RFCE Leaders

[AbsintheRed]

To change the discussion....
For Barabossa, I really think the second pic (the one in the middle) looks the best. The BG is awesome and the overall design is reminiscent to Charlemagne and has a very professional feel to it. The first and the one on the bottom look okay but not as good.

It's not a good thing if it's reminiscent to Charlemagne too much.
And to be honest, I would imagine a bigger beard for Barbarossa
The BG is the easiest thing to change, but as this LH is Capo's Dusan, that image is serbian so doesn't fit Barbarossa at all

The first LH was intended to be Barbarossa, but I don't really like it
The 4th was made to be Robert the Bruce, and would need heavy adjustments to fit as a german leader

Actually I think the 3rd would be the easiest to change to a quite good Barbarossa: with a new BG, changing his hair and beard to red, and slightly recolouring some of his clothes

As for Jan Sobieski, I think he really deserves a fix, his shoulders kept disappearing!

Yeah I know, but it's not an easy fix. There is another Sobieski LH out there, but personally I hate it...

All in all, there needs to be more leaders, I hate seeing Philip the Bold a little late in my game.

We shouldn't really add many more leaders just for the sake of having them, just for eye candy.
I mean we could easily add Charles V to Spain, Henry the Navigator to Portugal, Henry VIII to England, etc. They were all very important and there is top quality art availeable.
But as they are too close on the timeline to leaders already in RFCE, it wouldn't make too much sence in a historical mod like this.
Also, if the mod is too heavy art-wise, it can cause serious speed issues and MAFs

Having said that, 2-3 leaders per civ is probably fine, and I do plan to add a second leader for Burgundy

Sword of Islam, though I haven't played it in awhile, I think it has a good variety of leaders for each era.

You are also wrong on this. Actually SoI has only one leader for each civ. Abuot 30-35 leaders totally.
RFCE already has 40+, so we really have to be careful not to overwhelm the mod...

Doesn't Geroge III have a skin on Civ colonization? You could use that one.

No, he doesn't. And this LH is mostly based on Peter and Joao.
Ekmek based him on this picture. I think the LH is accurate and real good, though may be even better with a different BG

Is it just me or is Genoa's Simone really close to Bulgaria's Simeon?

I'm not sure on the similarity, but the LH used as Simone Boccanegra was made to be Massinissa (Carthagian leader)
Thus the background and the elephants on his armor. He should definitely be changed
Fortunately there is a WIP LH for Boccanegra, so we will hopefully have a proper replacement soon

I like the percent chance thing by the way

Actually it should have been working this way all along, I had nothing to do with the system. It's from base RFC
I only fixed the issues RFCE had with it.

 

[TheCzech]

*snip*

Oh boy was I wrong!

Anyways, I see your points, an I had a feeling the first leader head was supposed to be Barabossa, just the way he dressed. Maybe if one could use his head, because it looks pretty good; the body looks weird to me and overall seems a little off (he looks more gentle than he should be etc.)

What I liked in SoI was the amount of different music for each leader/civ, though I really liked the idea of Charlemagne's theme for the early Germany and Burgundy. Those areas were split off after Charlemagne's empire. That is a really good thing, I hated hearing the Celtic theme on the German's and Burgundian's. It sounded stupid!

I do wonder how many leader's use Alexander's face? Kievian Rus's Yaroslav, Ivan of Russia... wow.

On Jan Sobieski: Holy Crap that one's even worse!

 

[AbsintheRed]

Actually there is another reskin of that Barbarossa, and the colouring of his clothes looks much better
But I still don't know, this LH just doesn't feel like a Barbarossa to me...

 

[TheCzech]

Actually there is another reskin of that Barbarossa, and the colouring of his clothes looks much better
But I still don't know, this LH just doesn't feel like a Barbarossa to me...

*snip*

I really like this one! I think something should be changed about him though.... He does look quite life like mind you.

He should look something like this:

or

The on you showed me is hell of a lot better than the current one!

 

[AbsintheRed]

Hmm, so you like that one. Will test him ingame, then we will see

Anyway, what do you think of Haakon?
It could be a good LH, but unfortunately has some issues. Especially around his eyes
Somehow it should be improved in one of the next updates, or we should find a better art to replace him.
If neither happens I will have to remove him eventually...

 

[TheCzech]

I should have posted this here!


double post.
Civ 5 has pretty decent music, and I wasn't sure if this could fit for Barbarossa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQz_HfJwpaw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Just a suggestion, but I'd prefer something else.

EDIT:
I found something interesting, the first part could loop; but it would be for the early middle ages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwQhZOzf7vA


Something else for BG music during regular gameplay:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNNYOAeXa6I&feature=related

For Haakon, I will give an opinion in just a bit, I am currently playing through again; but when there are problems I would recommend not having it in there by the final product.

 

[3Miro]

I should have posted this here!


double post.
Civ 5 has pretty decent music, and I wasn't sure if this could fit for Barbarossa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQz_HfJwpaw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Just a suggestion, but I'd prefer something else.

EDIT:
I found something interesting, the first part could loop; but it would be for the early middle ages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwQhZOzf7vA


Something else for BG music during regular gameplay:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNNYOAeXa6I&feature=related

For Haakon, I will give an opinion in just a bit, I am currently playing through again; but when there are problems I would recommend not having it in there by the final product.

The first one sounds kind of creepy. Its fine if you think it is appropriate.

The second is the opening credits theme of Conan the Barbadian (I think it is called the Hammer of Crom or Krom). Great movie and music, but I am a bit worried about copyright, some people/companies go mental about it.

Slavic music is good.

 

[AbsintheRed]

What do you think of changing Abu Yusuf Yaqub to his son?
He was at least as succesfull as his father, and we have a more detalied background on him

Also, his name is the same, so this would only be a civilopedia change
His bio:

Spoiler :

Abu Yusuf Ya'qub al-Mansur (c. 1160 – January 23, 1199), also known as Moulay Yacoub, was the third Almohad Amir

Succeeding his father, Abu Ya'qub Yusuf, Yakub al-Mansur reigned from 1184 to 1199 with distinction. During his tenure, trade, architecture, philosophy and the sciences flourished, to say nothing of military conquests. In 1191 Yaqub al-Mansur repelled the occupation of Paderne Castle and the surrounding territory near Albufeira, in the Algarve which had been controlled by the Portuguese army of King Sancho I since 1182.

In the Battle of Alarcos, on July 18, 1195, he defeated the Castilian King Alfonso VIII. After victory, he took the title al-Mansur Billah ("Made Victorious by God"). The battle is recounted by the historian Abou Mohammed Salah ben Abd el-Halim of Granada in his Roudh el-Kartas (History of the Rulers of Morocco, French translation by A. Beaumier, 1860) in 1326.

He died in Marrakech, Morocco. During his reign, he undertook several major projects. He built the Koutoubia Mosque and the El Mansouria mosque in Marrakech and a kasbah, accessed by Bab Agnaou and Bab Ksiba in the southern part of its medina. He attempted to build what would have been the world's largest mosque in Rabat. However, construction on the mosque stopped after al-Mansur died. Only the beginnings of the mosque had been completed, including the Hassan Tower. Al-Mansur protected the philosopher Averroes and kept him as a favorite at court.

Al-Mansur, came to the throne after his father was killed in Portugal in 1184. He promised revenge for his father's death, but fighting with the Almohads, who were ousted from the throne, delayed him in Africa. After defeating the Almohads again, he sent out for Iberian Peninsula to avenge his father's death. Landing in Iberia, defeating and capturing all major cities, Al-Mansur, returned to Morocco with three thousand Christian captives, young women and children.

When the Christians in Iberian Peninsula heard of Al-Mansur's absence to Africa, revolted, capturing many of the Moorish cities, including Silves, Vera, and Beja. When Al-Mansur heard this news, he returned to the Iberian Peninsula, and defeated the Christians again. This time, many were taken in chained groups of fifty each, and later sold in Africa as slaves.

While Al-Mansur was away in Africa, the Christians mounted the largest army of that time period of over 300,000 men to defeat Al- Mansur. Immediately upon hearing this, Mansur returned to Iberia and defeated Alfonso's army, killing 150,000, taking money, valuables and other goods beyond calculation.

The town of Moulay Yacoub, outside of Fez, Morocco, is named after Al-Mansur, and is best known for its therapeutic hot springs.

 

[Leoreth]

I've always thought you mean Al-Mansur anyway, he's the more prominent of the two.

 

[TheCzech]

The first one sounds kind of creepy. Its fine if you think it is appropriate.

The second is the opening credits theme of Conan the Barbadian (I think it is called the Hammer of Crom or Krom). Great movie and music, but I am a bit worried about copyright, some people/companies go mental about it.

Slavic music is good.

I think for Barbarossa, the creepy music would fit. He was part of the crusades so, yeah.

It's good to get the OK on the Slav music

Too bad about the second song, as it has major copyright!

As for Haakon, I don't mind the leader head but the eyes are a little annoying, but otherwise I would keep it.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I've always thought you mean Al-Mansur anyway, he's the more prominent of the two.

Yeah, I also got to the conclusion that he was intended to be the son
Even the naming suggest that, it's AbuYusufYaqub in the xml entires - the father is Abu Yaqub Yusuf, the son is Abu Yusuf Yaqub (al-Mansur)
I will change this and add the bio after Beta 6 is released

 

[AbsintheRed]

As for Haakon, I don't mind the leader head but the eyes are a little annoying, but otherwise I would keep it.

Yeah, that's my main problem too
Will try to improve it, but fixing the eye issues is usually hard
If you (or anyone) can find a better art for Haakon in the meanwhile that would be great

 

[ezzlar]

Abu Bakr is a bit too light skinned in beta 6.

 

[TheCzech]

Yeah, that's my main problem too
Will try to improve it, but fixing the eye issues is usually hard
If you (or anyone) can find a better art for Haakon in the meanwhile that would be great

I would love to, but I don't have the program for it!
If I could I would redo some of the leaders in RFCE

 

[Pangur Bán]

It's always puzzled me that Lithuania gets sidelined in these games. I mean, it was the largest state in Europe (west of the Horde) for several medieval centuries and remained pagan until the end of the 14th century and Jogaila's takeover of Poland. You'd imagine it'd be more popular. Not to mention the fact that it's starting location fills one of the voids on most of these maps.

 

[3Miro]

It's always puzzled me that Lithuania gets sidelined in these games. I mean, it was the largest state in Europe (west of the Horde) for several medieval centuries and remained pagan until the end of the 14th century and Jogaila's takeover of Poland. You'd imagine it'd be more popular. Not to mention the fact that it's starting location fills one of the voids on most of these maps.

Same reason in Civ III Firaxis made Simeon look like Genghis Khan, or Night at the Museum Attila the Hun look like Genghis Khan, or Cleopatra being black, or Alexander being blonde ... basically, the answer is ignorance.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Actually I'm not against addig Lithuania, they are the first (by far) on the missed-civs-list.
Would be great to have another competitor in the eastern regions
It may be huge work though.
Anyway, if 3Miro is up to it, I would gladly put together the art and the xml for them

PS: We even have 2 really good LHs directly for Lithuania, Capo's Mindaugas and Den's Vytautas

 

[merijn_v1]

IIRC, Poland represenst the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth. So we don't have to include them. Doesn't their first UHV represents this?

 

[Pangur Bán]

Same reason in Civ III Firaxis made Simeon look like Genghis Khan, or Night at the Museum Attila the Hun look like Genghis Khan, or Cleopatra being black, or Alexander being blonde ... basically, the answer is ignorance.

The odd thing is that they should be popular anyway; your typical US teenager would think 14th century pagans cool ... though only I suppose if they knew about them (as you say).

Actually I'm not against addig Lithuania, they are the first (by far) on the missed-civs-list.
Would be great to have another competitor in the eastern regions
It may be huge work though.
Anyway, if 3Miro is up to it, I would gladly put together the art and the xml for them

PS: We even have 2 really good LHs directly for Lithuania, Capo's Mindaugas and Den's Vytautas

I think if you can get the Dutch in W Europe, you can get anyone in the east. Incidentally if you do add a Lithuanian leader the best candidate is Gediminas. The latter doesn't have the stories that popularize Mindaugas and Vytautas in modern Catholic Lithuania, but he is of far greater historical significance.

 

[AbsintheRed]

IIRC, Poland represenst the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth. So we don't have to include them. Doesn't their first UHV represents this?

Yeah I know
But maybe it would be better if we have both civs

I was thinking about Lithuania before
IMO the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth is very similar to the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy gameplay wise (even if it's not in the timeline of this mod). I mean, they are still separate civs, just got that close throughout history.
Poland and Lithuania should be very close from the beginning, which would eventually lead to defensive pacts and alliance, or voluntary vassalization by one of the sides...
These things could be encouraged by UHVs and precoded diplo relations