RFCEurope 1.0

[AbsintheRed]

Belgrade = Nándorfehérvár, it was an important végvár in the Kingdom of Hungary, especially against the Ottomans in the 15-16th century
I would agree with splitting the Hungary province into two, but I didn't find a proper name for the southern part

EDIT #1: Also, is there any particular reason a pop-1 Cyrene (health surplus of 3-5) ALWAYS gets the plague?

IIRC the first plague is set to always start there
It's absolutely intentional that it mostly (or only) strikes Byzantium

 

[srpt]

I rolled a Russian start and the starting tile was not Moscow it was Pavlovo. I looked up Pavlovo but it didn't seem to have any historical significance. the Moscow site is a bit bare of resources. is this intended?

 

[velosipederast]

Belgrade = Nándorfehérvár, it was an important végvár in the Kingdom of Hungary, especially against the Ottomans in the 15-16th century
I would agree with splitting the Hungary province into two, but I didn't find a proper name for the southern part



IIRC the first plague is set to always start there
It's absolutely intentional that it mostly (or only) strikes Byzantium

Vojvodina? Apart from that, Belgrade is still in Serbia, since it is located on the southern bank of the Danube.

 

[alpav]

Beograd was always a part of Serbia while Vojvodina was not. Throughout the middle ages, Beograd seperated Serbia and Hungary but was on the south side of the Dunav. When Serbia was conquered by Turks it was still not part of Hungary but rather Turkey. It only belonged for a short time to the Hungarians (1427-1521) and some years prior to 1284. After Tsar Dusan, it was the capital of one of the serbian successor states to the empire and the capital of the shortlived serbian uprisings later on.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Vojvodina? Apart from that, Belgrade is still in Serbia, since it is located on the southern bank of the Danube.

Beograd was always a part of Serbia while Vojvodina was not. Throughout the middle ages, Beograd seperated Serbia and Hungary but was on the south side of the Dunav. When Serbia was conquered by Turks it was still not part of Hungary but rather Turkey. It only belonged for a short time to the Hungarians (1427-1521) and some years prior to 1284. After Tsar Dusan, it was the capital of one of the serbian successor states to the empire and the capital of the shortlived serbian uprisings later on.

Yep, the southern border of Hungary around Nándorfehérvár/Belgrade should be the Danube
Is it not set that way?

Btw, if my history memories are correct, the Nándorfehérvár castle itself was north of the Danube, and was under hungarian authority for much longer time
The actual city/town of Belgrade was south of the Danube, and was only under hungarian rule occasionally like you said.
So I think the province is fine (apart from not being split to two), while the city is on that spot for gameplay purposes.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I rolled a Russian start and the starting tile was not Moscow it was Pavlovo. I looked up Pavlovo but it didn't seem to have any historical significance. the Moscow site is a bit bare of resources. is this intended?

The muscovian and kievan city name maps are very inaccurate (especially the muscovian, which is totally off)
I don't have too much knowledge about the area...
I asked around a couple times, but noone was enthusiastic enough to help in improving those

The muscovian starting position's could use a resource buff, you are right

 

[Spirictum]

So I think the province is fine (apart from not being split to two), while the city is on that spot for gameplay purposes.

These gameplay purposes are the terrain around its spot? Maybe these gameplay purposes removed another gameplay purpose of the rebellions. Belgrade being outside of Serbia makes it immune to the urges of independence in Serbia (or at least it's how it was displayed to my few games in 1.0, if I'm wrong please correct me), and that almost neutralize Serbia itself.

If it's indeed that way, Serbia (for the ones who know it's a rebellious province like Catalonia and Oran) will be totally avoided, as no barb or indy city spawn on that area and the only two nations who have to worry about are the Ottomans, that really need to get it (and they'll have to do it with a settler), and the Hungarians that can't allow ottomans to do it (and from my experience with Hungary, Serbia is never on your list of battlefields, and if it is, you're probably doomed with the UHV anyway)

So as it seems to me, Serbia was neutralized by that. I'm not sure of the accuracy of Belgrade, but for gameplay purposes I think Serbia needs a city, so it can mess up any smart nation who wants to capture it (like Catalonia, Oran). But if I'm wrong please tell me.

EDIT: Add Bulgaria to the civs that need to worry about the serbian province, forgot about their UHV. But Belgrad was changed anyway, so I think I'm wasting my time with this correction

 

[alpav]

Well the cities in civ iv represent obviously cities. Correct? Then we should be representing the city Beograd not the castle of Nándorfehérvár. Plus what Spriritum said about the rebellions.

 

[krieger546]

I asked around a couple times, but noone was enthusiastic enough to help in improving those

I might have the spare time and the perseverance, but there's talk that there will be a new map. Soon after I created good (read:time-consuming) namemaps for the Baltic region last year, major changes to the map were made (also in the southern Baltic, iirc) so I've become wary of the ever-changing map.

 

[HolyHandGrenade]

I just found 2 severe problems in Stability.py:

- fctn checkImplosion:Line 292: collapse is triggered with numCities < 11. So it seems with more than 10 cities the human player will never get a civil war. I assume the "<" should be replaced with ">"

- fctn recalcCivicCombos:Line 406: MerchantRepublic is no longer in Civic3 but in Civic0. So this combo check is not triggered currently. iCivic3 should be replaced with iCivic0

 

[simplicissimus]

Hi!

First I want to thank everybody being involved in the development of this mod! It makes me still rather playing civ4 than civ5. You´ve really done a great job!

Now on topic: During my recent game with France something really weird has happened: the reformation struck Rome and the Holy City of Catholicism wasn´t catholic anymore! Protestantism in Rome - why not, but catholicism shouldn´t be able to be prosecuted out of its Holy City!

 

[AbsintheRed]

@Spirictum and alpav: So you think the city of Beograd should be moved 1S, south of the rivers?

@krieger: Yeah, it was unfortunate that you invested your time on the city names just before the update.
But the map is now final: there will only be very minor or resource changes from now on (with the possible exception of the Levant and Anatolia area, which still didn't get the promised overhaul)
It would be greatly appreciated if you could revise the Kievan and Muscovian name maps

@HHG: Thanks, fixed those

@simplcissimus: Hey, welcome to CFC! And of course to RFCE
The Papal State shouldn't be able to research Printing Press first. Will look into it.

 

[Spirictum]

I wouldn't say if Beograd should or shouldn't be where it is now, my only concern is about the Serbian Province.

If it's more accurate to have Beograd in Serbia, I would strongly support this decision (but I have no idea, nor intentions on searching about this).

If the accuracy is better accomplished with Beograd where it is now (in hungary or in this new idea of splitting the province in two), I'll stay with that choice.

The only thing I think is necessary to think about is the not so old introduced triggered rebellion on the province of Serbia, that without the city of Beograd (the only it had) it becomes almost nullified, as the only civ that would make a city there is the Ottomans (and as an AI I don't even know if it will indeed), and that removes one of the few spots who behaves like this, spawning indies in strong countries (and usually with strong garrisons earned from those strong countries).

If Beograd is still revolting (something I didn't see in any of my 1.0 games), I remove all I said.

My solution to this is one of two: Put Beograd back in Serbia (if it's really more accurate). Or a city can spawn on the province (like in Picardy). The need is for a city that rebels in the province of Serbia, nothing more.

 

[alpav]

It should be moved south of the Dunav as the vast majority of the city is actually there and because it should belong to Serbia not in Vojvodina or in the game Hungary.

 

[Spirictum]

If the city (or its majority) is indeed south of the river, then I agree with the change as alpav said, it seems more accurate this way

 

[krieger546]

@simplicissimus & AbsintheRed: I recently encountered this also when I was playing as Spain and I discovered the Printing Press. A few turns later I saw the message "Rome has converted to Protestantism" and saw Protestantism was the only religion in Rome. Also, it seems Holy Cities get downgraded to normal ones randomly in every game I play. At least Constantinople and Damascus.

@AbsintheRed: I will help out with the city maps, if I have free time in the end of summer. Also, will 2.0 have a completely new map or not? (They say so in the brainstorming thread)

 

[simplicissimus]

@krieger & AbsintheRed: Sorry for answering so late but I wasn´t able to enter the forum´s page from home during the weekend but at work now I´m able to open it without problems !
On topic: The funny thing is that Rome still was named as the Holy City of catholicism at the religions infoscreen although it was prosecuted out.
Do you need a savegame/screenshot?

Another thing I recently noticed: if Jerusalem successfully revolts and you recapture it (which unfortuneatly happened quite often to me) you get the message that your crusade was a success and some troops go back to Europe. Basically I don´t question the return of crusaders after the fullfillment of their oath as it is historically accurate but I think it shouldn´t happen when you crush a rebellion!

 

[Spirictum]

Another thing I recently noticed: if Jerusalem successfully revolts and you recapture it (which unfortuneatly happened quite often to me) you get the message that your crusade was a success and some troops go back to Europe. Basically I don´t question the return of crusaders after the fullfillment of their oath as it is historically accurate but I think it shouldn´t happen when you crush a rebellion!

About that I think the game interpretates this way:
If it's a serious crusade (directed to Jerusalem), after conquering the city, some troops will return home.
If it's a treacherous crusade directed by financial reasons, no troops return, as they went down the wrong path of greed (and that's why I love these crusades).

So I think it presumes that if Jerusalem is held by Indys, Barbs or Muslins, it's always a reason for calling a serious crusade, that if gone right should have the expected result and the return of the troops, even in the case of it being a revolt. Imagine it as a Muslin revolt that took back Jerusalem from your christian nation, one that feeds the coming of a crusade.

 

[AbsintheRed]

moved from the 2.0 thread:

No I meant that upon the conquering of a city, you would have the option to massacre the population of the city that is not your religion. This was in SoI and I wanted to know if it could be implemented in 2.0 also. The only problem is that Europe may not have been as violent the midievil Middle East.

It would be fairly easy to implement
But AFAIK it wasn't common in Europe, so I would rather not add anything like this on city conquest

On other hand I already made a couple changes on the inquisition, even for 1.1
(not everything is coded yet, but most of these are already in place)
Probably it will be more useful/realistic:

• all persecutions now remove max one religion
• chooseable religion for the human, with a popup on persecution if there are more than one target religions
• holy cities cannot be persecuted from their holy religion
• your state religion cannot be persecuted, and you can only persecute if you have a state religion
• persecution has a base chance to succeed between 60% and 90%, based on your civ's faith
  • religious buildings of the target religion may lower this chance
  • religious wonders of the target religion seriously lower this chance
  • Jerusalem has a lower base chance on default
• if persecution succeeds, all religious buildings are destroyed (including religious wonders - this will fix the inconsistency with the Spanish UHV)
• small revolt and unhappiness after both successful and unsuccessful persecution
• some of the population is killed/expelled if persecution succeeds
• gold loot from the killed/expelled population and from the destroyed buildings
• successful persecution increases your faith by one
• interface messages for both the successful and the unsuccessful persecution

 

[merijn_v1]

@ AbsintheRed

Do you have anything to be included in the mod? I don't have anything I want to include so if you don't have anything, a new version can be launched. It has been some time ago and after seeing the changelog, I think it's worth it.