RFCE 1.3 Playtest Feedback

[AbsintheRed]

Imho:

All those areas were Viking controlled, but primarily settled Danish Vikings - hence the term Danelaw. They belong in the Danish UHV (and indeed are there), but shouldn't be in the Norwegian UHV, as the Norwegians primarily invaded and settled western Scotland (i.e. the Kingdom of the Isles), Ireland, and the Northern Isles. The Norwegian UHV should focus on those, and indeed they do, except for the awkward inclusion of Mercia.

Yeah, Mercia was added there by mistake
So the UHVs will be: TheIsles, Ireland, Scotland, Normandy, Iceland for Norway
Mercia, London, EastAnglia, Northumbria for Denmark
EDIT: Maybe we can add Northumbria to Norway too, even if that's not completely historical

The province stability level is a different question
I don't mind if some of these provinces are better than unstable for the other civ as well
It's mainly for the human player after all, we can make the Viking conquest somewhat more fun

 

[DC123456789]

Northumbria for Norway is okay (if it doesn't make the UHV too hard, though I kind of doubt that); there was some Norwegian settlement in Lancaster, though definitely the Danes in Jorvik were in charge overall there.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Imho:

Northumbria for Norway is okay (if it doesn't make the UHV too hard, though I kind of doubt that); there was some Norwegian settlement in Lancaster, though definitely the Danes in Jorvik were in charge overall there.

Well, currently the 2nd Norwegian UHV is set to the 13th century - which I kinda dislike as it's very late both gameplay-wise, and also for some of those provinces historically.
As long as it stays in it's current form, it won't be hard no matter how many British provinces we add.

 

[gilgames]

Adding Scotland to Norwegian UHV is ok, but you have to kill an AI for that, i dislike that otherway to settle The Isles too means to me to lower viking points back to 80, since doing a settler takes a lot that time imo.

 

[DC123456789]

Yeah, 13th century doesn't really makes sense for the 2nd UHV, that's really the temporal domain of the 3rd UHV. We could consider 1066, the death of Harald Hardrada and the last Norwegian attempt to control England as well as the end of the Viking Age, but I'm not sure if that's too early or not.

 

[gilgames]

Yeah, 13th century doesn't really makes sense for the 2nd UHV, that's really the temporal domain of the 3rd UHV. We could consider 1066, the death of Harald Hardrada and the last Norwegian attempt to control England as well as the end of the Viking Age, but I'm not sure if that's too early or not.

That date is fine, can be defined as "by" also.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Yeah, 13th century doesn't really makes sense for the 2nd UHV, that's really the temporal domain of the 3rd UHV. We could consider 1066, the death of Harald Hardrada and the last Norwegian attempt to control England as well as the end of the Viking Age, but I'm not sure if that's too early or not.

1066 is definitely too early from a gameplay perspective

 

[gilgames]

This is an outrage!!!!!!

Any civ should NOT collapse under Golden Age.....

 

[AbsintheRed]

Why would golden ages prevent collapses if you are very unstable?
It already gives a huge boost to stability. If you are still so unstable with those bonuses that your civ can collapse, then bare the consequences.
It's just natural from a gameplay perspective.

Historically/realistically it's a stretch though, but not that unrealistic.
Parts of your empire can still disagree with your rule, even if arts, culture, industry, and whatnot are flourishing through your realm.
Alternatively just think of your golden age as a shorter one.

Anyway, back to gameplay:
If GAs would totally prevent collapses, that would result in some exploits for the human player.
You can collect Great People to start a very long golden age. It's not impossible to reach 60 turns of GA with wonders included. 24-36 turns long GA is possible fairly early.
But even 8-12 turns of golden age would mess up with the stability system, would lead to human players going into insane amounts of negative stability right before the UHV deadlines.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Good innovation, but resources saved if the city is founded on spot with T/D/F

IMO cities should keep the resources, doesn't it happen that way?
If for nothing else, for the AI. AI city placement is already very complex, don't want to add another rules for them to avoid settling on some specific resources.
I think it's also better for the human players this way, removing the resource on city placement would just lead to annoyance in most situations without adding any real strategic depth.

I'm having second thoughts. At least I'm not that sure in it anymore.
Should I also add the resource removal on settling cities?

 

[Swarbs]

If GAs would totally prevent collapses, that would result in some exploits for the human player.

Methinks gilgames was trying to use those exploits so Portugal could conquer all of Spain and Morocco. ..

 

[gilgames]

I am bit more calm, so I can explain what happened.

1200AD sc.

Conquered: Andalusia, later La Mancha, Leon and Galicia
I was solid with it +25
Found and converted to protestantism. After some anomaly stability was +21 (over 100 years)
Got some cities on the islands still +21
Changed to theocracy and militarism +21
2 uhv done. --> GA + dows +21
Invded Teutoan and Morocco (2 turns) +13 +2
moved military + settled 1 city for uhv -6 -15
befre the last turn to take marrkesh to be able to settle the last city and win
Collapse -> Ragequit.

IMO this is more then unrealistic as much as city flips on collapse
(when spain collapsed Valencia fliped back to Morocco?! WTH?...(I know it used to happened, still))

 

[AbsintheRed]

The need to raze Moroccan cities before you can settle in border/unstable area is a double punishment for the Portuguese.
The UHV will be changed to be something more suited for the new situation, now that Morocco is also a major civ.
Other than that I don't see anything not WAD in those numbers and events.

 

[gilgames]

The need to raze Moroccan cities before you can settle in border/unstable area is a double punishment for the Portuguese.
The UHV will be changed to be something more suited for the new situation, where Morocco is also a major civ.
Other than that I don't see anything not WAD in those numbers and events.

I have to disagree with you.
Imo if you capture 3 city in golden age with militarism, you should fall 20-30-40 stability due to this (starting from +20), all on border/contested for cherry on top.

Edit: reloaded, took all city at once and UHV victory is done.

 

[PinkPallin]

Thanks, it's greatly appreciated!
There are some strange things going on, like the triggering of the second Scottish UHV.
This means while the actual CTD didn't happen, the bug still caused some issues with the game on Win 7 too...
Various issues in the background might have happened for everyone else too, and with every other supposedly crashing savegame as well.

THAT'S MY FAULT!
I just forgot that some time ago I modified the value in victory.py to 1000, in order to see if the UHV was reachable before the French collapse.
So here are two saves with the unmodified victory.py, together with my apologies.

 

[PinkPallin]

I would need another restart with the save. But this time go into WB before you press end turn, and delete the attacking swedish stack near Varberg (southern part of the Scandinavian Peninsula)
This theoretically eliminates the possibility for every issue connected to crash, just want to be sure.

And just to be sure, two saves in Windows 10 and one in Windows 7.
Note that this time Louis XIV didn't offer Astronomy and 100 gold for Arabic Knowledge.

 

[PinkPallin]

And most importantly, a third test: run the savegame with the attached CvGameCoreDLL.dll. Unzip and copy over the file to ...\Mods\RFCEurope\Assets\
Replace the original version of the file with this new one.

Don't forget that all of these have to be done in revision 1174, and pls upload all 3 savegames from the beginning of the next turn.

Yes, all these saves (the previous too) were with SVN 1174.
And here' the last lot.
In these Louis XIV comes back to offer Astronomy and 100 gold for Arabic Knowledge.

 

[AbsintheRed]

THAT'S MY FAULT!
I just forgot that some time ago I modified the value in victory.py to 1000, in order to see if the UHV was reachable before the French collapse.
So here are two saves with the unmodified victory.py, together with my apologies.

And just to be sure, two saves in Windows 10 and one in Windows 7.
Note that this time Louis XIV didn't offer Astronomy and 100 gold for Arabic Knowledge.

Yes, all these saves (the previous too) were with SVN 1174.
And here' the last lot.
In these Louis XIV comes back to offer Astronomy and 100 gold for Arabic Knowledge.

Thanks, very helpful to finish my tests!
Quick question
Your first 2 saves are from Win7, not from Win 10? So the crash went through for you without any modifications as well?

EDIT: ohh, nevermind, getting tired
forgot for a sec that it's the other way around

 

[gilgames]

I had a CTD in 2005, updated and played till 1730+ without ctd again. So you are obviously a magician

 

[Swarbs]

France is still bugged, in that if you capture Milan before the plague of Justinian the plague will spread as far as Paris and all of France.