RFCEurope 1.4

[AbsintheRed]

I disagree here - plagues often saw a breakdown in the political order. The Plague of Justinian caused tax rates to rise, trade to fall and legal issues around inheritance and property rights. So some instability from a plague should result - that is half the problem.

Imo the impact of plague on units should be limited so it doesn't outright kill units, but the stability impact should remain to simulate how difficult it was to govern when people were dying in their thousands and the government could do nothing.

After some consideration I decided to leave the extra health instability from plagues.
It's not that severe after all - maximum -1 from each of your cities - and does feel more realistic this way.

 

[DC123456789]

No, didn't touch anything directly connected to that.
Maybe one of my recent changes still had an effect on that?
I doubt that too, nothing was related at all IIRC.
Is it a tendency in all of your games, or it was a single example?

Just a single game so far. I'll keep a look out for if it happens again; it might be that Kiev collapsed very early on, which meant the cities were never very developed and so were autorazed.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Just a single game so far. I'll keep a look out for if it happens again; it might be that Kiev collapsed very early on, which meant the cities were never very developed and so were autorazed.

Yeah, underdeveloped cities with low cultural value have bigger chance to be razed.
Still not a huge chance, even for those, so if that was the case you were unlucky with city razing.

 

[gilgames]

After some consideration I decided to leave the extra health instability from plagues.
It's not that severe after all - maximum -1 from each of your cities - and does feel more realistic this way.

With big empires it means from +20 to -10 in two turns, this in itself has other side-effects too, means you collapse though you were very solid....

 

[DC123456789]

What's the algorithm for determing what city declares independence if you're shaky or unstable? I've seen core cities declare independence fairly often, which obviously only exacerbates the situation and often leads to the civ collapsing.

 

[DC123456789]

Also, does Catholicism spread to North Africa a little too easily? I'm seeing a Catholic Morocco and Tunisia in my current game (and I do recall Tunisia being Catholic far too often in earlier versions).

Edit: Minor suggestion for notification of Catholics becoming Protestants in your cities when Orthodox: It seems that the Reformation among the schismatics has spread to [CITYNAME]. Much of the Catholic population there is now Protestant - not that it matters to us.

 

[AbsintheRed]

What's the algorithm for determing what city declares independence if you're shaky or unstable? I've seen core cities declare independence fairly often, which obviously only exacerbates the situation and often leads to the civ collapsing.

It's possible for your core cities to declare independence, but only if they have multiple problems (unhealth, unhappiness, no military presence, etc.)
When there is city secession, there is a list made from the potential cities, and it's a random chance which one is chosen.
Cities can go into this list multiple times. If a city is in an unstable area, it's added to the list 8-9 times by default, if in a contested area, 4-5 times.
If a city has stability problems (like I said above), it goes into the list once if it's in a core or historic province, and 3 or more times if it's in an unstable or contested province.

So the chance is rather small for core cities if there are multiple non-core ones.
Also core cities will never revolt if you maintain them perfectly, so I find this somewhat realistic this way.
But I admit, I was thinking a lot about totally excluding core cities if you have non-core cities in your empire. Still not sure if that would be better or not.

Also, does Catholicism spread to North Africa a little too easily? I'm seeing a Catholic Morocco and Tunisia in my current game (and I do recall Tunisia being Catholic far too often in earlier versions).

Yeah, it's very hard to balance religion spread with the current mechanics.
Tried to improve it countless times, but there are still problems, especially with Orthodoxy in the NE Europe and Christianity in NW Africa.
I'm afraid I will have to rewrite the spread mechanics eventually, to be based on provinces instead.

Edit: Minor suggestion for notification of Catholics becoming Protestants in your cities when Orthodox: It seems that the Reformation among the schismatics has spread to [CITYNAME]. Much of the Catholic population there is now Protestant - not that it matters to us.

Thanks!

 

[Baron03]

Yeah, it's very hard to balance religion spread with the current mechanics.
Tried to improve it countless times, but there are still problems, especially with Orthodoxy in the NE Europe and Christianity in NW Africa.
I'm afraid I will have to rewrite the spread mechanics eventually, to be based on provinces instead.

I thought the religion spread was already based on provinces.. Will the new company system be based on provinces? I'm assuming you'll finalize any new provinces before then.

 

[DC123456789]

It's possible for your core cities to declare independence, but only if they have multiple problems (unhealth, unhappiness, no military presence, etc.)
When there is city secession, there is a list made from the potential cities, and it's a random chance which one is chosen.
Cities can go into this list multiple times. If a city is in an unstable area, it's added to the list 8-9 times by default, if in a contested area, 4-5 times.
If a city has stability problems (like I said above), it goes into the list once if it's in a core or historic province, and 3 or more times if it's in an unstable or contested province.

So the chance is rather small for core cities if there are multiple non-core ones.
Also core cities will never revolt if you maintain them perfectly, so I find this somewhat realistic this way.
But I admit, I was thinking a lot about totally excluding core cities if you have non-core cities in your empire. Still not sure if that would be better or not.

I think that might be necessary, especially for the AI. It's not at all uncommon to have unhealthy cities in your core (which makes total sense for the time period), I guess makes core cities vulnerable. Losing cities often means losing resources which increases unhealthiness and unhappiness in other cities, which incurs more stability maluses; if it's a border/unstable city that declared independence that usually more than offsets the malus from it but if a core city revolts then then the stability situation just gets worse and the civ could collapse completely rather than an effective collapse to core that would probably make more sense (and is generally better for gameplay) in these situations.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I thought the religion spread was already based on provinces.. Will the new company system be based on provinces? I'm assuming you'll finalize any new provinces before then.

Indeed, and the rules for spreading specific companies will be very flexible.
Can be based on provinces, state religion, religions present in the city, resources available in the city, resources in the BFC of the city, and whatever else we can think about

I think that might be necessary, especially for the AI. It's not at all uncommon to have unhealthy cities in your core (which makes total sense for the time period), I guess makes core cities vulnerable. Losing cities often means losing resources which increases unhealthiness and unhappiness in other cities, which incurs more stability maluses; if it's a border/unstable city that declared independence that usually more than offsets the malus from it but if a core city revolts then then the stability situation just gets worse and the civ could collapse completely rather than an effective collapse to core that would probably make more sense (and is generally better for gameplay) in these situations.

Yeah, there is a chance that it will be necessary.
While I'm a little reluctant to remove the chance altogether, that's still way better than having too many city secessions in core areas.
As a next step, I will exclude health instability from cities in core and historic areas.
I'm curious whether it helps or not.

 

[Eric Cartmenez]

Colonies seems to be mismatched in 1.4 ... in my French game I build Cuba, according to Colony advisor I have Brazil which is not true.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Colonies seems to be mismatched in 1.4 ... in my French game I build Cuba, according to Colony advisor I have Brazil which is not true.

Yeah, thanks for the report.
It's already fixed in my version (someone also noticed it a couple days ago), will be up in the SVN tonight.
I'm thinking about releasing a 1.4.1 version for the mod, as in the last couple days I fixed some other smaller bugs as well.
None of them is gamebreaking, so not sure if it's necessary.

 

[gilgames]

Can sby explain how the inflation work game-wise? Idk and sometimes it slips out of controll, how can you keep it low?

 

[gilgames]

Obviously no

But I wanted to share a result of AI willingness to attack indies:



Its on the same turn, spain dead for a while ago.

 

[Force44]

@Gilgames

Well I'd love to tell you how it works exactly if I only knew how.

For me it isn't much of a problem sofar and I consider it a (n economic) handicap that gets bigger every turn because your economy grows approximately every turn.

How did you manage to get those nice pictures exactly though?

Did you press some kind of button ingame to get a screenshot?
If so, where were those screenshots saved?
And how did you manage to show them on the forum?

 

[Arcangelus]

About the inflation, you may want to read this:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=169521

But in short: is a mechanic to counter the ever increasing income of the player. The formula is:
Inflation %=(Game Turn-Offset) x Difficulty Factor
Inflation cost=Other Costs x Inflation %

 

[Force44]

Word of caution: When reading the thread about inflation, stick to the information considering the game.
About everything I read on the first page considering inflation in RL is plain wrong.

 

[El Bogus]

How did you manage to get those nice pictures exactly though?

Did you press some kind of button ingame to get a screenshot?
If so, where were those screenshots saved?
And how did you manage to show them on the forum?

On your keyboard there's a "Print" button. It should be right next to the F1 - F12 buttons.

Spoiler :

On my (German) keyboard, it says "Druck", so maybe it's in your native tongue, too. On some keyboard, it seems to be shortened to "PrtScr".
If you press that button in Civ4 a screenshot is created in "your user name"\Documents\My Games\beyond the sword\ScreenShots. If you press shift+print, a pop-up let's you name the screenshot.
(This button creates a screenshot anytime you press it by the way, but it is saved in the clipboard. So you have to paste it in (for example) MS Paint.)

If you click on "Go Advanced" when creating a post you can scroll down and attach a file ("Manage Attachments" button). If that file is an image it is shown like in Gilgames post.

 

[Force44]

A litte more feedback.

Kiev is in a similar predicament to france (before French catholization) for Kiev spawns its capitol with orthodoxy yet its civics with despotism, tribal law, tribalism, decentralization, paganism, subjugation and no state religion.

Likewise the Danes start with the same (basic starting) civics, but they already have better civics available at the start.

England is a bit more serious case.
When I hold London (and York) before the flip and I let them flip peacefully they start with no techs whatsoever and only the units they received from the cityflip.

 

[Swarbs]

England is a bit more serious case.
When I hold London (and York) before the flip and I let them flip peacefully they start with no techs whatsoever and only the units they received from the cityflip.

I've just seen the same thing in a Polish game - captured Twangste and when it flipped to the Prussians they started with no techs.

Could be something to do with an existing city being destroyed on spawn - London and Konigsberg are both removed by the spawn and have to be refounded with a settler IIRC.