open borders" (too many others have that) or "pleased" attitude etc.

Build an Olympic Park, a National Park and an Opera House by 1950.
Why ? - Hosted two Olympic games (Melb. 1956, Syd 2000)
- Kakadu national park/Uluru national park. Kakadu was really established in the 80's, Urulu well...tourism started in the 40's I think...
- Sydney Opera house (1973)
If that is too easy then Change the Olympic park wonder to require 4 Ampitheatres (Sports stadiums). Bigger countries tend to get the Olympics anyway. Too difficult and just move the date back.

UP
Power of resources
Other civs are willing to pay more :gold:

in exchange for your resources
Why ? - See strategy section...

Strategy
Early - The focus is those nat. wonders. They should be so early you can't really build alot else (like the Maya UHV, where you have to beeline Calendar, then Code of Laws, then start building that wonder straight away). You'll need the three in three different cities to suceed here too (Prob syd, melb and bris). If Brits don't found Adelaide and Perth though they take priority. You'll need Perth and Adelaide (possibly also Darwin) for those desert resources. They'll need :culture:

(Adelaide will likely be low pop high :culture:

city, that way you can get those desert resources. Reflecting reality, Adelaide "The city of Churches") since the sooner you get those desert resources hooked up the better (trade them, get your economy going). Brits will prob. get you involved in a war at some point (in reality - WWI) but its only an issue if its against Japan/China. You should be able to get through any early wars by way of other British territories (mainly India) taking care of Asian affairs. As the British empire declines you'll need to fight for yourself increasingly, towards the end zone of that first UHV condition you'll be fighting someone at your doorstep. If your trade routes are cut off you'll die a slow and painful death (No economy). (Japanese strategy for dealing with Australia should be to cut off trade routes rather than try to take the island. As it was in reality). You'll need to hold off the numerically superior Japanese (so take good defensive positions...) until someone comes saves you (in reality America and they'll prob. be the only ones who could help you here too...so suck up to them!). Once you deal with Japan, things get interesting. You'll probably by now have polarised relations with the AI. This makes it difficult for you to find new trades, which means if say, your trading Uranium to America, but they hook up a new source and cancel the deal, you won't have many options. Also, if you trade with say your allies enemies, then you both a) - make a potential war opponent stronger and b) - suffer worse relations and therefore AI could cancel that def pact you need for the UHV. You'll have some more wars no doubt, so will need to keep up tech wise, so will need :gold:

from trade (your land is mostly desert anyway, so unlikely to ever have alot of locally generated :gold:

)

UHV Condition one might be a given considering you'll need to be trading alot of resources anyway to run a decent economy...

civ_king · Sep 8, 2009

~~What is RFC:I?~~ nvm, RFC Imperium

EDIT Stuff
@Brazil; they aren't cutting the forests, they are burning them,
@Australia; how about UP: the Outback, you can put preserves on desert and they give +1 commerce, that's Unique right?
@India; the power of Vegetarianism, decrease food needed to grow by 25% double food from grain and no healthiness from pig or cow (as they aren't eaten in India, especially beef)

kairob · Sep 9, 2009

@Brazil; they aren't cutting the forests, they are burning them,

True, but I am running out of ideas for their UP.

@Australia; how about UP: the Outback, you can put preserves on desert and they give +1 commerce, that's Unique right?

Correct it is unique, it is however also useless. some tiles give 0 food, 0 production but 1 commerce? Who would ever use that tile over a specialist?

@India; the power of Vegetarianism, decrease food needed to grow by 25% double food from grain and no healthiness from pig or cow (as they aren't eaten in India, especially beef)

This is an interesting idea, I'll think on it.

Thanks for your input by the way.

More ideas are always welcome.

civ_king · Sep 9, 2009

but it would solve happiness issues too

kairob · Sep 9, 2009

The Preserve on the Desert? No it wouldn't as you only get the +1

if you work the tile, so the amount of extra

would only be the same as the amount of wasted citizens so it wouldn't really be much of a net gain. I don't mind something to do with the Bush but this mechanism doesn't seem to work in my opinion.

Samsa · Sep 9, 2009

As for Brazils UP there could be:

Power of the Monopoly:
-extra trade route per city.
also possible
-trade routes even with closed borders (since monopoly forces everyone to trade with you

)

cause they had a caoutchouc monopoly for some time till someone managed it to export one plant illegal.

or

Power of Goverments:
-no Anarchy between Civic change (maybe only betwen Gov Civics)

since Brazil had a lot of Goverment changes in their history

Cethegus · Sep 9, 2009

Samsa said:
Power of Goverments:
-no Anarchy between Civic change (maybe only betwen Gov Civics)

since Brazil had a lot of Goverment changes in their history

I'm in support of this. I personally feel India's UP should be changed in regular RFC and "Spirituality" should be moved to a later-spawning civ (though, how fitting would it be). When is Brazil spawning anyway?

civ_king · Sep 9, 2009

cethegus said:
i'm in support of this. I personally feel india's up should be changed in regular rfc and "spirituality" should be moved to a later-spawning civ (though, how fitting would it be). When is brazil spawning anyway?

1820!

kairob · Sep 9, 2009

Brazil spawns in 1549 as a vassal of whoever controls most cities in the region. It then gains independence in 1822 if it has not done so already. The system for independence will change to be more complicated in later versions but with my poor coding experience I am sticking with a simple method for the time being.

fireclaw722 · Sep 9, 2009

I think this is the best place but for Dynamic Names I suggest....

Germany:
Kingdom of Prussia(since the HRE was falling apart and historcally HRE's capital wasn't Berlin)
Democratic Republic of Germany(should be Russian vassal name instead)
Socialist Republic of Germany(running SP)
Pretty much the rest should be fine

Austria:
Austrian Kingdom
Austro-Hungarian Alliance(for the "_______ Empire" Dynamic name)
Republic of Austria
(don't know what a good name for Austria running PS would be)
Dominion of Austria
Viceroyalty of Austria
Departments of Austria
German Protectorate of Austria
Soviet Austria
-or-
Russian Protectorate of Austria
(thinking of Turkish vassal names for them)
Democratic Republic of Austria(when they

Poland:
Kingdom of Poland
Polish Republic
Soviet Poland(for Poland as a vassal to Russia or as Poland running SP)
Russian Union of Poland(I really don't know where it came from but it fit's)

Mexico:
United Mexican States
Kingdom of the Mexican Empire(When running HR and the "______ Empire" Dynamic name)
Viceroyalty of New Spain
Mexican States of America(When or If America decides to conquer Mexico)

England or Britian:
British Empire
United Kingdom of Great Britian(after America and Canada spawn while running US/Rep. or HR)

America:
United Kingdom of America(when running HR)
Confederate States of America(when running slavery)
United Socialist States of America(when running SP)
United States of America(when running US or Rep.)

When I say the civics, I know they are going to be changed but I mean:
HR-the absolute or constitutional monarchy
US-complete Democacy
SP-Communism or Socialism
Rep.-Compete Republic
Slavery- the civic that enable whipping(if there will be one)

Any sugesstions(good

or bad

) are welcome.

Mekajiki · Sep 12, 2009

I don't think it's a good idea to use CSA for Slavery in America. The USA had slavery for almost a hundred years before there ever was a Confederate States. That might work if America is still in slavery post-1860 or something though.

Steb · Sep 12, 2009

Spoiler :

As you can see, the CSA are included as a minor civs along with the natives, Chinese rebels, etc. So there's no point in creating an American dynamic name to represent them. Furthermore, Poland is not in the list, and Germany spawns too late to be considered as Prussia.

Besides, the already existing civs already have their dynamic names. What we need is names for the new civs (Austria, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Italy, Sweden), some changes to the tweaked civs (Qing, Ming, Peru, Mexico, Persia), and new ideas for the others if they are relevant.

fireclaw722 · Sep 12, 2009

So for new civs:

Austria:
Austrian Kingdom
Austro-Hungarian Alliance(for the "_______ Empire" Dynamic name)
Republic of Austria
Democratic Republic of Austria(when they run a communism civic)
(don't know what a good name for Austria running the Fascist civic would be)
Dominion of Austria
Viceroyalty of Austria
Departments of Austria
German Protectorate of Austria
Soviet Austria
-or-
Russian Protectorate of Austria
Austrian Province of Trukey

Canada
Dominion of Canada
Socialist Republic of Canada
Imperial Canadian Provinces(Fascist civic)
British Departments of Canada
French Departments of Canada
Soviet Provinces of Canada
Viceroyalty of Spanish Northern America
United Provinces of American Canada

Mexico
United Mexican States
Kingdom of the Mexican Empire(When running Absolute or Constitutional Monarchies)
Viceroyalty of New Spain
American States of Mexico

Italy
Kingdom of Italy
Italian Republic
Imperial Italian Republic(for Fascist civic)
-or-
Imperial Italian Kingdom
-or-
The New Roman Empire
-or-
Imperial Italian Fascism
Deprtments of The Italian Empire
Dominion of The Italian Empire
Viceroyalty of Spanish Italy
German Province of Italy

Panopticon · Sep 12, 2009

Here are names for Australia, Brazil and Sweden in standard format.

Spoiler :

Steb · Sep 12, 2009

Some more suggestions from me (all historical):

Canada
Canada (as the standard democratic name; it's lame but it really is the official name of the country)
OR
Confederation of Canada (not a real name though)
Dominion of Canada (British vassal)
New France (French vassal; one of the last two should come up in pretty much every game, depending who of France and Britain colonizes the area)
Kingdom of Canada (under monarchy; never an official name, but has been suggested at the time of Confederation)

Brazil
Colonial Brazil (Portuguese vassal)
Dutch Brazil (Dutch v.)
Antarctic France (French v.)
Empire of Brazil (monarchy)
Federative Republic of Brazil (democracy)
New State of Brazil (fascist)

Australia
Commonwealth of Australia
New Holland (Dutch v.)
Dominion of Australia (British v.)

EDIT: Crossposted with Panopticon, so there is some repetition. I have a little problem with a Republic of Australia, because even now it's still called a Commonwealth (similarly to Britain, which is never called "Republic of England/Great Britain" in RFC). But there is a Republican movement in Australia (and Canada too, for that matter), so I guess it can be used.

Cethegus · Sep 19, 2009

One question regarding Austria - why not call their UB the Opera House and rename Globe Theatre as 'National Theatre' like it is in RFC:E? It's simple and justified, much more than Opera House and "Operahaus" or "Opera Theatre".

RFC:I - Civ Discussion.

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